Brace Yourselves! Americans Aged 18-29 Have A More Favorable Response To Socialism Than To Capitali

Originally posted by DestroyDestroyDestroy
reply to post by schuyler

 

The idea of "We" before "I" isn't a bad one.

That is what the cowhand tells the cattle as he is leading them into the slaughter house.

reply to post by boymonkey74

In fairness.... Capitalism and Oligarchy aren't the same thing either....but we're still called Capitalist in the United States today and people still point to this nightmare to say Capitalism doesn't work. I haven't seen anything like real capitalism since somewhere in the latter years of Clinton....and it's gotten further and further away every year. Even that wasn't all that close anymore.

So.. This is to everyone who seems to love Socialism. I've heard so many say this same thing. 'We' that disagree "just don't get it" or "don't understand".

Okay, fair enough. Help people like me understand then. Point to the nation on Earth today where the system exists we should change ours to become more like. Which one should we look to for what has worked? I hope NO ONE is thinking we just strike out to uncharted waters and give it a 'whirl'. National destruction lay down that path of trial and error.

So..seriously.. Outside of Scandinavia (which I noted..works but would never work on a scale orders of magnitude beyond their small nations) which system today or even recent history is not just kinda better...but Superior to what America was before Bush got to us and Obama finished the job?

That's the way it should be.

Just play the game Monopoly. Sure, one person feels great at the end...everyone else has a pretty deep resentment of what had just occurred.

Originally posted by links234
That's the way it should be.

Just play the game Monopoly. Sure, one person feels great at the end...everyone else has a pretty deep resentment of what had just occurred.

Yes. Life is about individual achievement and success. Any society that equates success and achievement with negativity is one that will fail rapidly. Look out the window.
Oh yeah, that's the fault of "rich people"...

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by ModernAcademia
* Side Note

Scandinavian socialism works wonderfully, apparently. Those people love it, so I hear. I've also heard their politicians freely admit that what works beautifully for a nation their size and of like minded people (well..used to be

) would never work for a nation of 330 million who have about 50 million different concepts of how things should work. I happen to believe they're 100% right, too.

That's the most important point to make, socialism comes in different forms and a lot of people seem to mistake USSR communism (everything has to be shared, nobody should be above others, the government is in charge of everything, etc.) and nowadays european socialism.
The latter mix up a liberal view of the economy & market and basic social rights (healthcare, welfare, unions, etc.). I'd also say that most socialists countries don't have a "death sentence" policy.

Originally posted by boymonkey74
I wish people would try and understand socialism and communism are not the same thing...
2nd...

This is 2012
That's what most responses in this thread doesn't get

People say.. Don't you know what socialism is?
That's not the point

Today's youth have no idea or interest in what you are saying
They are for facades
So your points are moot

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I've heard this argument before so I'll ask; what if the exact same systems were implemented in all 50 states? Would that not be small scale just as it is in Scandinavia...if that works, then why not implement similiar systems nationwide, relegating appropriate powers to the states, strengthening unions...or regulations to the point that unions aren't even needed?

Why do we say, 'that only works if X, Y, Z?' There are plenty of people that live in these 'socialist' nations that agree with some of your viewpoints, but hardly any of them would sacrifice their social safety nets in favor of what we have.

Originally posted by Hefficide

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Eventually you'll have super rich individuals owning their own competition giving the high-priced illusion of comepition.
Then the people will demand regulation and oversight!
Then companies will lobby and pay donations to certain political candidates and after they are elected they will have former execs from these big corporations being appointed to head of newly formed regulatory/oversight commitees, sometimes even being czars of said service/product.

Maybe I missed something here. But eventually???

That is EXACTLY what we've had since about 1980. People don't want socialism at all. They want an end to unrestrained corporatism and oligarchy masquerading as "capitalism"
~Heff

Couldn't have put it better myself.

Capitalism is a myth. As long as corporations are able to manipulate their markets, pay off elected officials with "donations" (read BRIBES) and politicians have a vested interest in keeping a corporation or bankers happy, there will never be real capitalism, or socialism either.

If we actually needed any proof that capitalism was a lie, that proof was delivered when your government bailed out the first failed business. Bailing out of private business or bankers is not capitalism.

To put it in layman's terms, America is socialism for the rich, capitalism for the poor, and a corporatocracy running the show.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

This is 2012
That's what most responses in this thread doesn't get

People say.. Don't you know what socialism is?
That's not the point

Today's youth have no idea or interest in what you are saying
They are for facades
So your points are moot

I would put this quote in my top ten for this year.

You are absolutely spot on.

The rest is just feel good drivel, not wanting to face the truth.

reply to post by links234

Which of those systems your talking about would you want to see implemented and how would that go about being done in the modern America? I know these systems from reading about them.....studying them...then passing go/no-go tests based on that. I'm wondering if you know them that well. You answered my question with a question and cited precisely those nations I already noted their own politicians have said in past years carry a system not likely to work in nations far different from their own.

So.. Okay, if we're going to make a square peg fit down a round hole. I'd like to hear your thoughts on how the Corptocracy/Oligarchy we currently live under transitions to that of Northern European Socialism? It doesn't 'just happen'...so you've thought about this some, right?

* In terms of European Socialism as a whole?? Our system may be failing (and it is) but go ask Spain, Greece, Portugal, Italy and Germany how that E.U. and Euro-Socialist system is working out? All but Germany are near or beyond destroyed by it right now with the E.U. being all that holds them up now at all. Germany is in the position of being looked to as a savior they are NOT going to be. This is the last system on Earth I'd ever want to model ourselves after, given how we are watching it fall to pieces right along side our own. Double Down on Failure?

reply to post by BobbyTarass


I like where this poster's head is.

S T A R

Originally posted by links234
I've heard this argument before so I'll ask; what if the exact same systems were implemented in all 50 states? Would that not be small scale just as it is in Scandinavia...if that works, then why not implement similiar systems nationwide, relegating appropriate powers to the states, strengthening unions...or regulations to the point that unions aren't even needed?

Your premise is flawed

How would you implement this in all 50 states?
It would be mandated by the federal government, that's how.
They'll have their hands in the pot and from there they will never stagnate...come on
They will want more and more bigger hands in the pot.

Originally posted by links234
Why do we say, 'that only works if X, Y, Z?' There are plenty of people that live in these 'socialist' nations that agree with some of your viewpoints, but hardly any of them would sacrifice their social safety nets in favor of what we have.

Of course if you live in heaven and do not realize that accross the ocean is an upcoming economic hell would you believe what works there will work here

reply to post by pierregustavetoutant


It is the fault of rich people! Did the coal miners in West Virginia and the steel workers in Pennsylvania fire themselves? Did the school teachers and firefighters spend all their retirement money on credit default swaps?

Tell me...how is that the stock market can be doing so well, that corporations can see higher and higher profits, that oil companies can see record revenues all while the unemployment rate barely creeps along? Is this the fault of the single mother of five on food stamps? Or is it the 2% tax rate that Apple pays...on top of the multi-billions they make on Chinese workers making $1.50 an hour?

No nation, ever in the history of the world, has succeeded in a 'me, myself, and I' mindset.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by boymonkey74
I wish people would try and understand socialism and communism are not the same thing...
2nd...

This is 2012
That's what most responses in this thread doesn't get

People say.. Don't you know what socialism is?
That's not the point

Today's youth have no idea or interest in what you are saying
They are for facades
So your points are moot

You don't know but think that "today's youth" doesn't so his points are moot ?

Why don't you try to shift your point of view for a moment, just the time to read something about what socialism is nowadays in most countries (en.wikipedia.org...) and then decide whether or not they are ignorant ?
Isn't that the wisest thing to do ?

Originally posted by detachedindividual
Capitalism is a myth.

Everything is a myth!

Socialism is a myth
Democracy is a myth
A Just War is a myth
The Bill of rights is a myth
The constitution is a myth

Everything is a myth, nothing is as it seems

That's why everything I say is giving power back to the people
It's the ONLY way
We can't continue to let govt. auction off regulatory laws
We can't continue to let govt. redistribute wealth or services
We can't let any of it!

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


You want to compare the EU and the US then ask which one decided on austerity across the board? Which one did just the opposite?

Which one is seeing their economy stagnate and falter while the other increases month after month?

as long as capitalists keep exploiting people to further accumulate wealth, people will be thrown to socialism.

case in point, warren buffet one of the top 3 richest men in history, pays is secretary $60,000 a year, because that's what he believes a secretary is worth.

the fact is, there is no law on what you can pay somebody and you can't base it on what they are doing either.

he could easily pay her $200,000 and change her family and her life for the better.

after you made your fortune, give back to the people who helped make it possible.

if absolutely no one worked for bill gates, no matter how much he offered in salary, microsoft wouldn't exist and he wouldn't be one of the richest people in the world.

reply to post by links234


Coal? Coal miners?? You really want to go there?



No, coal miner didn't fire themselves or get layed off by choice. It took that man following through on those statements and doing precisely what he said he'd do.......to so badly damage the Coal industry and those states that SO greatly depend on it. You don't even want to go into what post-election EPA planning looks like. This has been a nice 4 years for the Coal Miners.

By the way... You use the term Rich like it's profanity. Can you define that? I grossed over $200,000 a year when I owned my own truck. Was I rich? Farmers around here are sitting on millions in property, stock, animals and equipment taken together for family worth. it's not hard to accumulate. Are they rich? I hear that term..and it grates. badly. Rich is a term of class warfare, not describing a group of human beings. Not without definition anyway.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Thank god I'm turning 30 this year!

Originally posted by boymonkey74
I wish people would try and understand socialism and communism are not the same thing...
2nd...

Just like death by beheading is not the same as death by firing squad.