For God to condemn you just to die for you is ridiculous and immoral.

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posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 06:29 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 




Thanks for the well-thought out reply.

I agree with a lot of this as well. My thought is that Jesus didn't "need" to come to Earth for us to have eternal life, I believe we all have that by default. What we did "need" Jesus for was to help us realize this good news (pun intended) and that news is that we all have eternal life no matter who we believe in.


I don't think we can count on that. Jesus came for the wicked and not the righteous. He came for the sick and not the well. Acts 24 makes it pretty clear that there would be resurrection of both the righteous and wicked when Christ returns to part the veil. He then judges and He knows our hearts already. For Paul to denote that the wicked would be in a garment of flesh for the final day is pretty clear. The wicked are obvious to me here in this world.

1 Peter

17 For it is time for judgment to begin with God’s household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God? 18 And,

“If it is hard for the righteous to be saved,
what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?”

19 So then, those who suffer according to God’s will should commit themselves to their faithful Creator and continue to do good.

John 2

23 Now while he was in Jerusalem at the Passover Festival, many people saw the signs he was performing and believed in his name. 24 But Jesus would not entrust himself to them, for he knew all people. 25 He did not need any testimony about mankind, for he knew what was in each person.

And this:

4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.

The question is: What will be His will?

God's will is to give and receive. The thief takes. What will God's will be?

1 Corinthians 13

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Is God love? Will Christ love His enemies?

Again, its a mystery since the Bible is filled with references to our destruction if we do not love others and God. I think I leave it at a mystery and live by the law of love. Either way, we reap what we sow and I choose to sow suffering first.

Matthew 20

"So the last will be first, and the first will be last."

If you are humble, you will receive salvation first. If you are proud, you are last.

Also, what kind of robe you receive at the end is the kind of robe your sin and works produce now. Again, it's entanglement.

Matthew 18

18 “Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

19 “Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. 20 For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”

Five Baptisms listed in scripture are also found by following the link in my signature. Earth, Air, Water and Fire. Spirit is the crown. Our sin washed is our robe. I think we all develop that robe here and now. The one I wear now is not that great. As for a crown, what is the crown of the head? The mind. What is the Bible telling us about our actions here and now?

Lastly, we need to consider who the Bible is actually written toward. It is my belief that it is written to those who know most of the mystery and you would need to consult the source of this to know who they are:

Enoch 1

"And now as to the watchers who have sent thee to intercede for them, who had been aforetime in heaven, (say 3 to them): "You have been in heaven, but all the mysteries had not yet been revealed to you, and you knew worthless ones, and these in the hardness of your hearts you have made known to the women, and through these mysteries women and men work much evil on earth." 4 Say to them therefore: " You have no peace."'

Mankind is caught in the middle. We are behind the veil. We are not necessarily legally obligated to the contract between God and the Watchers. Hell is made for Satan and his hoards. Mankind was harmed by the ultimate thief and there may be a good reason why God remains quite to us after the flood. Apart form revelation, this revelation in mystery could very well be written to the Angles and not us. If we take this reasoning, then we see why God rescues us from Earth I and gives us a redo.

Again, this begs the question: Are there some who willingly follow the fallen?

Enoch 1

1 And He answered and said to me, and I heard His voice: 'Fear not, Enoch, thou righteous 2 man and scribe of righteousness: approach hither and hear my voice. And go, say to the Watchers of heaven, who have sent thee to intercede for them: "You should intercede" for men, and not men 3 for you: Wherefore have ye left the high, holy, and eternal heaven, and lain with women, and defiled yourselves with the daughters of men and taken to yourselves wives, and done like the children 4 of earth, and begotten giants (as your) sons? And though ye were holy, spiritual, living the eternal life, you have defiled yourselves with the blood of women, and have begotten (children) with the blood of flesh, and, as the children of men, have lusted after flesh and blood as those also do who die 5 and perish.

The Angels wanted their salvation, yet God said they should have worried about us. This is telling. Who worried about us? God.

If God did not spare the Angles, what of us?

2 Peter 2

4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell,[a] putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment; 5 if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others; 6 if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; 7 and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the depraved conduct of the lawless 8 (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)— 9 if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and to hold the unrighteous for punishment on the day of judgment. 10 This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the flesh[c] and despise authority.
edit on 4-11-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 07:18 PM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


Why can't we count on it? Because a few power hungry people have convinced many others that there is a place like hell? That's one of the fear tactics they have used, our fear of death and the unknown. If they can convince you that hell exists then they have control over you, they will make you believe whatever they want you to as long as they promise that they will keep you away from that place. I'm using "you" loosely, I don't mean you in particular.

Earth is the closest thing to hell you will find. The world is the way it is because of our sins, which include: war, pollution, corruption, greed, lies, etc..

Paul was right about the righteous and evil both being resurrected, as I said, everyone has eternal life, no exceptions.

What will happen to the ungodly? They will be resurrected in a place like Earth, they will be sent to "hell". My opinion of course.

Jesus knew what was in each person because he knew that he was within them and them within he. We are all one, Jesus understood this.

Is god love? Take a look at John 4:8. Whether you take it at face value is up to you, I tend to believe that god is both love and hate.

Will Jesus love his enemies? Check out Matthew 5:44. Again, whether you take it at face value is up to you but I think that he does and will.

The last will be first and the first will be last is a reference to everybody being one, the first person is the last person just as I am to you. We are both part of the whole which basically means we are the same.

Matthew 18 could be a reference to heaven and Earth being one in the same. We are in heaven now and whatever we bind/loose here is bound/loosed in heaven because Earth is within heaven.

As for Enoch, he says we have been in heaven, didn't I just say that?


Do you know who creates this "veil"? Religion, religion and the story that it teaches is the veil and and religion is the thief because it has stolen the truth from us. We are the angels that were not spared, some of us are good and have never killed and/or stolen and/or lied in some huge way that effects everything. The ones who have killed and/or stolen and/or lied are the ones who have condemned us to this place, they are Satan and some of us are the angels that have been chained up. I don't want to be part or take part in this system that has been set up around me but I am trapped and have no choice, basically I am chained up within the system that I hate, I am one of those angels in my opinion, as might you be and a whole bunch of other people. I think Jesus is a good example of one of these angels.
edit on 4-11-2012 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 07:45 PM
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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
I guess I am missing where God condemned man to begin with? If that were the literal attitude in the Old/New Testament, I'm baffled how Heaven fits in.

Now I only have my growing up around the Church and Protestant Sunday School to go by for formal instruction on Scripture but I don't recall God condemning us all. I do recall the concept of universal sin and we're all guilty of it in some form, but with that came the concept of boundless love and forgiveness available to those who seek it.

^^ Whether I believe or follow some or none, is secondary. That's how I generally understand God to feel about the matter, if the Bible is taken as the strict guide to that. So..what am I missing? (Sincere question, OP, if you have a serious answer?)


Did they not have the concept of original sin in your sect?
No baptism?

If the God you know has boundless love, why not give it to all and if he did not hide wherever he is, would more not believe in him and love him?

Have you embraced human sacrifice and the notion that it is good to punish the innocent instead of the guilty?

Regards
DL



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 07:47 PM
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Originally posted by charles1952
Sorry, I just noticed who the OP is. Forget it.



Exactly. Impossible to con with your B S and one who knows how immoral your theology is.

Regards
DL



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 07:51 PM
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Originally posted by rival
A little attention to detail....I pretty sure you meant this instead.....

"For God to (die) for you just to (condemn) you is ridiculous and immoral"

At least it makes sense that way. I've always wondered which group is more
deluded, atheists or theists.

One thing I've learned after fifty years in this life is that when two factions oppose each other,
one black, one white....the truth is always somewhere in the grey middle.

A better question for you OP, would be, "Why would a God need to die as a sacrifice (unto)
himself to save ANYTHING?
edit on 4-11-2012 by rival because: (no reason given)


I can screw up grammar in three languages but I think my title makes more sense than you suggestion.

If God died to condemn us, then he could not because he would be dead.

Your last is not badly put though and the answer is that he would not.

Regards
DL



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 07:54 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 


There is a document that shows the why of what you are referring to. It was preserved in the Dead Sea Scrolls and represents the first 14 copies of what was found in the first cave. Many prophecies speak of knowledge being expanded in the last times for the benefit of mankind. This is one of those documents.

LINK

Many people have taken your perspective based on a false pretext created by only knowing partial truths. Truth can be rightly divided and when you know the rules, this is only half the journey into the mine. The rest of the work in the mine requires the help of the Spirit. This comes directly to those who seek and knock, but a requirement is still mandated. The person seeking and knocking must cross the bridge of virtue and humility. Luckily for mankind, there have been many seekers who can see clearly.

I don't expect you to believe me because this type of sight requires what I outline. It is locked from those who do not allow faith to be developed. God's work in us is this development of faith.

Paul was a student of Hillel in the first century and would have had the keys to the Seven Rules of the scribes. Further, this is the key to unlocking the true Word of God which is hidden from anyone who does not properly seek. The true world is told by the symbols and symbols are like words in that they have grammar.

As an example, the baptism that a believer participates in is only a symbol of what it represents. Baptism is the immersion of the soul into the water so that the soul can repent. Knowing this key allows you to see the link I posted above with eyes that see. Once a person knows this secret, they are then able to see why they are here in the first place. There was something that came before.

For instance:

Jude 1

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

This is a fallen realm. As you state, we are here for a reason it seems and that reason is not pleasant. We are here to repent in the waters of baptism. We are the beast on the altar that is sacrificed. Again, the keys are in the symbols.

Revelation 13

18 This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man.[e-or of mankind] That number is 666.

Carbon is the mark of life (mankind) an has 6 protons, 6 electrons and 6 neutrons. Carbon is the mark of the petrol dollar and the commerce system that every nation must take to buy or sell. Who is the beast? Man.

The temple is the body according to the NT and the temple in Jerusalem was simply a reminder of this, just like baptism. The beast that is sacrificed is the one we are locked in as our bio-mechanical suit. The soul is cleansed by the water after the fire (Trials). Water puts out fire. Again, the story is in the symbols and not in the outer shell that encodes the story. You are arguing over the outer shell without knowing there is an inner truth that you must see to understand. How do you get there? It's what I said above. Read my threads. I can open your eyes to the truth if you refuse Ignore(ance).

Instructional Design in Truth

Instead deny it and embrace truth.



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 07:56 PM
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Originally posted by EnochWasRight
reply to post by Greatest I am
 


1 Colossians 1:

15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Who did God produce as offspring? The Son.

Apply your verses now between the two. Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Who again bears the sin? The Son is the image of God, the FIRSTBORN over ALL creation. What does the firstborn possess from the Father? The inheritance. All things were for Him. He is before all things and in him all things hold together.

Who are the Sons of the Son (Father of Mankind)? Are you familiar with Adam Kadmon? If you are familiar with this concept, then further consider the Jubilee Laws set by God and the kinsman relationship of Jesus. The Cross was the symbol in the material world for what was initially done for mankind at the starting point of the cosmos. Just like the Word represents the idea, so the life of the Living Word represents the root meaning behind the symbol. By Adam we fell and by Adam we are saved. The Son bears the sin from A to Z (Last Adam / Jesus).

The same can be said for Baptism. We are not saved by being baptized. It is a symbol of our repentance from sin. Once baptized, we are to rise to new life. Now consider the symbolism. You are immersed into this life as an act of repentance. You are broken from one loaf of bread and poured from one cup. You are made as clay and stamped with the seal of the Son of God. He is the archetype for you so you can repent in the material world and rise back to unity with the Father. Who is your Father? The Son. See this Thread

Think it through. The cross was a symbol and the true act is the soul of the Son broken up into the multiplicity of parts. The point of involution is evolution. The Son is being raised and is also the Father of the next generations. See this thread: Involution and Evolution

If you can get all this straight (and it is not easy), then consider that you are the image of God. Genesis 1:27 states it this way.

Genesis 1:27

27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

We are INSIDE the image created by God (Cosmos). The image is of God (Son of God) and broken into fragments (Unity to Multiplicity). The Son is being raised. Jesus had to come and do what none of the other parts of Himself (Images) could do. God was raising Jesus as the Son (LORD / Good Shepherd) along the way. Once the time was right, Jesus had to enter the waters and be baptized (Immersed into reality). He lived a perfected life and become the last Adam. Ironically, he is also the first Adam and all others in between. Is Jesus God? Yes and the first image. Are we the image of the Son? Yes and imperfect until we follow the lead of our savior. Can we do it alone? No more than the Son of God could have done it alone. He needed a Father. As Christ is, so shall we be. It's not up to us, but Jesus will judge each according to their faith.

The question is this: Did you repent while in the water? It's what you are here to do. "You must be born again." and we are behind the veil so we don't know what is happening. Read about the Wool over your Eyes as the Lamb. Sin is Wool.

If you get this, then the pretext you created can now be replaced with the true context. It's beautiful and the Son has been with us for every sin we have committed. He bears our sin as our High Priest and has since the very beginning. We are made from His image and will be remade by the next new image that God produces through the Son. We can choose to deny this as well.

It's a gift.


edit on 4-11-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)


Thanks for all this but I did not see if you embrace the notion of human sacrifice or not or if you believe that to punish the innocent instead of the guilty is good justice or not.

Care to share?

Regards
DL



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 08:00 PM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
To the OP:

I don't think it's immoral but I do believe it's ridiculous. So god sacrificed himself to himself in order to save us from himself? Sounds pretty ridiculous to me.


Thanks for this.

You do not think human sacrifice is immoral and neither is punishing the innocent instead of the guilty.
Do I read you right?
Such a thing would be moral would it?

Regards
DL



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 08:03 PM
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Originally posted by SpiritofEnoch
God does endorse human sacrifice in certain situations if it is necessary. He "endorsed" it when he told Abraham to kill Isaac. He showed it wasn't necessary in that situation by sending his angel and a ram for a burnt offering, which is also something God is seemingly pleased by. But remember, we're talking about a completely different era. A burnt offering now might well be something as simple as giving up cigarettes. It's something that you say to God "I don't need this, because I have you" with.

However, human sacrifice is different. Thou shalt not kill is one of the commandments. Jesus is not dead. The righteous do not fear death. What you're asking is "is it moral for God to put on a charade in the interest of making men righteous?" And the answer is yes.


So it is moral for the epitome of morality and justice to lie.

Ok.

You must just love the pedophile protecting pope. That is what he does as well.

Regards
DL



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 08:05 PM
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Originally posted by SpiritofEnoch
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 


From the view of the men who did it, their souls will react like it is murder. Judas couldn't live with his guilt and hung himself. But when God "killed himself," he did so knowing fully well that it was only an act for mankind. But you cannot try God by man's standards, for no man understands what it is like to be God.


That is quite the judgement.

I thought that you were not to judge God yet here you are doing just that.

Regards
DL



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 08:08 PM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by SpiritofEnoch
 


But both christians know they will have eternal life so why should they feel like it's murder? They both know each other has eternal life.

I know what it's like to be god, I'm sorry that you don't.
edit on 4-11-2012 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)


Why do Christians dislike abortion then if they do not think it is murder?

Regards
DL



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 08:13 PM
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reply to post by Greatest I am
 




Thanks for all this but I did not see if you embrace the notion of human sacrifice or not or if you believe that to punish the innocent instead of the guilty is good justice or not.

Care to share?

Regards
DL


God desires mercy and not sacrifice. When God says this in scripture, who is that message to? Who is the message in Psalms to from David and who does it give allusions to? In both cases, the answer of raising a Son is that the Son is the LORD in scripture and the scripture is part of that Word Jesus hears from His Father. We are stamped from the same soul as the Son and in Him, all things hold together. Just a review of where we are so far. The Word of God in written form is the chronicle of the raising of the Son. Jesus was the last Adam and after this, the end resurrection of the Son (righteous church) is all of us in the first resurrection along side the wicked. What is the sacrifice of the beast? How is the altar cleansed? What is the reason for the fire and the water in the process? We need to see the root symbolism to know what is getting ready to happen as our High Priest does his duties. It will not seem pleasant. What you know of sacrifice is what will happen to the beast.

We must endure this to rise. In the process, the beast is burnt and not the one the sacrifice was made for. That too should give us reason to sacrifice the beast ourselves from the water. Water puts out fire and we have the choice to use the water to cleanse the temple. Jesus offers Himself as the sacrifice for us. We would be foolish to deny this gift.

Matthew 3

7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. 9 And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 10 The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.

11 “I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. 12 His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

How clear have I made this for you as you read these verses? The leaders are the ones put in position by God for a reason. They deny God and are refused baptism. As for me, I welcome the chance to use the water to cleanse my temple. I am working each day to deny my beasts in life. Here is what we should deny.

2 Timothy 3:2-4

“For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents (6), unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control (6), brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God” (6).


Notice how many identifiers there are with selfishness as the mark of 18 traits. 18 is 6 6 6. Carbon is our mark of technology and the thing that we have in our hands and foreheads. The eye cannot get enough and the hands cannot take enough. If you know the symbols, you can see the truth behind the ritual and where it points at the end. The fruit of knowledge is what it produces. Oddly enough, the fruit of God's word is also what it produces in the seeker of faith.

What do we use to make confessions? The Breath. Oxygen is 7 protons, 7 electrons and 7 neutrons (777 is the mark of God in the Bible). Oxygen is 888 and Jesus in Greek Gematria. The breath we are given as the beast allows us to overcome the Carbon. We are baptized five times. Earth, Air, Water and Fire. Spirit is gained from the process and our final baptism gives us Holy Consciousness. Love fulfills the law.

Hydrogen is one proton and one electron in a balanced state of unity (Positive and negative). The neutral that comes into reality with hydrogenesis bonds creates a state where God is in the middle. The proton and neutron are in the center with the electron flying about. Even the elements proclaim God's goodness. As it turns out, you can identify all of physics from Genesis and all elements are there pictured. We see law and God shows us physics. Take the blinders off and the beast is Carbon. We simply need to look to know.



edit on 4-11-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 08:18 PM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


I think I see pretty clearly myself, I think you are the one who doesn't see quite as clear. You're on the right track. To each his own I guess.


Paul was also a Roman who persecuted followers of Jesus before his so-called "conversion". Rome was famous for forcing others to join their army, that's how they spread so far and ruled for so long. Apply that same logic to their implementation of Christianity, they killed Jesus then used his message for their own purposes, i.e. control.

They say the winner writes history, Rome was the winner for a thousand years including when Jesus was alive. Think about that.

It is all in the symbolism. Take the virgin birth, miracles, and resurrection, they are all pagan symbolism which were inserted by the Romans in my opinion.

I agree that the body is the temple. For example:


Psalm 11:4
The LORD is in his holy temple; the LORD is on his heavenly throne. He observes the sons of men; his eyes examine them.


We are the lord within our temple (body) sitting on our throne (head/brain/eyes) looking at the sons of men (each other).

Baptism, in my opinion, is symbology of being born from your mothers womb. The ambiotic fluid represents the water and coming out of the water represents birth. It symbolizes a fresh start within this life, as if we have been "born again", which is what happens everytime a baby is born, they are born again through reincarnation.



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 08:22 PM
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reply to post by Greatest I am
 


Excuse me, I misunderstood the question. Yes, I think human sacrifice is immoral. I thought you were asking if it was immoral for god to kill himself. I thought of it as suicide, which I do not believe is immoral. I don't recommend it but it's your life, as long as you don't hurt anyone else then it's your choice.



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 08:25 PM
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reply to post by Greatest I am
 


Christians think abortion is murder probably because they think that child never had a chance to get into heaven.

I think murder is murder, no matter who it is. It's not our place to kill anyone for no reason.



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 08:25 PM
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Originally posted by EnochWasRight
reply to post by Greatest I am
 




Thanks for all this but I did not see if you embrace the notion of human sacrifice or not or if you believe that to punish the innocent instead of the guilty is good justice or not.

Care to share?

Regards
DL


God desires mercy and not sacrifice. When God says this in scripture, who is that message to? Who is the message in Psalms to from David and who does it give allusions to? In both cases, the answer of raising a Son is that the Son is the LORD in scripture and the scripture is part of that Word Jesus hears from His Father. We are stamped from the same soul as the Son and in Him, all things hold together. Just a review of where we are so far. The Word of God in written form is the chronicle of the raising of the Son. Jesus was the last Adam and after this, the end resurrection of the Son (righteous church) is all of us in the first resurrection along side the wicked. What is the sacrifice of the beast? How is the altar cleansed? What is the reason for the fire and the water in the process? We need to see the root symbolism to know what is getting ready to happen as our High Priest does his duties. It will not seem pleasant. What you know of sacrifice is what will happen to the beast.

We must endure this to rise. In the process, the beast is burnt and not the one the sacrifice was made for. That too should give us reason to sacrifice the beast ourselves from the water. Water puts out fire and we have the choice to use the water to cleanse the temple. Jesus offers Himself as the sacrifice for us. We would be foolish to deny this gift.

Matthew 3

7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. 9 And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 10 The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.

11 “I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. 12 His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

How clear have I made this for you as you read these verses? The leaders are the ones put in position by God for a reason. They deny God and are refused baptism. As for me, I welcome the chance to use the water to cleanse my temple. I am working each day to deny my beasts in life. Here is what we should deny.

2 Timothy 3:2-4

“For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents (6), unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control (6), brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God” (6).


Notice how many identifiers there are with selfishness as the mark of 18 traits. 18 is 6 6 6. Carbon is our mark of technology and the thing that we have in our hands and foreheads. The eye cannot get enough and the hands cannot take enough. If you know the symbols, you can see the truth behind the ritual and where it points at the end. The fruit of knowledge is what it produces. Oddly enough, the fruit of God's word is also what it produces in the seeker of faith.

What do we use to make confessions? The Breath. Oxygen is 7 protons, 7 electrons and 7 neutrons (777 is the mark of God in the Bible). Oxygen is 888 and Jesus in Greek Gematria. The breath we are given as the beast allows us to overcome the Carbon. We are baptized five times. Earth, Air, Water and Fire. Spirit is gained from the process and our final baptism gives us Holy Consciousness. Love fulfills the law.

Hydrogen is one proton and one electron in a balanced state of unity (Positive and negative). The neutral that comes into reality with hydrogenesis bonds creates a state where God is in the middle. The proton and neutron are in the center with the electron flying about. Even the elements proclaim God's goodness. As it turns out, you can identify all of physics from Genesis and all elements are there pictured. We see law and God shows us physics. Take the blinders off and the beast is Carbon. We simply need to look to know.



edit on 4-11-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)


Thanks for all this but I did not see if you embrace the notion of human sacrifice or not or if you believe that to punish the innocent instead of the guilty is good justice or not.

Care to share?

Regards
DL



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 08:30 PM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Greatest I am
 


Excuse me, I misunderstood the question. Yes, I think human sacrifice is immoral. I thought you were asking if it was immoral for god to kill himself. I thought of it as suicide, which I do not believe is immoral. I don't recommend it but it's your life, as long as you don't hurt anyone else then it's your choice.


I agree with you on suicide as well as the notion of human sacrifice being immoral.

Thanks for the reply.

Regards
DL



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 08:30 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 


Did you read my thread on the linguistics behind Amniotic Fluid and Amnesia? Consider that I am coming from a life of linguistics study and biblical and comparative research. I do not take theology as anyone's box but my own, fully knowing that God wants to take me out of that box. Nothing for me is left to chance. I have studied all the works from Rumi to Blavatsky and anywhere I can see perspective. The truth in the Bible is seen as truth by me, the biggest skeptic you would ever like to meet. Previous to the last 10 years, the skeptical part was true. Much like your perspective, I shared in this view. After expanding the circle, there is only one central point and that is the Bible as given to mankind. It's the central hub, but the outer knowledge is the key to unlocking the inner core.

For instance, if you were to define a Legion by the Bible only, you would be lost. You must consult other sources to know what it represents. This is true for the entire book. The mystery is locked by keys. They are scattered everywhere and I have a symbolic memory so I remember. Consider the link in my signature. Read my threads and some of my posts and you will see a larger picture emerge. Like the thread HERE states clearly, we all see by degree. It's the point of seeking.



edit on 4-11-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 08:35 PM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Greatest I am
 


Christians think abortion is murder probably because they think that child never had a chance to get into heaven.

I think murder is murder, no matter who it is. It's not our place to kill anyone for no reason.


That is not what they tell me. They say all those that God has killed in scriptures went directly to heave as they were innocent. Then again, Christians are all over the place in their beliefs.

I do not like your last though. Would you not kill in self-defence or the defence of your family or some other endangered innocent person?

Regards
DL



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 08:40 PM
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reply to post by Greatest I am
 




Thanks for all this but I did not see if you embrace the notion of human sacrifice or not or if you believe that to punish the innocent instead of the guilty is good justice or not.

Care to share?

Regards
DL


Sacrifice is giving something up for another. Since God gives life, he can take that life for the greater good of the individual. Humans sacrificing humans is yet another story. God will not sacrifice anyone that does not willingly participate in the act as a means to a greater end. God gives life back. In relation to humans sacrificing humans, we see another objective all together.

God gives and receives only. What he takes in death is given back in furtherance of life.

The thief takes and does not return. There is a difference here. I see that you are trying to trap me in a pretext. I simply outline the process for you and then show that the animal sacrifice was a symbol of the process we must suffer to get rid of our own beast. The entire process is a gift that is offered to us and not placed upon us. The Shepherd sheers the sheep that come by his voice. He goes after lost sheep but the sheep must sill stay to be sheered.

Have you ever seen a sheep that was not shorn? How can the wool be made white as snow if it is left on the sheep? How can the robe be given to the new creation unless the process is followed?





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