A challenge for the Mason haters

reply to post by darkhorserider


Thank you for this post. I am not a Mason, nor are any members of my family. As well, I don't think my family has had any direct benefits from Masons or Shriners, I hold both organizations in high esteem.

I have always been so annoyed and infuriated by all of the evil conspiracies surrounding the Masons. Most of them come down to whacky interpretations of symbolism, as if those symbols are some how concrete proof of a major conspiracy.

reply to post by darkhorserider


Not that I am demonizing the Masons but evil does hide well behind the cover of goodness. One could point to the Catholic Church as a great example of this. That said, there are good and bad people in every facet of life.

But seriously, cool story bro. I might just have to get myself a Masonic t shirt and see what happens

Originally posted by network dude
From what I have learned on this site, Pike was under the mistaken impression that Masonry had a direct relationship with the Knights Templar. Since the blue lodge does not teach anything about the templars, he was under the impression that the Scottish Rite held the secrets of our craft.

The end of the drama is well known, and how Jacques de Molai and his fellows perished in the flames. But before his execution, the Chief of the doomed Order organized and instituted what afterward came to be called the Occult, Hermetic, or Scottish Masonry. In the gloom of his prison, the Grand Master created four Metropolitan Lodges, at Naples for the East, at Edinburg for the West, at Stockholm for the North, and at Paris for the South." [The initials of his name, J∴ B∴ M∴ found in the same order in the first three Degrees, are but one of the many internal and cogent proofs that such was the origin of modern Free-Masonry.

5 paragraphs after Gut's out-of-context quote...

reply to post by r2d246
This video if it weren't a hoax would actually disprove your assertion that Satanic worship is revealed to the 33rd degree Scottish Rite Masons.

Originally posted by AlbertPike
...5 paragraphs after Gut's out-of-context quote...

That folk sometimes take quotes out of context is true, but to hear guys like you tell it, ALL Masonic quotes by non-Masons are taken out of context. LAME and extremely overused excuse.

Certainly not the case with the quote I posted:

"The Blue Degrees are but the outer court or portico of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to the Initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them; but it is intended that he shall imagine he understands them. Their true explication is reserved for the Adepts, the Princes of Masonry." (Morals and Dogma, p.819)

That's a straight forward statement of Pike's belief. I can accept networkdude's explanation as a possible answer, but to say I'm taking the quote out of context only shows either your personal insecurity or faulty reading comprehension.

I know that no one wants to perceive themselves as a sucker, but being disingenuous doesn't help your cause. You should read networkdude's explanation, because--other than that--the statement is clear and made by someone (Pike) much more of an expert on Freemasonry than yourself.

Originally posted by BlueNose
reply to post by boncho

 

Also, i don't see what the catholic church has to do with this subject and i certainly don't remember saying i support them in any way. Feel free to quote any post where i did, otherwise please stay on topic.

To answer your last point, i think common sense says its a good thing to be wary of an organisation who keeps secrets as a requisite of their very existance or to obtain membership to said organisation. Not to be suspicious of this would be pretty naive wouldn't you agree?

I am using your logic here. You are saying that a hearsay anecdotal account of a mason killing a kid and covering up implies that all masons would do the same. You also say that anyone part of a secretive organization is evil.

Using that logic we have covered about 99% of the population. Every corporation that exists is secretive, every church is secretive, and in just about every profession, creed, type of person there has been at least one person to kill someone and try and cover it up.

Hell, even a NASA astronaut threw on diapers and drove half way across the country planning to kill or kidnap someone...

Originally posted by no1smootha
The statement about misleading the Masons of Blue Lodge are to remind the Scottish Rite Brethren not to reveal what is learned in these degrees even if they are close to discovering it without going through them. This is much like watching a movie that you have seen before with someone that has not. I prefer not to ruin their experience of the movie with a spoiler, for this reason although there are too many exposes to count I ask a candidate not to read them before experiencing them.

Thanks for your reply, no1smootha, but that explanation doesn't fit the specifics of the statement. The blue degrees according to Pike are "intentionally misled" to the point that the blue just "imagine[s] he understands them" and that their "true explication is reserved for the Adepts, the Princes of Masonry."

"The Blue Degrees are but the outer court or portico of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to the Initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them; but it is intended that he shall imagine he understands them. Their true explication is reserved for the Adepts, the Princes of Masonry." (Morals and Dogma, p.819)

Originally posted by The GUT
That's a straight forward statement of Pike's belief. I can accept networkdude's explanation as a possible answer, but to say I'm taking the quote out of context only shows either your personal insecurity or faulty reading comprehension.

So you've actually spent 5 minutes to read it in context?

Originally posted by JoshNorton
So you've actually spent 5 minutes to read it in context?

Yep, I did. I read before and after the quote. Since you mentioned it, however, I went back to make sure I wasn't missing anything. The quote does continue on in much the same vein:

The whole body of the Royal and Sacerdotal Art was hidden so carefully, centuries since, in the High Degrees, as that it is even yet impossible to solve many of the enigmas which they contain.

It is well enough for the mass of those called Masons, to imagine that all is contained in the Blue Degrees; and whoso attempts to undeceive them will labor in vain, and without any true reward violate his obligations as an Adept. Masonry is the veritable Sphinx, buried to the head in the sands heaped round it by the ages.

I also find the statement of, "It is well enough for the mass of those called Masons, to imagine that all is contained in the Blue Degrees; and whoso attempts to undeceive them will labor in vain, and without any true reward violate his obligations as an Adept," consistent with the first half that I quoted:

The Blue Degrees are but the outer court or portico of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to the Initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them; but it is intended that he shall imagine he understands them. Their true explication is reserved for the Adepts, the Princes of Masonry.

How do you perceive that I have taken anything out of context? What's your answer to my question, btw?

reply to post by TheLoneArcher


well then... that is pretty much how I think. Nice to know you haven't created a god in your own image like most belief systems do.

reply to post by TheLoneArcher

What is your view on psychopaths?? Mofos freak me out. I grew up with one in my family. no remorse, no compassion or empathy. It is an abomination of nature. The extent of there evil is only kept in sway by their wants and want nots. They could be capable of all forms of evil and not even flinch consciously. I know this is probably off topic but I am interested in your view as a mason

reply to post by boncho


I dont know what logic you're using but it sure isnt mine. My point from the start has never been that all masons are evil so please dont misquote me, i work with a mason, he's a decent guy. My point is the nature of the organization is very suspicious and all the charity work in the world wont change that.

Yes there are a lot of other shady organizations but this thread isnt about them.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by r2d246

 

I believe it's been explained to you that the scene you referenced at 6:25 has nothing to do with masonry.
Anyone who believes that deserves to be misled.

A tiny bit of common sense is required when researching things on the internet.

I think there's good masons and bad masons at that level. Same with within the global elitists. And the ones that are bad practice evil and worship satan. However, I think the fundimental problem with Masons is that from what I understand they claim that you have to "believe in God" to join. Even satan believes in God. So they dont' seem to care if your God is just some new age concept like mother earth or allah or whatever. Just a God. So the problem with the group is it's a religious destraction from actually getting to know the true God. Because the universe only came from one source. I mean we might as well try and get it straight while we still can, and not mess around with quazzi spiritual secret societies that claim to know whats' going on and are tainted with rummer of satan worship.

Originally posted by r2d246
However, I think the fundimental problem with Masons is that from what I understand they claim that you have to "believe in God" to join.

The requirement is belief in a Supreme Being, as in the Creator of the Universe. It would appear that just because not everyone calls that being 'Jesus Christ' is what the issue with you really boils down to.

reply to post by BacknTime



Made my day. Bravo, sir. Bravo

Originally posted by BlueNose
At no point did i say masons were child murderers…

Um, your first post in this thread?

Originally posted by BlueNose
What about the stories about masons who kill a kid with their car and get away with it purely because they are a mason?

Originally posted by The GUT

How do you perceive that I have taken anything out of context? What's your answer to my question, btw?

Well, that entire chapter seems to be about the Knights Templar.

In that chapter Pike is asserting that there's an unbroken link between the Templars and the Masons.

The Blue Lodge degrees make no mention at all of the Templars.

Therefore, Pike believes they've been misled.

Then, it turns out, there's no conclusive evidence that there's any historical connection between the Templars and the Masons, so Pike was wrong.

reply to post by JoshNorton


Causing death by dangerous driving and murder are 2 very different crimes. One is deliberate, the other a careless act with tragic results.

reply to post by darkhorserider


The German government banned the Freemasons when they found out they were trying to start the French revolution,
several years later the masons achieved this and at least a hundred thousand people were killed if you add in the Napoleonic wars then the figure hits a MILLION but of course you can help a few kids and fund a hospital and maybe feed the homeless and that makes up for killing thousands of innocents doesn't it.

you can believe what you want to believe but the realists on this site understand the bigger picture
and are not as brainwashed as people that believe in helping each other before they help others.

Could be true, or maybe they just look like a "good" lodge when ure a lower ranked mason.
Simply because u dont get to hear the stuff that a 32 degree mason would.
But whos to say, all the mason / illuminati "scare campaign" might just be there to use them as a scapegoat. Or maybe not lala.