A challenge for the Mason haters, page 6

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ATS Members have flagged this thread 13 times

reply posted on 4-11-2012 @ 05:11 PM by jinni73

Originally posted by r2d246

reply to post by r2d246

I believe it's been explained to you that the scene you referenced at 6:25 has nothing to do with masonry.
Anyone who believes that deserves to be misled.

A tiny bit of common sense is required when researching things on the internet.

However, I think the fundimental problem with Masons is that from what I understand they claim that you have to "believe in God" to join.:

edit on 4-11-2012 by r2d246 because: (no reason given)

Have you not worked out why the basic requirement is to believe in a higher being in order to join freemasonry??

If you believe in a higher being when there is no way of knowing then you are easily manipulated, you will believe whatever your told as long as its presented correctly

reply posted on 4-11-2012 @ 05:20 PM by no1smootha

reply to post by jinni73

To clarify, only regular Freemasonry requires a statement of belief in God, Continental Freemasonry aka clandestine or irregular doesn't have this requirement nor is it exclusive to men only.

reply posted on 4-11-2012 @ 05:22 PM by boncho

reply to post by jinni73

The German government banned the Freemasons when they found out they were trying to start the French revolution,
several years later the masons achieved this and at least a hundred thousand people were killed if you add in the Napoleonic wars then the figure hits a MILLION but of course you can help a few kids and fund a hospital and maybe feed the homeless and that makes up for killing thousands of innocents doesn't it.

Why did the revolution happen again?

3. A large gap in wealth between rich and poor.

4. An irresponsible aristocracy; a legacy of the reign of Louis XIV

5. Depression in the 1789, shortages of food, soaring food prices, unemployment in Paris, and
over-population in Paris

6. Financial crisis at the top, due to the refusal of a privileged aristocracy to shoulder a
share of the financial burden

*

Good thing things aren't like this now.

o.0

reply posted on 4-11-2012 @ 05:25 PM by The GUT

Originally posted by JoshNorton
The Blue Lodge degrees make no mention at all of the Templars.

Therefore, Pike believes they've been misled.

Then, it turns out, there's no conclusive evidence that there's any historical connection between the Templars and the Masons, so Pike was wrong.

That doesn't account for the wording that the blue is "intentionally misled" and Pike further elaborates that, "It is not intended that he shall understand them."

...but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them; but it is intended that he shall imagine he understands them. Their true explication is reserved for the Adepts, the Princes of Masonry.

I guess it's embarrassing to admit, because I know for a fact that you're too intelligent to misconstrue that quote so badly.

The "out-of-context" designation bounces (rightly) off me and sticks to you.

Most of y'all know I'm not a Mason-hater and that I enjoy our occasional discussions. However, I do believe y'all should be a little more up front about the mystical philosophy/practices of Freemasonry. I understand, somewhat, why you don't wanna advertise that fact but, then again, if you are proud of your organization, you should defend it with truth rather than attempted obfuscation.

reply posted on 4-11-2012 @ 05:57 PM by EvenParanoidsHaveEnemies

reply to post by The GUT

I am a Mason. It was taken out of context. Next question.

reply posted on 4-11-2012 @ 06:06 PM by The GUT

Originally posted by EvenParanoidsHaveEnemies
reply to post by The GUT

I am a Mason. It was taken out of context. Next question.

Thanks, but no thanks...I'll save my questions for those intelligent enough to attempt to answer them.

reply posted on 4-11-2012 @ 06:13 PM by EvenParanoidsHaveEnemies

Originally posted by The GUT

Originally posted by EvenParanoidsHaveEnemies
reply to post by The GUT

I am a Mason. It was taken out of context. Next question.

Thanks, but no thanks...I'll save my questions for those intelligent enough to attempt to answer them.

And I will save real answers for non-blithering idiots who are willing to accept the truth when it is told to them.

reply posted on 4-11-2012 @ 06:28 PM by darkhorserider

Originally posted by jinni73
reply to post by darkhorserider

The German government banned the Freemasons when they found out they were trying to start the French revolution,
several years later the masons achieved this and at least a hundred thousand people were killed if you add in the Napoleonic wars then the figure hits a MILLION but of course you can help a few kids and fund a hospital and maybe feed the homeless and that makes up for killing thousands of innocents doesn't it.

you can believe what you want to believe but the realists on this site understand the bigger picture
and are not as brainwashed as people that believe in helping each other before they help others.

Helping each other IS helping others. We should all be looking for ways to help each other, as long as we are not being immoral in the process.

The Freemasons may very well have started the American revolution too, and it is just a shame the modern day Freemasons are too worried about liability (tax, legal, and otherwise), or maybe they could be orchestrating another one.

Also, starting a revolution, or fighting for liberty, or fighting for an ideal, does not equate to killing innocents. Sure, wars may end up having collateral damage, but it is rarely intentional, and even more rarely are the innocents harmed by the freedom fighters, typically it is the entrenched governments that use harming innocents as a way to demonize the opposition and turn public sentiment against the rebels. It works, because a large number of people are happy being fat slaves, and it is easy for them to hate the people that are trying to free them.

reply posted on 4-11-2012 @ 06:41 PM by darkhorserider

reply to post by The GUT

Pike was still just one man, and his writings were still just his singular opinion. I know plenty of other 33rd Degree Masons, that are still around at this very moment, and they disagree with Pike. If a 3rd Degree Mason were intentionally misled by the higher degrees, it would go against everything Masonry stands for. If a Mason were to devote a lifetime to the craft, and then find out decades later at their honorary 33rd degree ceremony, that they had been misled for all those years, don't you think many of them would take offense at that? Wouldn't they bring down the entire organization?

The fact is, there is no need to mislead a man through the first 3 degrees, because there is no worship of any particular god, and there is no grand secret except for the legend of Hiram Abiff, and his story only serves to remind us of our obligation to stick to our word and act upright and honestly even in the face of death. So, with that being the case, there is no opportunity to mislead and any dishonesty would run counter to the entire purpose.

One day, I'll get around to reading more about Albert Pike, but it just isn't important at this time. Pike is just one guy. I know hundreds of other guys very well, and I trust them.

reply posted on 4-11-2012 @ 07:04 PM by clintdelicious

Charity work seems to be used for organisations or people to boost their public relations. Many celebrities are now being found to ave used their vast charity work as a cover for abuse that they were comiting, leaving witnesses too afraid to come forward as they fear that the public will never believe such charitable people would do such a thing. They use the ruse of promoting awareness as a way for them to get into the media as well as if they are saying 'look at what a great person I am!'.

I have much more respect for people who give anonymous donations rather than people who say 'look how great we are, we raise so much money for charity' well fair enough, but don't do it purely as a way to get good publicity or public relations. It's been proven with the recent scandals that people are reluctant to believe people are capable of sickening abuse just because of their charitable work. Personally I don't think anyone should gain anything from this kind of thing. Just raise the money and donate without making a spectacle of the whole thing.

I duno much about the masons at all, but giving to charities and fundraising seems to be used as a way of promoting themselves (not just masons but other groups and people in general) so regarding all the theories about masons I don't think all the charity work in the world doesn't negate any conspiracy theory out there at all. In fact it gives a reason as to why they might want to appear so charitable in the first place!

reply posted on 4-11-2012 @ 07:16 PM by darkhorserider

reply to post by clintdelicious

I agree with you.

I almost never give money to charities, including the Masons/Shriners. I volunteer time sometimes, but not money. I also do not like the charities that make a business out of it, and market themselves, and have high adminstrative costs. Masons pass through 100% of collected donation to their designated charities, there is ZERO administrative costs. (Our dues cover those costs.)

The reason the Shriner Hospitals are promoted, is because people need to know about them in order to use their services. Just like in this thread, there are still a lot of people that either don't know about them, or are skeptical about the "free" status of the services. It really is 100% free, no tricks, no schemes, no hidden surprises.

When Masons do help out a family or organization in need, it is usually anonymous. I know here in my town we've done a lot of anonymous work. The Masons don't need the PR, so they don't promote it the way the Shriners do. Once in awhile, we will have an event that is a community outreach type of thing, and it is just because our membership is dwindling, and we need to get the community aware that we still exist.

All in all, I agree with you completely. It isn't really charity if you get some kind of benefit out of it. Anonymous charity is the best kind, and physical actions are much better than cash.

reply posted on 4-11-2012 @ 07:38 PM by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by BlueNose
Causing death by dangerous driving and murder are 2 very different crimes. One is deliberate, the other a careless act with tragic results.

Depending on the circumstances vehicular homicide is the equivalant to murder (homicide).

reply posted on 4-11-2012 @ 07:43 PM by wwwchronos

reply to post by darkhorserider

Hi

Im considering to join in Mason society.
Far as i know, or, let say impression i get, there are two types of masonary.
Masonic order, and , Illuminati.
just let me say, im nearly right, or nearly wrong.

reply posted on 4-11-2012 @ 07:45 PM by mr-lizard

reply to post by darkhorserider

Masons are corrupt people who masquerade behind charity work and ritual and such.

They are almost certainly responsible for hiding a massive paedophile ring in the UK and have been complicit in many cover ups including murder, child abuse and such.

reply posted on 4-11-2012 @ 07:53 PM by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by mr-lizard
They are almost certainly responsible for hiding a massive paedophile ring in the UK and have been complicit in many cover ups including murder, child abuse and such.

And since you seem to know about this what have you done to help these poor children that you know are being abused?

reply posted on 4-11-2012 @ 07:55 PM by mr-lizard

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by mr-lizard
They are almost certainly responsible for hiding a massive paedophile ring in the UK and have been complicit in many cover ups including murder, child abuse and such.

And since you seem to know about this what have you done to help these poor children that you know are being abused?

Research and donations to charity and voluntary work with troubled children.

What about you?

reply posted on 4-11-2012 @ 07:57 PM by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by mr-lizard
Research and donations to charity and voluntary work with troubled children.

So you feel charity work somehow makes up for you not preventing the continued crimes you are somehow aware of?

What about you?

Is this a 'who has the bigger charity d**k contest'?

reply posted on 4-11-2012 @ 07:58 PM by mr-lizard

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by mr-lizard
Research and donations to charity and voluntary work with troubled children.

So you feel charity work somehow makes up for you not preventing the continued crimes you are somehow aware of?

What about you?

Is this a 'who has the bigger charity d**k contest'?

Not at all.

Although I do seem to have hit a sore spot. Are you defending these cover ups or just pretending they don't happen?

reply posted on 4-11-2012 @ 08:14 PM by EvenParanoidsHaveEnemies

Originally posted by mr-lizard

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by mr-lizard
Research and donations to charity and voluntary work with troubled children.

So you feel charity work somehow makes up for you not preventing the continued crimes you are somehow aware of?

What about you?

Is this a 'who has the bigger charity d**k contest'?

Not at all.

Although I do seem to have hit a sore spot. Are you defending these cover ups or just pretending they don't happen?

Actually, you have never provided any proof that these cover-ups happened.

So, you aren't swaying anyone.

reply posted on 4-11-2012 @ 08:30 PM by KSigMason

reply to post by The GUT

Morals & Dogma was essentially Pike's opinion as a supplement to the degrees of the Scottish Rite.

You can't just certain quotes out of context, but read the entire Chapter and the book builds on itself.

Originally posted by Uberdavo
how does it feel to fight for the good name of the masons, when they obviously think you and your brothers in the lodge are, well, a joke or a toy to be played with??

That's not what we think at all.

reply to post by Trublbrwing

So privacy is a bad thing? Plus, some Lodges do have windows and we do not have "sinister intentions".

reply to post by r2d246

Why do people use this video? At 6:25 the video changes scenes and there is nothing to suggest that this new scene is tied to any Turkish Masonic Lodge. There is no proof that 33rds worship Satan.

reply to post by NadimahElizabeth

There is plenty of propaganda held against the Masons.

When I lived in Scotland years ago there were often masonic hangings under bridges.

Why would they hang out under bridges?

The lower level 'brothers' aren't allowed to know what the upper levels are doing either which is why there is a system of heirarchy in place granting knowledge as you ascend the levels.

What constitutes a "lower level" and "high level" Mason?

reply to post by BlueNose

Our secrecy stems from tradition and our history. We really came about in a time not too tolerant of our ideals and values. Today they may not seem to radical, but a few centuries ago it could mean death. And today our secrecy is really just privacy.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

Good to see you back on.

reply to post by mr-lizard

How are we corrupt?

Please provide proof of your assertions? Opinions are not facts.