Brace Yourselves! Americans Aged 18-29 Have A More Favorable Response To Socialism Than To Capitali

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman
reply to post by ModernAcademia

 

What is their definition of socialism?

Govt. takes care of you
Many of them don't think or care where the money comes from
They don't understand it comes from the people, including low-income families
They don't understand that govt. has no money, it just takes it from the people
They don't understand the dangers associated with this

To define socialism is a lesson in futility. There are exactly as many definitions of socialism as there are socialist.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


I wonder about the strains of socialism this age group & others had in mind. (Side note: anachro syndicalism is the only offshoot--make that admixture-type thing I'm familiar with that seeks to establish a genuinely new kind of political economy. If there is another I am unfamiliar with it.) Besides anachro syndicalism, socialism of the types I'm familiar with maintain Marx's original principle of surplus-value, which if nothing else is socialism's core argument against capitalism.

Are these groups familiar with socialism's political economic theory? I have my doubts. But I strongly agree with this point that Antonia made:

The reason socialism is coming in vogue again is because of the economic turmoil in this country. When things get bad the extremes on all sides take over. It happened in the Great Depression (with Communism and Fascism) and it's happening again. It will fade away and nothing will come of it.

Since many Americans will call Socialism at the drop of a hat, such a poll means nothing to me.

It could be
"Are you for public school at elementary level?"
"Yes"
*o-kkaay.... "for socialism"- check....."

What is so funny to me is to hear comments about the concept of young people traditionaly leaning more towards "socialism" and becoming more conservative with age(which is true, always has been),
Is the commentary of the type "Do they really want to work for the government? They want a free ride!'

I think that is such a huge misunderstanding (but probably a purposeful one).

Young people want to BE the government, they want to take part in it, they want to influence it. Living in a country that is more socialist than the US (it is capitalist, but on a sliding scale, in comparision...) that is what I see. A large percentage of my village are officially government employees- but they are the ones making choices everyday. The government is NOT a small handful of extremely rich men- nor one man viewed as responsible for every thing that happens in the country.
The government is regular people like me, and they make their decisions with experiencial knowledge of what it is like for us normal people and what our concerns are.

That is the idealistic dreams young people have- a government of the people, for the people.

By the time they get older, they don't want that responsibility anymore, they'd rather just be concerned with themself and let someone else carry the responsibility and the blame.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


i am 18 years old and i see that because of corporations country bordesr don't matter worth a crap and because of capitalism hotels in new york hike up there rates to make money off victims of a disaster. maybe im naive to American propaganda call it what you will but capitalism is not right. period.

Horrible news regarding the youth!

So what is the end result the absence of this many many small businesses around the country with many jobs everywhere due to it's decentralized nature? Well centralized monopolies with high prices due to next to no competition as we will increasingly see come true with lousy service.

Who cares if you don't like their services/products when they are the only ones offering it?
Who cares what products/services you like when the Baby Boomers have siphoned off all the wealth from BOTH their parents AND their children. It's not like you can buy anything anyways...so what the hell difference does it make? Although...it must be nice to have been born during the greatest economic boom that the world has ever seen so that you can still be concerned about trifling matters like what kind of "service" you're getting.

Eventually you'll have super rich individuals owning their own competition giving the high-priced illusion of comepition.
Then the people will demand regulation and oversight!

Eventually, huh? Where have you been?

Then companies will lobby and pay donations to certain political candidates and after they are elected they will have former execs from these big corporations being appointed to head of newly formed regulatory/oversight commitees, sometimes even being czars of said service/product.

Only until the Baby Boomers finally die off. American generations previously were not so selfish that they would become traitors to their own people for a few bucks. We just need to end Medicare and Social Security and use that money to fund healthcare and schools for the younger generations to help speed up the process a little.

Redistibution of wealth, where the REDISTIBRUTOR is the most corrupt and bought entity in the nation.

Well...it depends how you look at it. Our government has a few problems...but they are easily rectified in the absence of the 'Boomers. In the mid-90's the WWII Generation finally tossed you guys the keys to the country. Bill Clinton was in the White House, Newt was the Speaker of the House, and 'Boomers were in the C-level positions of pretty much every major corporation in America. They left you a country with ZERO enemies, and the finest infrastructure, health care system, educational system, financial markets, and manufacturing facilities that had EVER EXISTED ON PLANET EARTH.

...and look what happened. Almost immediately the entire political discussion became dominated by the 'Boomer fetish of how their fellow Americans are using their genitals and in less than 10 years every single one of those institutions was in trouble. Within 20 years...every one was DESTROYED. The united states now ranks 50th in infant mortality. 50th!!!!

I can't believe what is happening, the continent is going insane!
Because both Canada and the U.S. is starting to have such young people.

No...they aren't insane. The 'Boomer greed has simply left them no choice. An old person gets their social security and medicare no matter how rich...and there is a huge movement afoot to preserve THAT...whilst simultaneously denying a young person health care no matter how poor.

And you are surprised that young people think socialism is looking pretty good?? It's not a philosophical choice...it's choice for their own survival. If you don't like it...vote in a candidate who will correct these imbalances and pay your employees better. Especially the younger ones who are better educated, more intelligent, and far more technically savvy that you are. Your sheer numbers mean you have the ability to swing an election more so than we ever could.

Although for the record...I'm personally not so much "for socialism" as I am "against baby boomers". Rather than determine tax rates off of income, I'm more in favor of determining them off year of birth and simply seizing lots and lots of assets from the Baby Boomers and redistributing them to better people...that's just my opinion and what I would like to see in a perfect world.

Originally posted by Bluesma
Young people want to BE the government, they want to take part in it, they want to influence it. Living in a country that is more socialist than the US (it is capitalist, but on a sliding scale, in comparision...) that is what I see. A large percentage of my village are officially government employees- but they are the ones making choices everyday. The government is NOT a small handful of extremely rich men- nor one man viewed as responsible for every thing that happens in the country.
The government is regular people like me, and they make their decisions with experiencial knowledge of what it is like for us normal people and what our concerns are.

So, people want to get into the government so they can control everyone else that is in government, which is everyone else in the country. Everyone just constantly vying for control over everyone else. The entire population is there to serve the government and the people that work in the government.

It is living every day with everyone else’s nose stuck up your a$$.

That is a stagnated society. It is a living quagmire. It is how nations die.

By the time they get older, they don't want that responsibility anymore, they'd rather just be concerned with themself and let someone else carry the responsibility and the blame.

Or, maybe they finally come to the realization that everyone around them has lost their freaking mind, and they get the heck out of dodge while the getting is good!

Originally posted by coreytheconspirator
reply to post by ModernAcademia

 

i am 18 years old and i see that because of corporations country bordesr don't matter worth a crap and because of capitalism hotels in new york hike up there rates to make money off victims of a disaster. maybe im naive to American propaganda call it what you will but capitalism is not right. period.

No...you are correct.

You see...it's different when your a 'boomer and have not ever had a serious problem in the world to contend with as a generation. Remember...THEIR Mommy & Daddy's were "The Greatest Generation" of WWII. The Baby Boomers never had THEIR school budgets cut because the grown-ups were whining about their taxes. THEIR parents built them brand-new schools and subsidized them so that they either free or dirt cheap to go to so that they wouldn't be burdened with excessive debt when they graduated. The Baby Boomers never had to worry about going to a Dr. because their WWII-era parents weren't too cheap to pay their employees a decent wage and benefits. THEIR parents thought the idea of employee slaves in sweat shops overseas before employing their own fellow Americans was unpatriotic.

...but of course they did. Those WWII-era parents were little kids during the Great Depression. They weren't a bunch of spoiled, self-righteous, obnoxious, little brats trying to build some kind of silly utopian society in which there are no taxes, no obligations to your fellow humans (even your own children), where unicorns exist.

Don't let them fool you. They are just being selfish. Please remember that as they age into irrelevance when they start whining for their nursing homes to free just like everything else in their entire lifetimes.

Originally posted by Bluesma

The government is NOT a small handful of extremely rich men- nor one man viewed as responsible for every thing that happens in the country.
The government is regular people like me, and they make their decisions with experiencial knowledge of what it is like for us normal people and what our concerns are.

That is the idealistic dreams young people have- a government of the people, for the people.

Thank you for pointing out this fundamental difference between the US and most EU states. Nicely said.
There is something extremely deep rooted in Americans, seeing "the government" as an entity which is detached from the people, if not as "the enemy". Sidenote, this is ONE MAIN reason why eg. conspiracy theories are mostly common (and originating) from the US - where there is always "the government" seen as the evil entity on one side and the common folk on another.

What Americans not understand, that in MOST European countries, the separation between government and "the people" is not as perceived as in the US. While we have corrupt and bad politicians (of course we do as well!)...:Europeans do NOT (always) see "the government" as an entity first which needs to be fought, there is a much greater symbiosis of the common people and the government.

Yes, the government is quite often like "regular people"....in all likelihood, public interests are more represented within our governments.

If one understands this way of thinking and that it is entirely different how people in the US see their government, it becomes also clear why it only takes a word like "socialism" for Americans to freak out

Originally posted by Bluesma
Since many Americans will call Socialism at the drop of a hat, such a poll means nothing to me.

It could be
"Are you for public school at elementary level?"
"Yes"
*o-kkaay.... "for socialism"- check....."

LOL.
Geez? Just "for socialism" on that? I thought schoolchildren and their teachers were the new al-queda these days?? I would expect more foaming at the mouth and spitting the word "MARXIST!!" than simply checking the appropriate box.

Originally posted by randomname
as long as capitalists keep exploiting people to further accumulate wealth, people will be thrown to socialism.

case in point, warren buffet one of the top 3 richest men in history, pays is secretary $60,000 a year, because that's what he believes a secretary is worth.

the fact is, there is no law on what you can pay somebody and you can't base it on what they are doing either.

he could easily pay her $200,000 and change her family and her life for the better.

after you made your fortune, give back to the people who helped make it possible.

if absolutely no one worked for bill gates, no matter how much he offered in salary, microsoft wouldn't exist and he wouldn't be one of the richest people in the world.

Yep. And you know what the REALLY sad part is? Warren Buffet is the exception. The norm would be to try to get away with paying that secretary $28,000/yr and screw her out her health insurance at the first possible opportunity....probably be bribing a couple of Senators to vote for some new bill with at title like "Healthcare Freedom For All" which offers a tax incentive for every employee that let die in the streets or some such thing.

...and then people sit around and wonder why Socialism looks like a pretty good deal to a whole lot of people.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by links234

 

Coal? Coal miners?? You really want to go there?

No, coal miner didn't fire themselves or get layed off by choice. It took that man following through on those statements and doing precisely what he said he'd do.......to so badly damage the Coal industry and those states that SO greatly depend on it. You don't even want to go into what post-election EPA planning looks like. This has been a nice 4 years for the Coal Miners.

By the way... You use the term Rich like it's profanity. Can you define that? I grossed over $200,000 a year when I owned my own truck. Was I rich? Farmers around here are sitting on millions in property, stock, animals and equipment taken together for family worth. it's not hard to accumulate. Are they rich? I hear that term..and it grates. badly. Rich is a term of class warfare, not describing a group of human beings. Not without definition anyway.

yeah...I don't think you need to concern yourself about anybody mistaking you for being "rich". I'm pretty sure your safe from that label.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


If you are not a liberal by the time you are 20 you have no heart. And if you are not a conservative by the time you are 30 you have no brains.


Take a good hard look at all of the old liberals and tell me what you see. They are all idealistic searchers looking for faith in anything. They tend to go were the wind takes them. The ironic part is they tend to know what is best for everyone else around them accept for themselves.



I think all of the progressive liberals should do a little learning about the roots of the progressive movement. To bad they would rather talk the talk then walk the walk. Maybe if a strong breeze blew it to them.

Originally posted by Mr Tranny


So, people want to get into the government so they can control everyone else that is in government, which is everyone else in the country. Everyone just constantly vying for control over everyone else. The entire population is there to serve the government and the people that work in the government.

It is living every day with everyone else’s nose stuck up your a$$.

That is a stagnated society. It is a living quagmire. It is how nations die.

That doesn't even make sense. Nobody can control "everyone else".

Many young people today do not have that same narcisisstic limited focus. Actually serving your fellow man, cooperating together to build and sustain ones community and society, is valuable to them.
It is quite common that young adults feel the desire to serve and be concerned with something other than their own butt. Being part of a bigger purpose feels meaningful.

That is NOT how nations die. Nations die when everyone cares only about themself and the best they'll do for their people is send their young to be killed for it. Just watch how that causes a nation to fall and die.....

reply to post by flexy123


Absolutely, you said it very well. It is very very hard for Americans to even grasp this concept and stop makign a distinction between "the people" and "the government".

Which is very surprising, considering the wording of the American constitution...! Somewhere, the idea got lost.

But as an american that moved to Europe, I know I had trouble digesting this myself, I had never been exposed to that concept before then.

reply to post by schuyler


l strongly agree with the notion that most socialists are just plain out lazy people who want a free ride. As an African l have gotten to realize that our continent is falling behind as people depend so much on the government instead of taking risks, there are more teachers, nurses and cops not to mention the Big government than entrepreneurs. Some even want GOD to take care of them, do not get me wrong l am a Christian but come on, you got to eat the sweat of your labor right? Capitalism is fine if it were to be purely capitalism instead it is mixed which creates unfairness as big government creates monopolies.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


What if this has been the plan since the beginning from the elitists? Force a system (capitalism) which is doomed to fail but can last a handful of generations, while making them more money and powerful, to then push for a different system (socialism) which would be an answer to the young but in reality push the economy in the ground and leave these same youngster destitute of everything and without any future prospects? Sure they would rebel but with what, sticks and bricks? How does that measure up to the taser, pepper spray, batons, rubber bullets, water canons and countless other 'defense' tools the 'authorities' have at their disposal?

Just my two cents.

reply to post by Fortunael


In the country I am in, I am also very outspoken against the socialists here.

But when it comes to the US, the people and ideas they are usually calling "socialist" has nothing to do with the ones we have here!

France's right wing is America's liberals.

This is where I think it matters to consider what people are actually refering to when they use that term.......

Originally posted by Mr Tranny
Life is not fair. It never will be.
Do not dismiss the wisdom of your elders. They were not stupid. They went through the same social struggles you are going through. They also made the wrong choices and suffered the consequences. They learned their lesson and fixed their mistakes. Don’t look back and say that they were just heartless for what they finally done and ignore the lessons of the past. Don’t repeat their mistakes.

And if you think I have a cruel or insensitive view of the world…. Well, based on that old saying at the beginning of my post about the liberal/conservative, heart/brain thing. I guess I have no heart. Because I was never a liberal.

So your are saying people turn to conservatism while growing old because, they want for other people to eat the same s*** that they did. They don't want other people to have it easier since THEY suffered to get what they have.

Well that view is a pathetic, under-evolved and is based on jealousy.
You might have no heart well, I hope I never have a head.

Soo much stupid in thi thread in in our youth.. It's enough to make me move to the woods for good. You all are sewing the seeds of your downfall. Utter fools! All of you!

that is true only because people at that age like the idea of someone taking over for their parents in caring for them.

Also, the evils people associate with capitalism, are done so ignorantly. What we see as the evils of the current system are in fact aspects of CORPORITISM. Big difference.

In capitalism a bad business that cannot compete because of poor quality products or services, poor productivity by mistreating employees, customers, communities ect. is left to run out of business and be replaced by a viable business that offers better services and products. When the government bails you out and gives you public subsidy for private profit (free enterprise) you see a form of SOCIALISM where the government interferes with the natural cycle of the market.

Government regulates business in capitalism, it does not save it from poor business practices. The whole concept of "too big to fail" is a borrow over from socialism where vital parts of industry are wed to government creating stagnation, which is only curable by public tax money being funneled into private hands. That is not capitalism.

These kids are being miss led in many cases, or are too lazy to check what they support. They would see that capitalism is in decline and socialism with all sorts of public spending on private enterprises is on the rise. That is age old socialism.

Corporatism is an adaptation, rather underhandedly of socialism in modern day capitalism. The paranoia and hate fueled against capitalism is all propaganda by socialist states that want to see the world better reflect their system.

I should add that socialism is just a failed venture on borrowed time as well. The colonies fed Europe and allowed a life style they were not producing enough to keep realistically. When the colonies stopped sending tribute they started borrowing on future money and in so doing pushed the world into similar practices, since it allows for greater debt.

Really socialism has been more destructive in terms of finance then communism and outright dictatorships. It has accomplished more than any of those systems allowed. It also has demonized capitalism in the process.

How about if you earn it you get it. If not, you don't. Period.

Another suggestion, make money have an actual worth. The world bank might not like it, but in the US we always liked it, and until relatively recently kept a gold standard which we only abandoned by external pressure on our leadership. Like the installation of the federal reserve, modeled after Europe with "responsible men" over seeing a nations money behind the scenes and in "good faith"...private hands controlling public money.