First 48 hours after a strike on Iran

reply to post by Tw0Sides


So funding and arming terrorist groups i.e. Hezbollah and Hamas, issuing threats against another country (a violation of the UN charter), none of this stands to you as a provocation?

reply to post by Agit8dChop


Don't get ahead of yourself.

Iran DOESN'T have a bomb, and your thinking so appears to be based on nothing other than a hunch you have; which isn't evidence.

Also, Iran is too crazy. You said it yourself that it's been a long time coming. American intelligence knows that. Why else do you think they have a place in Iraq and Afghanistan, if not to counter the Iranian threat? They've been fostering hope of a nuclear program since 1996. In 2003, they began revealing details of it.

If America gets pulled in, it's not Israel's fault by any means. Iran is too reckless, crazed and fanatical to be trusted with nuclear capability. People choose to ignore what this regime is all about. How many have bothered to educate themselves on the Iranian revolution, and understand the place of messianic rhetoric within it's culture???

Why do you say they dont have a bomb, when its as simple as North Korea giving them a suitcase full of enriched uranium? Do you have any evidence to say North Korea hasnt given them what they want?

A senior German defense figure said in a report this week that Iran may be significantly further ahead in its nuclear weapons program than public intelligence assessments have so far suggested.
Hans Ruhle, who directed the planning department of the German Defense Ministry from 1982 to 1988, argued that Iran may have been involved in the detonation of an experimental uranium nuclear bomb in North Korea in 2010.
Related:

www.jpost.com...

the North and Iranians are friends you know, both are under the thumb of the US. My hunch? yeah, i'd be willing to bet North have supplied Iran with something.

Dont get me wrong, I am totally AGAINST an attack by Israel or the US under the guise of security, Iran deserve a defence unlike Iraq, we dont need a history lesson there.

Iran too crazy? based on what? US MEDIA? Iran are smart, the people are clever, do not kid yourself they arent fanatics running around with carpets on their heads screaming ''death to Israel'' like your hearing. The people of Iran WANT Israel to remove the government, I have friends inside Iran whom I talk to who tell me they are sitting around waiting for israel to bomb the government. Yes, Iran probably has a pretty hardcore group of men loyal to the Ayatollah, but this would be small and they'd probbably spend their last days hiding in bunkers being bombed.

Iran to reckless and crazed? I'd say they are pretty restrained, I mean, the US has a massive navy presence parked on their shoreline and they havent made it a secret they are armed to teeth ready to bomb. Yet, Iran have showed patience and discipline. Even the 'hardcore' crazy fanaticals you speak off, surely someone would have made a homemade rocket by now and shot it off? no, they are restrained and smart. Do not take their lack of action as being scared.

People chose to ignore what this regime is all about

And that is?

Because, the last time I spoke to people who were on the ground during the revolution, they stated that the American puppet shah was run out of town. And from what I hear from Iran, all they want is Israel (the invasive, occupying, torturing, bombing, maiming, belting and criminal regime) to stop occupying arab lands and to give the arabs a chance.


How about we flip this..

Israel have blockaded and isolated Gaza, refusing medical aid, fuel, production equipment and transport to enter the strip. Can you tell me where/when Iran is doing this?

Israel have been bombing Gaza, Sudan, Syria for years, killing, slaughtering countless people. Can you show me when Iran has done this?

Israel attacked the US ships, spy on the US via government contact and generally control all media being fed to the citizens of the US, can you show me where Iran has done this?

... but yes, your right. Fox News says we should be scared of Iran like we shoulda been scared of Iraq... i mean, its not like their are large corporate companies embedded in Israel and the US who benefit from such an attack is there.. thinking like that is kinda dumb.. and getting ahead of yourself..

DOWN WITH IRAN, HOW DARE THEY BE CRITICAL OF THE US AND ISRAEL!

reply to post by Agit8dChop

the North and Iranians are friends you know, both are under the thumb of the US. My hunch? yeah, i'd be willing to bet North have supplied Iran with something.

Besides this possibility that Iran may have tested a bomb in North Korea, Iran is working on a public nuclear program within it's own domain. Obviously, there's the strategic threat that this would pose to both the US and Israel. But beyond that, it is highly probable that Iran could smuggle a bomb to Hezbollah who would detonate it in Israel economic and governmental heartland, the Tel-Aviv/Jaffa metropolitian area.

Iran too crazy? based on what? US MEDIA?

A simple study of Shia ideology, the writings of Sayd Qutb, Ayatollah Khomeini and the general history of the Iranian revolution. Oh, not to mention their being the de-facto sponsor of Hezbollah and funding of Hamas...

''death to Israel'' like your hearing.

But they do chant "death to Israel", at Ayotollah Khamanei and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad speeches.

The people of Iran WANT Israel to remove the government, I have friends inside Iran whom I talk to who tell me they are sitting around waiting for israel to bomb the government. Yes, Iran probably has a pretty hardcore group of men loyal to the Ayatollah, but this would be small and they'd probbably spend their last days hiding in bunkers being bombed.

So, you think the majority of Iranians are secular democrats? This despite the fact that the official news agency - IRNA - inundates the population with Islamist and anti-zionist propaganda???

Iran is a very large country with a very large population. I don't deny a sizable democratic population of around 2/5ths of the countries 80 million, but the majority is still predominantly fundamentalist Shi'ite supporters of the regime. Over 40 million people. No small number.

Those democrats there should be wary that the regime might take extreme measures against civil disobedience when Israel strikes, since, as history has shown, war provides a convenient cover to deal with internal issues.

Iran to reckless and crazed?

How much have you read about the regime in power? You seem to be talking about a different government. Check out Vali Nasr's 'the shia revival' for an interesting primer on the subject. Or, more to the point, read the works of Ayatollah Khomeini.

There's nothing remotely moderate about the regime ruling Iran.

Perhaps, the domestic issue there will prove too much for Mullahs to deal with. Hopefully.

Even the 'hardcore' crazy fanaticals you speak off, surely someone would have made a homemade rocket by now and shot it off?

lol, ok. They aren't idiots. Their ideology is radical. Their methods are prudent and politically astute. They are biding their time. You mistake discipline for being politically moderate. You excuse their overall religious fanaticism and extremist rhetoric because you note in their behavior 'patience and discipline'.

This only serves to distort the context. The Nazis and Soviets too were politically suave. Yet their ideology was fanatical, totalitarian and aggressive.

to stop occupying arab lands and to give the arabs a chance.

umm, Israel is located on a little less than 2% of Arab land. There already exists 22 Arab countries. Give the Arabs.....a chance?? Is that a joke?

As for the more politically correct argument (since you admitted, for a change, that Palestinians are little more than Arabs) of Palestine. As many people have noted, the culture, language, and religion of the peoples of the levant (Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and "Palestine") is practically identical. In short, the Palestinian people is a recent invention of Arab strategists to counter the Jewish claim to Israel.

For once I'd like to someone honest who doesn't embellish and exaggerate to justify his argument. But then I remember, embellishment and exaggeration is their only means to an argument.

Israel have blockaded and isolated Gaza, refusing medical aid, fuel, production equipment and transport to enter the strip. Can you tell me where/when Iran is doing this?

And of course, the context is omitted. Israel has a blockade on Gaza because of the 10,000 plus rockets that have come from there over the last 10 years.

Israel have been bombing Gaza, Sudan, Syria for years, killing, slaughtering countless people. Can you show me when Iran has done this?

Oh yes, poor Sudanese. Don't blame Omar Al Bashir's forces for the genocide in Darfur. It's the zionists fault!

Originally posted by dontreally
Besides this possibility that Iran may have tested a bomb in North Korea, Iran is working on a public nuclear program within it's own domain. Obviously, there's the strategic threat that this would pose to both the US and Israel.

Iran wants a nuke, the same way the UK/Russia/France want a nuke. You become a regional superpower and you can say your piece. At the moment, Iran are bound by whatever Israel want and desire because Israel has the nuclear weapon.
This is not a proper way to run society, you NEED MAD the same way the cold war ended with Russia and the US understanding MAD. If Israel and Iran both had nuclear weapons I’m sure you’d see Israel being forced to scale back and listen to its neighbours and negotiate instead of dictate and order.

Iran have had chemical and Biological weapons for a long time, yet never used them. Surely this would be a more silent and stealthy way to wipe people out while leaving your hands clean (for the initial period)
Do you really believe Iran will give Hezbollah a nuclear weapon to hit Israel, when they won’t even give them chemical, biological or even half decent munitions?
Second, Iran knows if it uses, or gives a nuke to Hezbollah and they use it, its lights out immediately. You really think Iran want to annihilate its own country when Israel will rebuild and Iran will forever be the dog in the outhouse?
Iran wants a nuke, the same way the UK/Russia/France want a nuke. You become a regional superpower and you can say your piece. At the moment, Iran are bound by whatever Israel want and desire because Israel has the nuclear weapon.
This is not a proper way to run society, you NEED MAD the same way the cold war ended with Russia and the US understanding MAD. If Israel and Iran both had nuclear weapons I’m sure you’d see Israel being forced to scale back and listen to its neighbours and negotiate instead of dictate and order.

A simple study of Shia ideology, the writings of Sayd Qutb, Ayatollah Khomeini and the general history of the Iranian revolution. Oh, not to mention their being the de-facto sponsor of Hezbollah and funding of Hamas...

The PEOPLE do not want the government. Surely the mass protests indicated this. Its not like the people are sitting in their homes rocking back and forth waiting for the order to murder Jews.

But they do chant "death to Israel", at Ayotollah Khamanei and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad speeches.

The same way Americans chant '' God Bless America '' when they assassinate Osama, or when they bombed Iraq, or in the back drops of Fox News broadcasts when talking about Iran and Israel?
It’s called propaganda, like I said real Iranians on the ground are not doing this, its paid army and fanatics.
Why would the people on one hand mass protest against the regime, then on the other follow them in fanatical hate speech?

the majority is still predominantly fundamentalist Shi'ite supporters of the regime. Over 40 million people. No small number.

Really? 40million Iranians are fundamentalist Shiites? I find that a gross over-estimate. Yes, there will be factions loyal to the Ayatollah, but regular people in Iran whom may be religous are a far cry from 'fundamentals'.

So, you think the majority of Iranians are secular democrats? This despite the fact that the official news agency - IRNA - inundates the population with Islamist and anti-zionist propaganda???

why do they have to be political to want freedom and security and independence and the ability to choose instead of be instructed? Iran inundates its populace with anti-zionist propaganda the same way American inundates its populace with anti-iranian and pro-american propaganda. Does this mean your all fanatical zionists?

For once I'd like to someone honest who doesn't embellish and exaggerate to justify his argument. But then I remember, embellishment and exaggeration is their only means to an argument.

'touche!

And of course, the context is omitted. Israel has a blockade on Gaza because of the 10,000 plus rockets that have come from there over the last 10 years.

Do you think Gaza would stock pile rockets if Israel allowed them free passage, medical aid, food supplies, production abilities and a ceasation of Jets and tanks bombing the strip killing people?

reply to post by Agit8dChop

At the moment, Iran are bound by whatever Israel want and desire because Israel has the nuclear weapon.

And what does Israel bind Iran to?? You talk as if Israel were the regional despot telling everyone what to do.

The nukes Israel possesses are purely for defensive purposes. It asks for nothing more than to be left alone, to be acknowledged. But this Iran and the other Muslim countries can't do. And you yourself add to this injustice by embellishing their opposition with ridiculous claims of genocide and ideas of manifest destiny.

MAD

You don't seem like the philosophical type.

Mutually assured destruction is a concept that an atheist can readily understand. Since he is a nihilist, or at least believes that there is nothing beyond this world, he is likely to be trustworthy with something like nuclear power.

Now, lets talk about that thing which you continue to avoid acknowledging: Islam. In Ashoura, the festival celebtrated by Shia celebrating the martyrdom of Ali, grandson of the prophet, pious Muslims go about the streets maiming and flagellating themselves with whips and knives. That is how serious Shia take their religion. This is the irrational and fanatical mystic element of Shia Islam.

Now, combine this religious tendency with the marxist and Islamist ideology of the Islamic revolution, and you end up with a quite different idea.

Lets not forget the predictions in the hadith (meaning 'traditions') which makes these portents of the end of days:

Before his coming will come the red death and the white death, killing two thirds of the world's population. The red death signifies violence and the white death is plague. One third of the world's population will die from the red death and the other third from the white death.

There will be a great conflict in the land of Syria, until it is destroyed.

Death and fear will afflict the people of Baghdad and Iraq. A fire will appear in the sky and a redness will cover them.

Link

So much of what is going on today is seemingly being predicted by these hadiths. Pain and sufferring in Iraq? Check. Civil war in Syria? Check. All thats left to be fulfilled is chaos and destruction, which could be effected with a nuclear bomb.

IRAN IS NOT THE SOVIET UNION. Secular countries should be treated one way based upon on the nature of their ideology, and Iran, a theocratic regime with fanatic and dangerous beliefs, another way. This is what logic requires of us. End of story.

Do you really believe Iran will give Hezbollah a nuclear weapon to hit Israel, when they won’t even give them chemical, biological or even half decent munitions?

You mean the 10,000 or so rockets they have is not even half decent?

Second, Iran knows if it uses, or gives a nuke to Hezbollah and they use it, its lights out immediately.

What do you mean, lights out?? look at it this way, although I know you wont want to look at it anyway where Israel could seem to benefit. Iran could DESTROY Israel by decimating it's economic heartland. They could kill 1 million + Jews, perhaps more, in one nuclear attack. That's the end of Israel. No more Zionism. The Muslim world is elated. And then what?? Your argument is worthless. The Nazis attacked the soviet Union when logic dictated that to do so would mean the end of them. But the Nazis wanted access to the 3 million + Jews of the Pale of settlement.

Jew hatred is not contained by logic. It oftentimes transcends it.

You really think Iran want to annihilate its own country when Israel will rebuild and Iran will forever be the dog in the outhouse?

It wouldn't necessarily mean the end of Iran. In any case, it would be an enormous victory for Islam.

More importantly, a state of chaos is a requirement to the coming of the Mahdi. Chaos must be in place in order for him to come. It's inevitable to them that Iran - and Shia - eventually knock heads with the infidel west.

The PEOPLE do not want the government. Surely the mass protests indicated this. Its not like the people are sitting in their homes rocking back and forth waiting for the order to murder Jews.

Nice job ignoring what I wrote about Shia ideology.

It’s called propaganda, like I said real Iranians on the ground are not doing this, its paid army and fanatics.

That claim is untenable, and a bold faced lie and exaggeration. The media is CONTROLLED BY THE GOVERNMENT. We know here through example what state controlled media does to the minds of the population. Yet you brazenly deny that the majority of Iranians are fed views by their government controlled IRNA

It's a country of 75 million. A good chuck, perhaps half, wants a western style democracy. But there still remains a very devout portion which wholeheartedly believes in the messianic fervor of the Iranian revolution.

why do they have to be political to want freedom and security and independence and the ability to choose instead of be instructed? Iran inundates its populace with anti-zionist propaganda the same way American inundates its populace with anti-iranian and pro-american propaganda. Does this mean your all fanatical zionists?

HUH? Firstly, what does being pro-american and anti-Iran have to do with Zionism? This is purely an issue of self interest. One can see Iran as being too extremist to be trusted with a bomb, also support American foreign policy, and at the same time, not be a 'zionist'.

Do you think Gaza would stock pile rockets if Israel allowed them free passage, medical aid, food supplies, production abilities and a ceasation of Jets and tanks bombing the strip killing people?

Everyday medical aid etc enter Gaza through accepted channels.

Another gross exaggeration.

Anyways, Goodnight. Enough for now.

I have to admit that I stopped reading posts after the posts saying that Iran have tested nukes and a article from jpost says something is true.

psyops, keep repeating that they have a bomb and then watch people argue the right for them to have one with absolutely no proof at all so they ignore the real issues.

I think whats escaped most peoples attention here, is Iran doesn't need nuclear weapons while having the support of russia and china, it's the fact we have a extreme muslim theocracy in Iran, and if Iran becomes a nuclear power, Israel will not be the dominating force in the east, which Israel won't tolerate.

Now regardless of Israel, the simple matter is, do we trust a muslim theocracy with extreme elements in their military and government to not use nuclear capabilities for nefarious reasons.

Now i totally agree, it's unfair and emoral to not allow Iran to advance its nations power supply, but while we got a large ruling muslim theocracy with extreme ideologies, who believe the quran as gospel, it's a risk the west can't afford to take really, even with russian guarantee of having a lid on the situation.

Personally, i think Pakistan are the biggest nuclear threat to the west, and they should be priority in terms of disarming, and Israel are selfishly crying about Iran, taking away the attention pakistan needs, this is what bothers me.

reply to post by dontreally

You mustn't know your history then. Israel went ahead without American support in the 6 day war, even though America provided Israel with armaments

I know my history very well, and taking on Iran is a completely different monster from the U.A.R war which was totally unorganized and ill prepared to fight Israel aerial dominance, and you know it, comparing that war to one with Iran is very naive.

The worrying thing is this, if Israel goes it alone, it will cause the east to retaliate and Israel will be flatten, and if america doesn't get involved Israel will fire off her nukes, causing a chain reaction were we all lose.

Originally posted by Advantage

Originally posted by hououinkyouma
About blocking the Strait of Hormuz, I don`t see how Iran could possible do that with American ships on the region.

I have serious doubts about their capacity to strike back. Besides using some of the Hezbollah and Hamas forces, which would not work very well on a full scale war.

edit on 4-11-2012 by hououinkyouma because: (no reason given)

Mainly due to the smaller faster more maneuverable boats in Iran's navy. The encounters are routine.. yet the pushed a little with aggressive behavior and it was noted that just due to the difference of speed and maneuverability, they could possibly fight our larger vessels well, even with our overwhelming firepower. Kind of llike trying to shoot a chicken running around only 10 feet away with a scoped rifle. There are a few active duty Navy here.. hopefully they will chime in and add to this. Id heard this straight from a guy we were hosting at our home between deployments who was involved in "playing chicken" games in the straight earlier this yr with Iranian fast boats.

www.cnn.com...

A6 w/Rockeye cluster bombs wins every time.

idk where these silly ideas come from. I'm far from a weapons expert, but I know Operation Praying Mantis.

en.wikipedia.org...

How or when has the ally Israel taken overt action on behalf of the USA?

Originally posted by r2d246
I'd say just use an emp on Iran. Send it back into the stone age. It would take decades for them to get back to normal with all there electronics fried! They'd be using donkey bombs to fight back.

For what, though? Why? Pick up a weapon and join the ranks then, tough guy. I have a recruiter's name for you when ready. He's located here in Lewis, but you'll still get a bonus. Standby.....

Do you want jump status? How about a 6 year contract for a whopping $5,000 bonus that gets taxed 35% and in two-payment increments over 3 years. We'll ship your a$$ to Benning, where there's no women, for 9 weeks. Rosey palms doesn't begin to illustrate...

Chicken hawks run amuck on the inter-webs.

Lima-1, out.