A challenge for the Mason haters

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by mr-lizard

 

If these children are being abused, they have names. Find the names, and publicize it.
I cannot believe you or anyone else for that matter would let a child be hurt and do nothing but piss and moan on the internet about it. Step up to the plate for God's sake. Most men I know would give their own lives to save that of a child. I am just glad I don't know men like you.

I don't know any of the victims personally, I think you need to go back a few pages and READ what I posted.

Maybe the USA coverage on this incident isn't in your papers, but in the UK it's huge.

The events have nothing to do with me - I was merely highlighting the fact that many freemasons were complicit in the abuse.

Which strangely NONE of you have decried, you have merely attacked the messenger.

It comes as no surprise that freemasons are covering each others backs and defending the abuse.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

It has been pointed out that, depsite your prior claims, that this Seville scumbag is not a Mason but it is somehow our fault, and not yours, for letting him do what he did.

People like yourself horrify me, you are the first to cry 'wolf' and the last to take your hands out from under your asses to do anything. If you see a problem and do nothing to help it you are part of the problem. Take responsibility in your life.

It was your kind that were abusing children. Not mine.

Although i do not expect to get any reasonable replies from your back scratching types.

Shame on you all for defending these molesters and monsters.

reply to post by mr-lizard

Which strangely NONE of you have decried, you have merely attacked the messenger.

I think we have ALL DECRIED what you claim. We just don't believe a wild rumor, we want facts.

If ANYONE, especially a brother Mason, is covering up crimes against children, I want to see a public hanging! We attacked the messenger, because you seem to be claiming that this is common knowledge and nobody is doing anything about it.

ANYBODY, especially a brother Mason, has an obligation to put a stop to something like this.

The thing is, we know the likelihood of a member of our fraternity doing this would be very, very low, and the idea that other members would cover it up is just complete rubbish.

Originally posted by darkhorserider
reply to post by mr-lizard

 

Which strangely NONE of you have decried, you have merely attacked the messenger.

I think we have ALL DECRIED what you claim. We just don't believe a wild rumor, we want facts.

If ANYONE, especially a brother Mason, is covering up crimes against children, I want to see a public hanging! We attacked the messenger, because you seem to be claiming that this is common knowledge and nobody is doing anything about it.

ANYBODY, especially a brother Mason, has an obligation to put a stop to something like this.

The thing is, we know the likelihood of a member of our fraternity doing this would be very, very low, and the idea that other members would cover it up is just complete rubbish.

Well I appreciate the reply, at least you've bothered to digest what I've stated.

It seems apparent that USA masonry seems less corrupt than your UK counterparts. It's just sad that the hand-full of masons in this thread have attacked me for presenting information, as opposed to decrying the monsters who have been complicit.

However I appreciate your reply. And I assure you I'm doing my research, If i stumble across anything 100% positive then rest assured the police will know.

On that note - I can see i'm talking to a bunch of deflective, deniers or quite possibly people who are not aware of the current events in the media in the UK (which is understandable considering most of your media is more concerned with either the tragedy in new york or the up and coming elections).

On that note, I will be leaving this thread, as you masons seem to either ignorant or in denial that people in power are capable of such things.

Originally posted by mr-lizard
reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

 

It has been pointed out that, depsite your prior claims, that this Seville scumbag is not a Mason but it is somehow our fault, and not yours, for letting him do what he did.

People like yourself horrify me, you are the first to cry 'wolf' and the last to take your hands out from under your asses to do anything. If you see a problem and do nothing to help it you are part of the problem. Take responsibility in your life.

It was your kind that were abusing children. Not mine.

Look chap, the only "kind" we are is men. We just happen to join a group that you didn't. So save the drama.

Although i do not expect to get any reasonable replies from your back scratching types.

Shame on you all for defending these molesters and monsters.

Please post anything in this thread or any other where a mason defended a child molester.
Anything at all.

We will be right here.

reply to post by network dude


The abusers seem to be complicitly linked to scottish freemasonry. Maybe this doesn't happen in the USA (and good for you if it doesn't - that raises you above such corruption)

But if you go back several pages you will find a list of names, all of whom are in some ways responsible for the mass abuses in the 1970's and various cover ups, d-notices, denials or destruction of valuable information.

I won't waste my time linking anything - as a lot of the information is available on the internet, with evidence that many masons were complicit.

Originally posted by mr-lizard

On that note, I will be leaving this thread, as you masons seem to either ignorant or in denial that people in power are capable of such things.

And the problem is, conspiracy nuts think that "people in power" must mean "masons". I guess out of pure laziness or perhaps just stupidity. When they go looking for proof, they usually find a very small amount of "people in power" who are in fact masons. And they don't come back and apologize, they just scamper off to their bridge to troll another topic. But most never grow enough of a pair to actually look for themselves.

Originally posted by mr-lizard
it's CURRENTLY BEING INVESTIGATED.

Since you claimed to have some sort of knowledge about this are you particpating in the investigation?

Again your deflection speaks a thousand words. You cannot tolerate the fact that freemasons are involved in this stuff, so you turn to deflect what i've presented against me.

This Saville scumbag you mentioned was not a Mason so I do not see what this has to do with Masonry.

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by mr-lizard

On that note, I will be leaving this thread, as you masons seem to either ignorant or in denial that people in power are capable of such things.

And the problem is, conspiracy nuts thins that "people in power" must mean "masons". I guess out of pure laziness or perhaps just stupidity. When they go looking for proof, they usually find a very small amount of "people in power" who are in fact masons. And they don't come back and apologize, they just scamper off to their bridge to troll another topic. But most never grow enough of a pair to actually look for themselves.

I provided a list of names a few pages back. Thanks.

Originally posted by mr-lizard
It was your kind that were abusing children. Not mine.

Sorry, the Saville person you mentioned was not a Mason despite your continued lack of acknowledgement of this fact.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

No he was involved in other secret societies though, namely:

He was a Knights Hospitaller (also known as the Sovereign Military Hospitaller Order of St. John of Jerusalem of Rhodes and of Malta, Order of St. John, Knights of Malta, and Chevaliers of Malta).

The other people who are protecting him ARE freemasons. I listed a few names a few pages back. I don't mind listing them again.

Go back a page.

Also READ what i'm saying. He was PROTECTED by people involved in masonic back scratching.

Are you a brick wall?

Even if I presented evidence here, I get the feeling some people on this thread are wholly incapable of digesting that information.

And thus I'm running round in circles.

I've supplied names, information and locations.

Originally posted by mr-lizard
Also READ what i'm saying. He was PROTECTED by people involved in masonic back scratching.

Are you a brick wall?

No, but I am starting to think you may be. Which persons of the ones you listed do you believe are Masons covering this incident up? Be specific.

reply to post by mr-lizard


10,000 Freemasons

There are lots and lots of lists out there for people that are Freemasons, and for people that are mistakenly thought to be Freemasons, and there are even a couple of people that tried to be Freemasons, but were kicked out, like Taxil.

I can't find any lists of the number of people that were denied becoming Freemasons, or were kicked out once they were discovered to be criminals or pedophiles or some other kind of bad element. I can tell you from personal experience, that if a person in a Lodge anywhere in my district were accused of any sort of the things you claim, they would be kicked out of the fraternity, prosecuted, and probably very unwelcome anywhere in the town.

When coverups like you describe in the UK are involved, it usually has everything to do with money. The Jerry Sandusky stuff here at Penn State is a prime example. The University and football program covered up his crimes, because they had too much money to lose.

I don't believe anyone would risk a coverup just for some brotherly obligation. I don't believe any Freemasons would cover up for a terrible, terrible, child-abusing person. If a few men did such a thing, it was probably because they were also implicated in some way, and if they happened to be Masons that is a shame, but it is no reflection on the fraternity as a whole.

Originally posted by darkhorserider
reply to post by mr-lizard

 

10,000 Freemasons


I don't believe anyone would risk a coverup just for some brotherly obligation. I don't believe any Freemasons would cover up for a terrible, terrible, child-abusing person. If a few men did such a thing, it was probably because they were also implicated in some way, and if they happened to be Masons that is a shame, but it is no reflection on the fraternity as a whole.

Well my apologies if I offended you or the American freemasons. Although I'm quite certain more light and evidence will come forward in the next few months to support my argument.

I also thank you for being the only one in this thread who is capable of discussing this without calling me a conspiracy nut or deflecting what I am saying.

I will start my own thread on the matter when I see fit and maybe I'll even get an apology from one or two members.

But as for you, you seem like a genuine person, with good morals and I can tell that by how horrified you must be to consider that people involved in freemasonry (especially in the Uk in the 70's) can be complicit in such horrors.

As for the other members who have mocked me or tried to turn it around, shame on you. But at least darkhorserider is capable of two way dialogue.

I shan't be reading any more replies, so most of you can save your breath now as I see i'm getting nowhere fast.

But you sir, take care and have a great week. I may see you on the other thread when I start it.

Since you are so proud of your list of names, how about we look at who is or isn't a mason.

Originally posted by mr-lizard
reply to post by EvenParanoidsHaveEnemies

 

I guess the whole Saville incident has completely passed you eh?

What about Tony Blair's D-notice? Ted Heath? Dunblaine? Lord Cullen? Thomas Hamilton? Lord Mandelson?

Oops am I naming names that should never have been mentioned...... Oh dear. The Masons do NOT like it when their own are discovered to be harbouring child abusers and paedophiles.

I could name more names, I really could...

Lord George Robertson? Michael Forsyth? Michael Powell? Roger Talboys? Harvey proctor? Christopher Pilkington?

Shall I stop now.... Is this getting a little bit too uncomfortable?

Oh dear, looking at your list, I cannot seem to find any masonic connection save the Icke references.

If you are going to base your research on the King of the Reptilian overlords, you may want to check the sanity meter.

I do believe there is a conspiracy with at least one on your list.
Thomas_Watt_Hamilton
It seems his rampage is what stripped your country of it's right to protect itself. Something your people have sadly embraced instead of feared.

reply to post by darkhorserider

Here is a map for you

AF&AM - Ancient Free and Accepted Masons

These 24 AF & AM states include: CO, CT, DE, ID, IL, IA, KS, ME, MD, MA, MN, MO, MT, NE, NM, NC, ND, OK, OR, SD, TX, VA, WV, WY.

F & AM - Free and Accepted Masons

These 25 F & AM states include: AL, AK, AR, AZ, CA, FL, GA, HI, IN, KY, LA, MI, MS, NH, NJ, NV, NY, OH, PA, RI, TN, UT, VT, WA, WI.

All Prince Hall lodges are also F. & A.M.

AFM - Ancient Free Masons

There is 1 AFM state: SC

FAAM - Free And Accepted Masons

The District of Columbia is F.A.A.M.

Read more: www.masonic-lodge-of-education.com...

Freaking South Carolina wanting to be different.

reply to post by mr-lizard

No one has proven that the Masons are involved.

Easy:
Do you like the direction and actions of the united states banking and government (especially in the last few years)?
Would you like to know what single outside organization primarily had members of out government and banking?
Do you like being lied to by important people?
Do you agree with the Georgia guide stones?
How do you feel about secrets and being deceived?
How about the tactics of divide and conquer and order out of chaos used against our own citizens and others?
The great seal of the u.s.?


Those are questions I would ask the people that talked to you, and would talk to me if I wore that shirt.

Originally posted by violence=answer
Easy:
Do you like the direction and actions of the united states banking and government (especially in the last few years)?

No, and neither do any of the Masons I know. Most of them are strong Tea Partier types, with a few Blue Dog Democrats, and some third partiers like me.

Would you like to know what single outside organization primarily had members of out government and banking?

Yes, please enlighten us, but don't say Masons, because there have only been 14 Masonic presidents, and it has been a very long time since the last one. There are no Masons on the SCOTUS that I can think of, and there have been no recent chairmen of the Fed that were Masonic. BUT, if there is some outside organization, then please tell us about it.

Do you like being lied to by important people?

Nope. Luckily Masons take an obligation to be honest, upright, and forthcoming in their dealings with all people.

Do you agree with the Georgia guide stones?

Yes, I actually do, and I don't see how anyone could disagree? If there is some massive event that almost destroys the human race, but some people are left to try and rebuild without repeating our mistakes, then the messages on the Guidestones, as well as its use as a cipher, could be very useful.

It has nothing to do with Masonry though. None of the things on the stones have any relation in the tradition of Masonry.

How do you feel about secrets and being deceived?

I think we already covered this, but I'll expound. Are secrets and being deceived equivalent? I don't think so. My PIN code for my ATM card is a secret, but I'm not being deceptive if I refuse to share it with you. Masons have secrets, families have secrets, businesses have secrets, individuals have secrets, but only a select few are actually deceptive. What a wicked web we weave when one practices to deceive. Or something like that is what my Mom used to always say. I've never known a deceptive Mason.

How about the tactics of divide and conquer and order out of chaos used against our own citizens and others? The great seal of the u.s.?

Hate it. Blame the two-party system and the election finance reform that just made things worse. It is almost impossible for a 3rd party candidate to have any real influence these days. The great seal of the US was done by an artist who was NOT a Mason. You can search ATS for that one yourself, or maybe the other guys will chime in with the pertinent facts.

Seems you and I agree on about everything, except you are scared of the boogeyman under the bed, and you've given him a name, instead of coming out into the light and seeing him for what he really is.


Those are questions I would ask the people that talked to you, and would talk to me if I wore that shirt.

reply to post by wwwchronos
There are two distinct traditions that differ on who may be a Freemason, and now are not in direct Masonic communication with each other. The Anglo-American Tradition typified by the UGLE and the regular US GL's including many Prince Hall GLs and others in Amity that maintain male only membership and theistic belief requirements, and the Continental Tradition of which the GOdF, LDH and others in Amity with them who don't require the statement of belief and admit women. Although we have our philosophical differences our emphasis on self-improvement and charity is the same.