54 year old tells me he won't get Social Security if Romney is Elected.

reply to post by The Old American


You are wrong but I was too busy replying to another poster to go prove it to you.
I'll look up the facts and be back. I don't just complain or spout empty rhetoric to get folks on a bandwagon. I study the past to see what to do in the future. You should always seek to improve on what works and what you have - not return or go back to failed strategies proven disastrous.

Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by The Old American

 

You are wrong but I was too busy replying to another poster to go prove it to you.
I'll look up the facts and be back. I don't just complain or spout empty rhetoric to get folks on a bandwagon. I study the past to see what to do in the future. You should always seek to improve on what works and what you have - not return or go back to failed strategies proven disastrous.

As the most-egregious -- and unconstitutional -- Ponzi scheme of all time (today's elderly recipients are funded by young workers, not from their own contributions of yore), Social Security is irreversibly insolvent. In 1950, the worker-to-beneficiary ratio was 16.5 to 1. In 2010, that ratio is almost 2 to 1.

Social Security: Successful Failure

Take off the "entitlement" glasses and read this. It will open your eyes to the truth.

reply to post by newcovenant


Yes it is. You are saying that anyone who does not agree with your view that those who are fiscally responsible for themselves should take care of those who refuse to do what is fiscally responsible for themselves are immoral. You said it yourself. You're accusing those who don't agree with you of being discompassionate and inhumane.

Forced altruism is not the same as charity. You can't make it be either. Legislated altruism will NEVER equate to true charity. Not ever.

You're trying to force your morals on others by verbally chastising those who do not agree with your view.

reply to post by Valhall

Bush2 was knocking around the idea of investing money in the markets instead of doing the social security transfer thingie too...

Do you realize that only 19 percent of investors make any kind of meaningful gains on investments.

I would rather they just gave me the damned money,instead of take it by threat of force,and lose it in the markets.

I don't understand how anyone can't see how stupid an idea this is......

The banks are what ruined your economy,and you want to give your retirement funds to them so they can lose them too.....

The banks and manipulative traders have to go.

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by The Old American

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by sonnny1
reply to post by jimmiec

 

I say let me decide where my money goes, and how it should be invested. WHY should the Government keep its hand in my pocket? Especially all my life?

So we are not stuck with your sorry arse when you blow it all drinking and gambling.

Which is his choice. Stop trying to force your morals or responsibility on others. That's how we got into this Social Security mess.

/TOA

It is not forcing my morals on anyone it is human decency and cleanliness. Animals do it. Taking care of people when they can no longer do it themselves is human instinct. There are people without that instinct. You may even be one of them but believe it or not - They are few and far between.

Of course it's a moral responsibility (hey, look, there's that word again) to take care of others. But it isn't in the good column to force someone to do it. You have the general thinking that if someone doesn't (not can't, but won't) take care of themselves, everyone else should do it. But saving your money, or spending it, or burning it in the fireplace should be one's own responsibility.

As it stands now, the government has decided that it's my responsibility to take care of your grandmother. I don't know your grandmother, and it's highly unlikely she ever did anything even remotely to help me. I don't hold her any ill will, and if I saw her lying on the street, I would do what I could to help her. But forcefully taking money out of my paycheck to give someone else, instead of using it to help my own family, has a name: theft.

/TOA

The BOTTOM LINE, is that Conservatives are clearly against Social Security. They are against this LOW-RISK option that will be there for retirees IF IT OPERATED CORRECTLY and not raided. There would be HUGE SURPLUSES if allowed to operate as it SHOULD and not abused.

So what are the Conservatives for when it comes to our retirees? They are in favor of the HIGH-RISK gambling casino type retirement plans where corrupt greedy scumbags profit on it with NO regulations stopping them from leaving our elders left with NOTHING in the end. Conservatives are all about the unregulated, high-risk gabling casino type society where the corrupt greedy scumbags profit at the expense of the commoner working class and middle class American folks.

Their desire is PURELY to eliminate any type of government regulated retirement plan so that we can instead, use MASSIVE AMOUNTS of tax payer money on the WAR-MACHINE, and the BUSH TAX CUTS for the wealthy. Most Conservatives are big-business, banking, and wall-street folks who snatched their fortune by way of dirty games, back-stabbing, and conning people over in their lifetimes and have no need for Social Security. I PERSONALLY know several such folks who ARE NOT SECRETIVE of this FACT at all when we discuss topics of politics and business!!!! So incredibly smug that they cannot even hide their true intentions. Truly scumbags. Friends of old who turned into money-worshiping-devils! That is todays Conservatives...

reply to post by MyHappyDogShiner


That's because about 19% of people manage their retirement. If you stick money in a 401k and don't manage the 401k guess what? you lose money cyclically. If the cycle hits to lose money when it's time for you to retire, then you're screwed. You have to manage it the same as anything else in your life.

NOTHING is for free. It takes work. I've made a positive return on my 401k year after year...EVERY single year. That's because I manage it.

reply to post by YourWIFI


That's an outright false claim. As stated TWICE in this thread, they are for offering CHOICES in how you save for your retirement. A government-ran retirement program, or a privately-administered retirement program.

Lies...that's what your post consisted of.

Romney's plan allows me to live off of the money that I earned and contributed.
I'd rather live off of what I've earned than something that the government stole from others.

Originally posted by The Old American



As it stands now, the government has decided that it's my responsibility to take care of your grandmother. I don't know your grandmother, and it's highly unlikely she ever did anything even remotely to help me. I don't hold her any ill will, and if I saw her lying on the street, I would do what I could to help her. But forcefully taking money out of my paycheck to give someone else, instead of using it to help my own family, has a name: theft.

/TOA

That persons grandmother probably paid for you schools to be built, the roads you drive on, public sewer systems, ets...on, and on, and on.

It's easy to say that you didn't know somebody and why should you care, that others before you built this country for you to enjoy, via their hard tax paying work...

So if you think people before you did nothing remotely to ever help you, then go back to playing video games.

reply to post by Valhall


Even though I've paid into the SS system for my whole life, and am entitled to SS...I really have no faith in it. Yes, I'll be 62 before the year ends, and can claim now, I won't. In the event there is still a SS system in place when I reach 66, I'll file then...maybe.

The reason I started a new business at the age of 60, with me at the helm, is to support myself through and to the end of my life. I don't expect anyone else to support me. I know depending on a broken system, is a crapshoot at best. I had no choice in SS taking money out of my paychecks for most of my life...I've made damn sure, I'm in control of my choices now.

Des

reply to post by YourWIFI


What I see here are some people who have never deviated outside the lines,and never experienced just how brutal these people you have this "unreasonable amount of trust for" are.

You Do Not want these trash offering anything that would seem like a guantee,there aren't any,and they will make sure there are less if you don't read that contract carefully,and if you don't sign it the way it is,they won't do business with you.Can you say "TRAP?".

I can't even trust my credit union not to steal my money according to their contract,nobody wants to be held liable,even when they are liable.

Better to put your cash into a fireproof safe,that is if you can ever get it in hand even.

reply to post by Sissel


Or....the road needed to be built when she was working.

Or...she never worked a day in her life and never paid a cent in.

We're to the point that the social security funds are being used to fund assistance programs, NOT entitlement programs. So the money is going to those who did nothing for anyone. NOTHING for ANYONE.

You pay your taxes to better your infrastructure. That doesn't mean 50 years from now someone owes me something because they drive to work on a road my taxes built.

Originally posted by Destinyone
reply to post by Valhall

 

Even though I've paid into the SS system for my whole life, and am entitled to SS...I really have no faith in it. Yes, I'll be 62 before the year ends, and can claim now, I won't. In the event there is still a SS system in place when I reach 66, I'll file then...maybe.

The reason I started a new business at the age of 60, with me at the helm, is to support myself through and to the end of my life. I don't expect anyone else to support me. I know depending on a broken system, is a crapshoot at best. I had no choice in SS taking money out of my paychecks for most of my life...I've made damn sure, I'm in control of my choices now.

Des

Here's the kicker, Des: you're NOT entitled to it. The SCOTUS ruled in Nestor v. Fleming that SS is only a tax, and that nobody is entitled to anything back from that tax. Just because the benefit is given, doesn't mean you'll automatically get it. This is how it was sold to the American public, but it was big, fat lie. It's only an extra tax to help pay for our interminable wars.

/TOA

Originally posted by Valhall
reply to post by Sissel

 

Or....the road needed to be built when she was working.

Or...she never worked a day in her life and never paid a cent in.

We're to the point that the social security funds are being used to fund assistance programs, NOT entitlement programs. So the money is going to those who did nothing for anyone. NOTHING for ANYONE.

You pay your taxes to better your infrastructure. That doesn't mean 50 years from now someone owes me something because they drive to work on a road my taxes built.

You know it is ridiculous in that aspect. Believe it, or not, I knew people in Louisiana who were dairy farmers. Got their land via homesteading, and who ran dairies. They never paid a dime into social security, but were entitled to benefits, even still.............the benefits were low. These people NEVER paid taxes, but were still entitled to get some. THAT I had a huge problem with.

Originally posted by Destinyone
reply to post by Valhall

 

Even though I've paid into the SS system for my whole life, and am entitled to SS...I really have no faith in it. Yes, I'll be 62 before the year ends, and can claim now, I won't. In the event there is still a SS system in place when I reach 66, I'll file then...maybe.

The reason I started a new business at the age of 60, with me at the helm, is to support myself through and to the end of my life. I don't expect anyone else to support me. I know depending on a broken system, is a crapshoot at best. I had no choice in SS taking money out of my paychecks for most of my life...I've made damn sure, I'm in control of my choices now.

Des

And also true, because in my last post I highlighted and example of people who never did. They did not pay income taxes towards social security. But they did feed the machine every time they went shopping somewhere to boost the local economy.

How did we get hooked into paying taxes for all this crap? Tax is tax, and it shouldn't be that complicated. How did we do this to ourselves?

Originally posted by Sissel

That persons grandmother probably paid for you schools to be built, the roads you drive on, public sewer systems, ets...on, and on, and on.

Probably, but via income tax, gasoline tax, and property tax. All of which I pay and someone else will benefit from that. And all of which has zero to do with Social Security.

It's easy to say that you didn't know somebody and why should you care, that others before you built this country for you to enjoy, via their hard tax paying work...

See above. You really need to learn how taxes work and what tax pays what.

So if you think people before you did nothing remotely to ever help you, then go back to playing video games.

Nahh, I'll go back to studying for my history and political science degrees. You might want to study a little yourself.

/TOA

Originally posted by The Old American


Here's the kicker, Des: you're NOT entitled to it. The SCOTUS ruled in Nestor v. Fleming that SS is only a tax, and that nobody is entitled to anything back from that tax. Just because the benefit is given, doesn't mean you'll automatically get it. This is how it was sold to the American public, but it was big, fat lie. It's only an extra tax to help pay for our interminable wars.

/TOA

TRUTH

Originally posted by wildtimes
And, for what it's worth, people, YOUR SOCIAL SECURITY gets paid BY THE PEOPLE WORKING AFTER YOU RETIRE. Those people who are working are the ones being taxed to pay for it. It is NOT a "private savings account".

When all of us "Baby Boomers" are retired, it's our kids who will be paying for our benefits. The simple fact is that the benefits depend on WORKING AMERICANS. You don't have a "personal account" with the money you "paid in."

Quite correct but are you are okay with this scheme? Shoveling money from able body people who have their own lives to live to pay for people who have been sold the lie that Government will be there for you in the end?

Private accounts will always do better, you can get a statement showing how much you have in it and it is yours so when you pass on, you can pass it on to your family. SS is the largest tax scheme in name of "security".

Originally posted by The Old American

Originally posted by Sissel

That persons grandmother probably paid for you schools to be built, the roads you drive on, public sewer systems, ets...on, and on, and on.

Probably, but via income tax, gasoline tax, and property tax. All of which I pay and someone else will benefit from that. And all of which has zero to do with Social Security.

It's easy to say that you didn't know somebody and why should you care, that others before you built this country for you to enjoy, via their hard tax paying work...

See above. You really need to learn how taxes work and what tax pays what.

So if you think people before you did nothing remotely to ever help you, then go back to playing video games.

Nahh, I'll go back to studying for my history and political science degrees. You might want to study a little yourself.

/TOA

Once again, we must be hitting each other on the taxes issue............via my post before yours. Why does it need to be this complicated? Why can't we all be subjected to a flat tax, or real taxes via purchased goods, etc? The way the system is set up, it's robbing Peter to pay Paul...

I don't need to understand the way the tax system works, when it is a complete failure........do I?