US lab validates Padang IS older than the Giza pyramid 14,000 BC

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posted on Nov, 5 2012 @ 02:43 AM
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Andi reportedly believes Indonesia was inhabited by people with sophisticated technology after he found much evidence beneath the land and sea around Sumatra, Java and Bali. Yudhoyono has given his support to the project. 

Who were these people with "sophisticated technology" at that time, in Indonesia? And, of course, what happened to them?

Fascinating to think that advanced technology and culture may have actually been widespread at that time, in civilizations all over the world. I just keep coming back to the question: what happened to them?

And will it happen again?




posted on Nov, 5 2012 @ 02:52 AM
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this is great news. With every discovery the plug old and traditional archeology has placed on the time line of earth and human history is removed, ever so slightly....lol

Really though. It is great. I wish I could fast forward to the point when all the history books get rewritten CORRECTLY, if ever.


edit on 5-11-2012 by manykapao because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 5 2012 @ 03:17 AM
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Great stuff slayer. I have always wondered whether civilisations existed back in neolithic times before metal use. The great cities in South America were built without the use of iron or bronze and this discovery makes me think that the American Indians knew how to build cities before they arrived in the Americas. What does everyone think about this theory?



posted on Nov, 5 2012 @ 03:28 AM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 




Thanks for this update, the core samples were taken from considerable depths were scans show the possible subterranan chamber, which contained charcoal and also a fill of fine sand not natural to the mountain..



Any natural material buried between three and 12 meters under the surface should have been millions of years in age, Budianto said.

The fact that the material beneath Mount Padang is relatively young indicates that it probably is man-made.



Hopefully this will help get the permission to excavate this feature.



posted on Nov, 5 2012 @ 03:57 AM
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reply to post by Kantzveldt
 

I wonder why it has not excavated yet ! who knows maybe Hobbits made that !!

Although the skeleton found on Flores dated from 18,000 years ago it is believed that these small humans (Hobbits) were alive and active on the island until approximately 12,000 years ago.
ancientstandard.com...

edit on 5-11-2012 by maes2 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 5 2012 @ 04:56 AM
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reply to post by maes2
 



The first stage of their investigations was extensive scanning of the entire mountain structure, which gave rise to the indications of a subterranean chamber with a passageway leading down to it some 12 metres or so beneath the present surface, earlier this year they took the core samples from that area, so it's only recently that there is the indication that there might be something needing to be excavated.


Given the depth required to be excavated and the protected historic value of the site, planning, funding and permission will take time



posted on Nov, 5 2012 @ 07:39 AM
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I don't know what dating methods you guys trust in, but the method
I prefer is Alien Dating.

Basically we have aliens bust out their holographic records database
and show us exactly when it happened including visuals showing how they did it.

Too soon? Bad joke? Hehehe



posted on Nov, 5 2012 @ 07:52 AM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 


people won't admit it but they love this picture and caption



posted on Nov, 5 2012 @ 07:56 AM
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reply to post by reject
 


I will happily admit it. I am a meme-aholic. This meme in particular tickles me. I guess it is my time on ATS....

...i also enjoy the Carl Sagan meme's. Especially the "mind blown" one.

RE: the OP....is this an independant government? I.E: the chinese don't control it?

I find it very strange that all the southasian pyramids were covered by Earth. Like they were covered over on purpose.



posted on Nov, 5 2012 @ 08:12 AM
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Originally posted by thesmokingman
Carbon dating has proven itself to not be a very accurate dating measure.
Two Points...
1) Carbon dating has progressed a wee bit since the 50s. Since you are seeking new knowledge regarding human endeavour, you might like to equip yourself with current knowledge on the topic of dating techniques.
2) One date is no date.



posted on Nov, 5 2012 @ 08:21 AM
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reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 


It is Indonesia - the most volcanically active place on the planet and also host to several of the largest eruptions ever to be witnessed by man. For that reason alone, the fact these were covered over doesn't surprise me. Even if not covered with volcanic material, it is entirely plausible that an eruption in the past could have rendered the area uninhabitable for a period of time, allowing the earth and vegetation to accumulate.

Most other places on earth i would have been in agreement with your point, just not in Indonesia.



posted on Nov, 5 2012 @ 08:24 AM
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Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 


It is Indonesia - the most volcanically active place on the planet and also host to several of the largest eruptions ever to be witnessed by man. For that reason alone, the fact these were covered over doesn't surprise me. Even if not covered with volcanic material, it is entirely plausible that an eruption in the past could have rendered the area uninhabitable for a period of time, allowing the earth and vegetation to accumulate.

Most other places on earth i would have been in agreement with your point, just not in Indonesia.


I would believe that Occam requires me to agree with you on this.



posted on Nov, 5 2012 @ 09:35 AM
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Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
.
2) One date is no date.


YEP



---------------------------------------------------------------------




It is Indonesia - the most volcanically active place on the planet and also host to several of the largest eruptions ever to be witnessed by man. For that reason alone, the fact these were covered over doesn't surprise me. Even if not covered with volcanic material, it is entirely plausible that an eruption in the past could have rendered the area uninhabitable for a period of time, allowing the earth and vegetation to accumulate.



double YEP

edit on 5/11/12 by Hanslune because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 5 2012 @ 09:52 AM
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I believe that our history is a big fat lie. I believe that other civilizations have risen and fallen more times than we will ever know. TPTB want us to believe the evolution lie and believe that our current civilization is the most most advanced that has ever lived. not to throw a monkey wrench into the conversation but I ran across this article a few months ago about carbon dating:

news.discovery.com...

Here is a snip:

When probing the deepest reaches of the Cosmos or magnifying our understanding of the quantum world, a whole host of mysteries present themselves. This is to be expected when pushing our knowledge of the Universe to the limit.

But what if a well-known -- and apparently constant -- characteristic of matter starts behaving mysteriously?

This is exactly what has been noticed in recent years; the decay rates of radioactive elements are changing. This is especially mysterious as we are talking about elements with "constant" decay rates -- these values aren't supposed to change. School textbooks teach us this from an early age.

WATCH VIDEO: A solar eruption sends a wave of plasma hurtling towards Earth on Aug. 1, 2010. The event was captured by NASA satellites.

This is the conclusion that researchers from Stanford and Purdue University have arrived at, but the only explanation they have is even weirder than the phenomenon itself: The sun might be emitting a previously unknown particle that is meddling with the decay rates of matter. Or, at the very least, we are seeing some new physics.



posted on Nov, 5 2012 @ 09:56 AM
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Originally posted by summerbreeze.ddp
TPTB want us to believe the evolution lie and believe that our current civilization is the most most advanced that has ever lived.
Fabulous! Show me some proof, and I'll carry that banner with you!



posted on Nov, 5 2012 @ 10:24 AM
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Originally posted by summerbreeze.ddp
I believe that our history is a big fat lie. I believe that other civilizations have risen and fallen more times than we will ever know. TPTB want us to believe the evolution lie and believe that our current civilization is the most most advanced that has ever lived. not to throw a monkey wrench into the conversation but I ran across this article a few months ago about carbon dating:


....and why would you believe that? The archaeological record shows no such civilizations....and our civilization, and the past ones we know about, leave massive archaeological footprints - why would these others be invisible?



But what if a well-known -- and apparently constant -- characteristic of matter starts behaving mysteriously?

This is exactly what has been noticed in recent years; the decay rates of radioactive elements are changing. This is especially mysterious as we are talking about elements with "constant" decay rates -- these values aren't supposed to change. School textbooks teach us this from an early age.


This has been noted before but this is the first time a theory has been made to explain the difference, C-14 dates and why they vary from other methods of dating as been known for some time that is why they are calibrated, ie with sediments, tree rings, or TL (Thermoluminescence)

As noted below


Dates may be expressed as either uncalibrated or calibrated years (the latter abbreviated as cal or cal.). A raw BP date cannot be used directly as a calendar date, because the level of atmospheric 14C has not been strictly constant during the span of time that can be radiocarbon dated. The level is affected by variations in the cosmic ray intensity which is in turn affected by variations in the Earth's magnetosphere.[18] In addition, there are substantial reservoirs of carbon in organic matter, the ocean, ocean sediments (see methane hydrate), and sedimentary rocks. Changes in the Earth's climate can affect the carbon flows between these reservoirs and the atmosphere, leading to changes in the atmosphere's 14C fraction.

As the graph to the right shows, the uncalibrated, raw BP date underestimates the actual age by 3000 years at 15000 BP. The underestimation generally runs about 10% to 20%, with 3% of that underestimation attributable to the use of 5568 years as the half-life of 14C instead of the more accurate 5730 years. To maintain consistency with a large body of published research, the out-of-date half-life figure is still used in all radiocarbon measurements.[19]

The uncalibrated radiocarbon date (abbreviated as 14C yr BP) is often used in academic publications, because it is the firm result of a repeatable experiment. The translation to a calibrated, or calendar date (cal yr BP) is less precise, especially where the calibration curve flattens out, making one raw date correspond to a range of calibrated dates. The calibration curve is continuously being refined on the basis of new data gathered from tree rings, coral, etc.

Aside from changes due to natural processes, the level has also been affected by human activities. From the beginning of the industrial revolution in the 18th century to the 1950s, the fractional level of 14C decreased because of the admixture of large quantities of CO2 into the atmosphere, due to the excavated oil reserves and combustion production of fossil fuel. This decline is known as the Suess effect, and also affects the 13C isotope. However, atmospheric 14C was almost doubled during the 1950s and 1960s due to atmospheric atomic bomb tests.[20]
.


From the wiki on Radiocarbon dating

edit on 5/11/12 by Hanslune because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 5 2012 @ 11:00 AM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 

I think this is manufactured news from several sites.

First...

This year, a research team of presidential adviser Andi Arief claimed to have detected man-made structures beneath the pyramid-shaped Mount Padang in Cianjur, West Java.

Andi said these structures were proof of an ancient civilization on Java, dating back thousands of years. A group of archeologists and geologists are still investigating the site. www.thejakartaglobe.com...


So it's been found not by geologists or archaeologists, but by a "presidential adviser."

The only news on this just repeats that news.

HOWEVER, there is a known megalithic site (first recorded in 1914) that just recently was confirmed to be around 6500 years old (according to Wikipedia... with photos) The Wikipedia article has some problems, including some optimistic assumptions that aren't linked to any scholarly articles.

The Indonesian government's site probably represents the more accurate view.

I will note that there's been a sudden rush of "pyramid spotters" which seems to be based on the idea that "a pyramid is the most sophisticated structure ever" (an idea not supported by any engineer or architect) and attempts to declare the mountain to be Yet Another Pyramid.

So... I think the news article as stands may be a bit misleading. They may be talking about the dating of Gunung Padang and yes there's underground chambers. It would be an exciting dating, because that's just a few thousand years later than Gobekli Tepe... and yes, very plausible.



posted on Nov, 5 2012 @ 11:17 AM
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This is the comparison result from both labs :

Indonesia’s National Nucleur Board (BATAN) Lab:
1. The date of soil mantle close to the surface (60 cm beneath the surface) is around 600 BC
2. The date of sand-grits layer in the depth of 3-4 metres is 4700 BC which is older
3. The date of sand filling in the depth of 8-10 metres is around 11.600 BC. It’s even older

Beta Analytic Lab, Miami FL :
1. The date of soil layer in the depth of 4 m, assumed as man-made structure in the form of sand filed chambers (8-10 metres depth) under the 5th terrace (see the pics) is estimated around 7600 -7800 SM
2. The date of soil layer in the depth of 5 -12 m, is estimated around 14500-25000 BC

Both of the labs used the same samples. BATAN took 200 gram samples while its Miami’s counterpart analyzed only 3 gram. The question why the gap years are pretty wide 11.600 BC : 14.500 BC??

From what I heard..the government of indonesia has done a rather a minimum effort regarding the protection of those archeological sites plus most Indonesians are unaware the significance of the site. Indonesia has been known to be the home of hundreds or thousands ancient temples but most of those fascinating structures now remains merely as tourist attraction sites. Several inscription stones, statues and reliefs are often missing or stolen. The local government there has decided to make this as another tourist site even though the site origin hasn’t been completely investigated and even reconstructed. People can easily access the site, walk around, trample the ground and picknicking…it’s just like you open a camping ground on stonehenge sigh...














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edit on 5-11-2012 by corpse because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 5 2012 @ 11:31 AM
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reply to post by corpse
 


Thanks Corpse for the information

I presume you are a Bahasa speaker?



posted on Nov, 5 2012 @ 11:43 AM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating
If 20 years ago anyone would have said there is a pyramid-like structure that is some 16 000 years old they would have laughed you off as a kook.


That's exactly the point. Every few years they push back the timeline of early development and in between we keep hearing there was nothing before XYZ. Then they find locations such as this or in turkey......





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