Why do we condemn the nazis when America has committed equally evil deeds?

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posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 12:45 PM
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reply to post by lobotomizemecapin
 





Are you saying waging war using the poor against parts of your own country is not a heinous crime? because it is


What kind of question is this?

You said there was no justification for the North to prevent the South from breaking away right? Because to you this is wrong correct?

From the Constitution:




Section. 10.

No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

No State shall, without the Consent of the Congress, lay any Imposts or Duties on Imports or Exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing it's inspection Laws: and the net Produce of all Duties and Imposts, laid by any State on Imports or Exports, shall be for the Use of the Treasury of the United States; and all such Laws shall be subject to the Revision and Controul of the Congress.

No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay.



The South violated nearly every tenet of the US Constitutions' 1st Article, section 10.

The Constitution also provide context for the use of the military in the event of rebellion or invasion.

Here's some more context on the issue:

The First Shot of the Civil War The Surrender of Fort Sumter, 1861

The election of Abraham Lincoln in November 1860 provoked the secession of the Southern States from the Union. South Carolina was the first to leave. By the time of the convening of a constitutional convention to establish the Confederacy in February 1861, six other states had joined her. The majority of the Southern leaders who attended the convention expected a peaceful secession; they did not anticipate that their action would lead to bloody conflict. They were wrong. Fort Sumter, lying in the harbor off the city of Charleston, South Carolina, would prove the point.

After her secession from the Union, South Carolina perceived herself as a sovereign state - the presence of Union forces in an armed fortress whose guns commanded her principal harbor was intolerable as it belied her independence. For President Lincoln the voluntary abandonment of this fortress was equally intolerable as it would be a tacit acknowledgment of South Carolina's independent status.
edit on 4-11-2012 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 12:48 PM
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Originally posted by demonseed



Um.. this thread is aweful, and here's why:

We got into a "fight" with native americans

Japan attacked us first.

The civil war was a "war"....



What did the Jews, Gypsies and other minorities do in Germany?

They existed. They where killed for existing.


The term "genocide" did not exist before 1944. It is a very specific term, referring to violent crimes committed against groups with the intent to destroy the existence of the group. Human rights, as laid out in the US Bill of Rights or the 1948 United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights, concern the rights of individuals.



Okay, sorry, no offense because you seem young. Genocide happens if every war. It's part of what war is. While I appreciate the comment and your saying here is why, which is great, you are off on what the word genocide means.

www.ushmm.org...

In other words, if somebody came in and wiped out your entire neighborhood, that would be considered genocide, even if the other neighborhoods around were left standing...

To sum it up, war = genocide.

edit on 4-11-2012 by Sissel because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 12:48 PM
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Why condemn anyone. You want to point fingers for a few decades of imperialism then why not look to a few CENTURIES of it? Have the colonial masters of the world.paid atonement yet? Have they stopped?

It is easy to blame the.US but look to who they are being paid by. Who are the brains of the NWO? Where was it planned and devised? The.leadership of the worlds problems are not in DC. Their relatives are.there following the plans forged long ago in Bavaria.
edit on 4-11-2012 by manykapao because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 12:51 PM
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reply to post by Sissel
 


No. Genocide has a specific meaning.

en.wikipedia.org...


Genocide is "the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group"


You can't just make words mean what you want them to mean.
edit on 4-11-2012 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 12:53 PM
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Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by Sissel
 


No. Genocide has a specific meaning.

en.wikipedia.org...


Genocide is "the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group"


You can't just make words mean what you want them to mean.
edit on 4-11-2012 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)


Yes, did you miss.."in whole, or part"???????

It doesn't have to represent a whole group, by your link or quote. Genocide also includes the killing of innocents which are totally unrelated in a war, but who happen to be in harms way.



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 12:53 PM
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Originally posted by lobotomizemecapin
So the thread is just a question

The US has committed heinous crimes against the native americans

the US has committed heinous crimes against their own brothers and country men during the civil war

and these are just two examples

The nazis tried to destroy all the jews

The US tried to kill all the natives.


What the hell makes us so much better from the rest of the world?


Because what once was a free new world with lots of promise is now nothing more than an empty shell, excuse for democracy and the safe guard of illegitimate religions like judaism.
America was free for the taking and the jews having proven to be so adept at making themselves martyrs in Europe, move in and enforced that martyrdom.

Once generation after generation have become used to repeating the same exagerations, it suddenly becomes a crime to look at the 2nd world war with critical eyes.

Yes... America is the king of war crimes, crimes against humanity and destabilizer of nations.

But since it's run by zionists you'll be fed a different point of view that will make you not seperate from the "norm".

In time... America too will be condemned for the terrible actions of those who control it.

What amazes me most, is that of course this wont hurt those who deserve the punishments but the common people of America. So one has to ask oneself... why the f are you standing for this #?... this sucking up to a COMPLETELY needless nation like Israel.
I guarantee you would be so much happier if you just forget about that country and start taking an interest in doing good in this world instead of raping and pillaging so your gas prices can stay low.

Talk about wasting "freedom" and "opportunity" on petty things.



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 12:53 PM
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reply to post by lobotomizemecapin
 


Actually there was the Wig party and the Democrat party. The Wig party was split on the issue of slavery so the Republican party was born. The Republican party was for abolishing slavery. The Democrat party was for slavery. Lincoln won POTUS and the bill to abolish slavery was introduced/pushed. Democrats voted 96% against abolishing slavery and left Washington to create their own country of slavery in the south. It was all about slavery, not about states rights (other than a states right to keep slaves). To this day North and South are divided in many ways. The Civil War forever changed America and will continue to do so.



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 12:53 PM
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We got into a "fight" with native americans

Japan attacked us first.

The civil war was a "war"....


--------------------------

Ha Ha - Funniest delusion I've seen for a while. Good egg! Carry on.



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 12:54 PM
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Dude, ‘Murica is pretty much a Nazi regime. Ever heard of Operation Paper Clip… What teh heck do you think the Neo-Cons are?

Honestly what our ancestors did the various Indian tribes inhabiting North America during the expansionary period makes the Nazi’s look like kittens.



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 12:56 PM
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Originally posted by Scouser640
We got into a "fight" with native americans





Please tell me you're kidding.

We attempted genocide on the American indians....and almost pulled it off.



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 12:58 PM
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reply to post by Sissel
 


Genocide is specifically targeting a particular group based on qualifications listed above. The "in part" portion of the definition is still in contention as to it's meaning.

In my opinion, based on the facts, I believe the portion "in part" needs to be narrowed to have more meaning in the context of genocidal attempts by governments world wide. Not just ascribed to anyone who may die in a war.



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 01:03 PM
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Do you people really think that if the US wasn't around the NWO would disappear? Who do you think calls the shots in the UN? The young American government or the ones doing so since our current system was devised?

You think that the US pays a third of the UN security operating costs because it is in charge? Wouldn't they pay the least and pass the bill to their satellite states?

Sure the US wastes.so much of its resources policing the world because it has a fetish for debt and backlash.

Right.



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 01:05 PM
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Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by Sissel
 


Genocide is specifically targeting a particular group based on qualifications listed above. The "in part" portion of the definition is still in contention as to it's meaning.

In my opinion, based on the facts, I believe the portion "in part" needs to be narrowed to have more meaning in the context of genocidal attempts by governments world wide. Not just ascribed to anyone who may die in a war.


Okay, then explain the civil war in respect to this, and your opinion? You brought it up in the thread. How does this apply to Nazi's?

Since you claim to know so much about all of this, and are so opinionated, surely you must be able to explain how this, goes along with your beliefs in all of this.

Nazism, exists in America, By it's own policies, and what it does to the rest of the world, in one form or another, and the point of this thread was to prove that wrong, Have you yet?



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 01:14 PM
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reply to post by Valhall
 


You going to blame the colonies for what was the way conquest was done or are you going to be honest and accept that all empires were forged through conquest and war. Why not blame Rome, the Greeks, and everyone else.who conquered someone else and replaced the natives with their own population?

Fact is history has never Had a time of humanity in peace. We always fought and conquered eachother. We hardly ever "respected" their customs and their people. Sorry that's life. It will happen from now to the.end of.time.

We are.in fact doing it now. Everyone in the west is doing it. The east as.well. China doesn't ask for.permission. Europe never did. Japan well we know how that went. The.Americas were empires forged.in conquest. . Ect.


Blame human nature.
edit on 4-11-2012 by manykapao because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 01:18 PM
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reply to post by Sissel
 





Okay, then explain the civil war in respect to this, and your opinion? You brought it up in the thread. How does this apply to Nazi's?


The Civil War was a fundamental separation of ideology. An attempt by states to rebel against the Constitutional authority of the Union. As a result a war erupted started by the South.

It was not Genocide.

Genocide, as described above, is what the Nazis did. Where they specifically targeted a particular ethnic group to purposefully exterminate, as well as specifically targeting groups seen as detrimental to the Master Race.




Since you claim to know so much about all of this, and are so opinionated, surely you must be able to explain how this, goes along with your beliefs in all of this.


The whole point I was trying to make is that the two instances in history are separate and NOT equal to each other. I'm surprised you haven't figured that out yet.




Nazism, exists in America, By it's own policies, and what it does to the rest of the world, in one form or another, and the point of this thread was to prove that wrong, Have you yet?


Neo-Nazis exist in America sure. Our government, for all of its faults and excesses does not follow a Nazi like policy at all. This is where research and CONTEXT comes in. Because there is always a sensationalist irrational person out to ascribe what the Nazis did to modern day America and the policies of her government. It simply isn't the same, but it's cool to make the connection. Especially on ATS where context means nothing.

This thread proves itself wrong due to the vast lack of historical context.
edit on 4-11-2012 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 01:21 PM
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Originally posted by demonseed

Originally posted by lobotomizemecapin
So the thread is just a question

The US has committed heinous crimes against the native americans

the US has committed heinous crimes against their own brothers and country men during the civil war

and these are just two examples

The nazis tried to destroy all the jews

The US tried to kill all the natives.


What the hell makes us so much better from the rest of the world?


Um.. this thread is aweful, and here's why:

We got into a "fight" with native americans

Japan attacked us first.

The civil war was a "war"....



What did the Jews, Gypsies and other minorities do in Germany?

They existed. They where killed for existing.

I'm not saying other countries don't commit genocide's, but you cannot compare a genocide to a war. Completely different.




I was quoting this.



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 01:27 PM
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Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by Sissel
 





Okay, then explain the civil war in respect to this, and your opinion? You brought it up in the thread. How does this apply to Nazi's?


The Civil War was a fundamental separation of ideology. An attempt by states to rebel against the Constitutional authority of the Union. As a result a war erupted started by the South.

It was not Genocide.


Sorry, but I disagree. No matter what a group is, if it is large, and in the way of war, when they are killed it's genocide, regardless of religious faith, ethnicity, or whatever.

You just backed up the US committing genocide based on your interpretation of the word. Hence you are defending Nazism.



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 01:30 PM
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"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

edit on 4-11-2012 by antar because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 01:30 PM
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reply to post by Scouser640
 


Actually allot of what led to the second world.war was fueled by what the Bolsheviks did in Russia. There was a real paranoia about the forces at work in Russia playing out all over Europe. The Germans saw where Polish leadership was nesting and they acted first. The.Nazis were scum and did horrible things but most of Europe already embraced radical policies and leaders who adored the extremism of fascist implementation of law.

They were bound to start a war sooner or later. Either Russia Italy Spain or whom ever first. It just happened to be Germany.



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 01:31 PM
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Originally posted by Sissel

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by Sissel
 





Okay, then explain the civil war in respect to this, and your opinion? You brought it up in the thread. How does this apply to Nazi's?


The Civil War was a fundamental separation of ideology. An attempt by states to rebel against the Constitutional authority of the Union. As a result a war erupted started by the South.

It was not Genocide.


Sorry, but I disagree. No matter what a group is, if it is large, and in the way of war, when they are killed it's genocide, regardless of religious faith, ethnicity, or whatever.

You just backed up the US committing genocide based on your interpretation of the word. Hence you are defending Nazism.



Quoting entire post for an example of the kind of absurdities people formulate when they have no logical base to stand on.





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