54 year old tells me he won't get Social Security if Romney is Elected.

Originally posted by ownbestenemy

Originally posted by Destinyone
I hold the wheel on my ship now.....

Des

But.....what if?!?!?! I agree with you by the way, but the answer to that is always, what if? I would rather live my life knowing that everything up to this point was due to my decisions, good or bad, luck or not, and that no other entity played a direct role in deciding how I am going to live in the end.

When I was born, there was no tattoo on my butt, that said I was guaranteed anything. I do the best I can, and hope for the best...the only guarantee I know of...I will die someday. i would rather choose, on what terms that will be.

Des

reply to post by newcovenant


OMG...you absolutely don't understand. There's not a "cent" in social security. There are only standing "credits" that the government say are there for every cent they took out of social security and spent on whatever the war or social program of the day was. If those dollars taken from social security had been used to decreased the deficit of the budget (i.e. produce a balanced budget) those "credits" on the money taken would have some modicum (kind of sort of) of actually being worth something, but that's not what they did. Part of the 16 trillion debt is the debt to the social security system! And they issued that "debt" back to the fund while continuing to raise the deficit year after year.

You can't buy bread on an outstanding debt...especially when the debt owed you is by the government. Go try it. Try to buy your Wheaties by saying "I'm eligible for social security but right now all I have is a "credit" issued to me, will you let me buy those Wheaties on the promise that the government will actually earn 16 trillion dollars soon and my credit will be reimbursed?

IT DOESN'T EXIST!

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by Sissel

Hahaaaaaaaaaaaa, and if any member ever proved any of those donkey poop things were real, we should all be very scared...

ATS is great for those sorts of topics, yeah? But when it comes down to it, those are just distractions for real issues, aren't they?

Bottom line is the same.

Do you trust the government?

(I'm kinda simple, so I try to keep it that way

)

To be honest, yes I do, but I question a lot of it.

Anybody that thinks the government is completely wrong, should find some place else to live, in my opinion,.
The government is only as good as the people that support it.

What does that tell you about anything...........your neighbors, your local police, your local shop owners, etc

Originally posted by Valhall

Of course, the opposing side wants to accuse him of "privatizing" social security. That's not what he's saying. He is saying we should have the freedom to choose instead of being robbed blind with no voice in the matter and no hope of a return on our "investment".

I have said for years that if they would just stop social security withdrawals today, I would say "okay, you stole this much money from me, use it to take care of who you can until its gone" (it's already gone), but just don't steal anymore from me and let me make my own choices. My 401k would be more than double what it is now had I been able to invest that money the way I choose.

I'm 52 and about 10 plus years ago I maxed out my SS, but I'm still paying MAX into it every year and will for a total of 50 YEARS!!. If I had the chance I would have LOVED to take everything I put into it over the last 35 years and put it all into my 401k.... for you young people just starting, if Romney/Ryan offers that choice TAKE IT!!

Screw SS

reply to post by newcovenant


I really feel like I NEED to make you understand, so I'm going to go through an example. I'm just making up numbers, but this mathematical example is exactly what is happening and has been happening for years with social security.

Let's pretend in 2010 there was 1 trillion dollars paid in to social security.
In 2010 there was 700 billion paid out to recipients.
The government will claims that there is a 300 billion dollar surplus, but what you're not getting is....

they took every bit of the 1 trillion paid in and they spent like this:

on the 700 billion paid out to SS recipients
medicaid
war
roads
what the hell ever...

So in the national debt for 2010, in the example above (since we didn't have a balanced budget) the national debt went up by 300 billion dollars as a debt owed back to the social security fund.

Now, let's do 2011 and use the same numbers.
so another 300 billion dollars goes into the national debt as owed to the social security fund and now the total debt for these two years, that is part of the national debt, is 600 billion owed to the social security fund.

And ONLY in the U.S. government do they get to claim "they are running a surplus" because the money paid in to the "fund" was more than the money paid out by the "fund", but they spent the money and now have a "credit" (debt) to the fund...the money isn't there.

You NEVER claim a debt as a surplus. But our government does it year after year.

I think we can all agree SS needs to be overhauled. It is pretty much political suicide to touch SS so i applaud Romney/Ryan for even attempting to fix it instead of kicking the can down the road.

And according to the GAO website, it looks like right now there is about $4.7 trillion owed to Social Security and Medicaire...

www.gao.gov...

...but they claim they run at a "surplus".

reply to post by jimmiec


Correctly stated. It is political suicide. What I do not understand (well, I do because Lord Acton was correct) is why someone hasn't just taken up the mantle of a statesman, placed their political neck on the line and see that the American people will actually reward them for being braver than sycophants that currently occupy seats of public trust.

Working the numbers I am sure we can find a cut-off age in which nothing will change for people over X age. Those below X age are offered a hybrid system (so to still pay into a failing system to cover those who were lied to) and any new employees are exempt as long as they have a plan that fits a sound retirement plan; IRA, 401K, Bonds, hell even savings.

Regulate it as you would any other normal plan to discourage people from drawing from the account until a certain age.

I really don't see how anything would be political suicide on this. The elderly are still under the same system. Middle-aged workers can invest half of what they normally pay into SS into a private account and new workers are completely weened off of it and are offered a slew of options on how to prepare for their future.

It isn't rocket science, though anything the government meddles in becomes such apparently.

EDIT TO ADD:
Sadly we are all going to have to pull the band-aid off sooner or later. We cannot continue on the same path as we are now. I would rather it come flying off in one swoop than slowly pulled back, but sometimes compromises must be made.

Originally posted by Sissel

Originally posted by The Old American

Originally posted by Sissel

That persons grandmother probably paid for you schools to be built, the roads you drive on, public sewer systems, ets...on, and on, and on.

Probably, but via income tax, gasoline tax, and property tax. All of which I pay and someone else will benefit from that. And all of which has zero to do with Social Security.

It's easy to say that you didn't know somebody and why should you care, that others before you built this country for you to enjoy, via their hard tax paying work...

See above. You really need to learn how taxes work and what tax pays what.

So if you think people before you did nothing remotely to ever help you, then go back to playing video games.

Nahh, I'll go back to studying for my history and political science degrees. You might want to study a little yourself.

/TOA

Once again, we must be hitting each other on the taxes issue............via my post before yours. Why does it need to be this complicated? Why can't we all be subjected to a flat tax, or real taxes via purchased goods, etc? The way the system is set up, it's robbing Peter to pay Paul...

I don't need to understand the way the tax system works, when it is a complete failure........do I?

The Fair Tax is only truly fair way to tax the American public. Not only will tax receipts increase, citizens actually get to choose how much to pay in taxes. Don't want to pay taxes this week? Don't buy anything. Want to pay less? Buy generic instead of name brand. Everyone gets taxed the same amount, and EVERYONE pays, even illegal immigrants. The currently estimated 11.5 million illegal immigrants would add over $1 billion to tax receipts alone.

/TOA

Originally posted by The Old American



The Fair Tax is only truly fair way to tax the American public. Not only will tax receipts increase, citizens actually get to choose how much to pay in taxes. Don't want to pay taxes this week? Don't buy anything. Want to pay less? Buy generic instead of name brand. Everyone gets taxed the same amount, and EVERYONE pays, even illegal immigrants. The currently estimated 11.5 million illegal immigrants would add over $1 billion to tax receipts alone.

/TOA

I completely agree, living in Arizona.........you betcha!

I guess it is political suicide because it is easy to tell a few lies and get the masses in an uproar. They are going to destroy social security! They don't care about the elderly! They are throwing grandma under the bus! Oh wait. They are already doing that. Reminds me of a true story in the paper. A woman left her baby in her car in Houston and went into a store. A man walked by the car and saw the baby and it was red from the heat. Sure it was near death he broke the window out, retrieved the baby and called the police. The police arrested the woman. The woman turned around and sued the man for the broken window. The man saved the babies life but all the woman could think of was how he broke her window. You just can't fix stupid.

I'm with beezzer on this one.

Every time I get one of those SS letters showing my projected payout (and the amount that they have taken from me over the decades), I shake my head, thinking about how I could have made an even larger investment into my retirement in funds OTHER than SS.

And those funds will be MUCH higher than SS, who's payouts are a joke.

its a ponzi scheme that has been adjusted over 80 times..

only a fool would think that it is a secure safety net.

it goes into a general fund & is spent.

they rob current paychecks to pay people who should have had money built up for decades..

it doesnt matter who the president is.

RIP America



Condolences from Australia

Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by ownbestenemy

 

I know many people who placed all their saving in a 401 K and lost their entire investment in 2007. There are no guarantees and who is to say you will not become victim of scammers or unscrupulous companies who are supposed to match your savings but instead raid the account. Hardly ever see white collar criminals go to jail so tell me what do they have to lose by screwing you?

IT'S. HER. CHOICE.

That is the difference here. You want the government to do it for us, we want to do it ourselves. The risk is ours. Not yours or anyone else's. The government can keep everything I've put in over the last 30 years. I'll still come out ahead if allowed to invest it myself.

But it would be my choice. My risk. My personal responsibility. You know, that thing you have a problem with.

/TOA

reply to post by jimmiec


Yeah.... jumbled brained zombies out there...

as far as my feeble brain of 65 years understands it----

the current scheme is that people who contributed to SS... and were born in 1950... that is the cut-off date for for those individuals to be covered under the old SS guidelines (with early retirements (62 yrs) & 65 YO as the requirement age to collect SS at 100% of the older existing rates.


the age for future retirement is going up gradually, i think that 67 years is the new entry point and that will increase to 69 years under the current reform schedule that inviolves about a decade of implementation...
~go to the Law Source to find out the detauls...i suggest~

my own rememberances of this convoluted issue is very suspect


you are correct. if Romney gets in or if Obama gets back in ---- there are some serious reforms coming... theres a big tsunami of public opinion (faulty-as-it-is) that wants to severely reduce the SS pension payments to seniors.... that tactic is already being played out with the annual CPI , cosy-of-living increases being capped at 1.7% when in the case of 2012 for instance, the CPI was both faulty and contrived to be only 3.7%

So one can see that the elderky are being screwed by the 'Austerity ploy by a mere (official figure) of a loss of a righteous -2 % COLA just this year----


thats AFTER the 'sensitive and caring' Obama Regime had already suspended the Annual COLAS for SS recipients for the years 2010 & 2011.... So he could give another couple million more people food stamps and untold millions of 'poor' a free cell phone known among the parasite welfare class as an ØbamaPhone...
THAT TO ME AND +5 Million other retirees duly constitutes === IN EFFECT=== A TAX INCREASE
(as our standards of living) costed more and we had to do without in some other facet of our lives


[[i am presently having to forego my dental visits because i must come up with over $2,300 by Dec 31st to pay the taxes on a home that shelters 2 fixed income retirees on SS payments as the sole source of my ability to pay]]

see, they will be happy if we both commit suicide in protest or just plain exhaustion from the pressure that government places on people in our position... disabled+retirees....

yo, the OB (obamacare ACA) death panels are actually here now but un-seen !





the 54 YO your post cites is seriously misinformed, and might be relying on hearsay and pop culture myth

the person need to either invest time in research at a Library access to the internet or needs to join a social group, like a retirement 'meet-up' or some other group of peers that flesh out strategies to cope with the changing times...


how pathetic..... !


but thanks for the thread topic

once the 55ers and below are prepared for SS, the system will be in better shape than it is now.
The issue we are dealing with is the baby boomers growing old..theres a lot of them and typically the bottom supports the top and then some. This is an anomoly that will self correct itself in 30 or so years even if left alone (simply put, the boomers will be dead, frozen, or the eternal youth drug will be found and wont qualify anymore..however it turns out, they wont be collecting anymore).

As far as the 54 year old person...choice...ya. he will have a choice..got a bridge to sell ya also.

I am in favor of kicking the age up for those 55 and younger up a few years though and voila..magically solved any issues it had (until people start averaging 120 years old of course)

Now, back off granny (and future granny's)! she earned her bingo money!!!

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by jimmiec

 

Oh the irony!

I'm 49 and can guarantee that if Obama is re-elected, I'll never see it.

Though, to be honest, if Romeny is elected, I doubt I'll see it either.

I would say that's a fair assesment since according to you, you live in southern germany. If you were getting social security, I would be very upset but not surprised.

I'm in my mid-20s. I don't expect it no matter who is President. May someone save me as much money as possible these next 4 decades. I know how to save.

reply to post by AnarchysAngel


pssssttt...the Bunny is stationed...not living...in Germany....big difference.....

Des