A challenge for the Mason haters

Originally posted by Diplomat
Listening to the opinion of a bunch of random American sheep on the street isn't exactly the best way to find out the truth about something...

"Some sheep at the car wash said his daddy was a Mason and that they're great people! It MUST be true!"

If you are not a mason, or don't know any, or are unfamiliar with any of their activities first hand, and you believe they are inherently evil because of a blog, book, or story you heard somewhere.... just exactly who is the sheep?

reply to post by muzzleflash


You have fire in your avitar. Fire=hell. Therefore, you are a satanist.

I know that sounds incredibly stupid. Stick around. You may find out that you actually do worship Satan. Unknowingly of course.

reply to post by boncho


You can hardly compare firefighters to masons, they're not exactly a secret society are they? The fact is that despite what masons tell you, they will and do cover up crimes to keep each other out of trouble. Add to that the fact that many positions of power are held by masons who will favour other masons when recruiting or promoting staff for example then you have to be suspicious of them. If all they are is a charitable organisation then why all the secrecy? SHADY C U NEXT TUESDAYS!

Originally posted by Minnie1985

TRY IT! I dare you. But don't do it if you have a lot of yard work to get done!

reply to post by darkhorserider

 

i have a simple mind and just wondered what you're comment above means?

I mentioned in the OP that while I appreciated people's nice comments, I actually had a lot of yard work to do, and the several interruptions were kind of annoying, LOL! So, wearing the shirt might cause some delays in getting back to your yard work.

Originally posted by Diplomat
Listening to the opinion of a bunch of random American sheep on the street isn't exactly the best way to find out the truth about something...

"Some sheep at the car wash said his daddy was a Mason and that they're great people! It MUST be true!"

I am a Mason, I wasn't developing my opinion by listening to strangers on the street, I have already formed my opinion of the fraternity I joined, and I respect it very much.

The challenge was for those folks that have the misguided perception that opinions on the internet are an indicator of opinions on the street. Most of this stuff you read on the internet is unique to this venue. You'll NEVER hear this stuff on the street.

hey will and do cover up crimes to keep each other out of trouble. Add to that the fact that many positions of power are held by masons who will favour other masons when recruiting or promoting staff for example then you have to be suspicious of them

reply to post by BlueNose


you're above quote really strikes a cord with me, my present boss bragged that he didn't even have to have an interview to be our branch manager, then within weeks reveals to me he was sacked from another of our branches for stealing, 4 out of the 7 staff i work with complained to our human resources about his bullying tactics and they sent our regional director who is the freemason responsible for employing him without an interview.

i know not all freemasons are like this but where i work there is a lot of corruption going on and its the freemason's who are our managers that are responsible for all of it, if we can't trust our leaders who do we go to for help when they just keep covering each others lies, it almost feels hopeless but were are not going to let them win...

Originally posted by muzzleflash
reply to post by darkhorserider

 

Sorry to nitpick but people can worship something unknowingly.
For example money, most will do anything for it, but claim
they don't worship it.

Point is, people subconsciously exalt all sorts of things without
being fully aware of theirthoughts or actions.

Meh...... I dunno about that.

Of course we sarcastically mention things like money, and football as religions, but people don't really look to those things for spiritual guidance. People definitely prioritize money above all else, and they definitely dedicate more time to pursuing money than spiritual growth, but it isn't "worship."

I do not believe a person could unknowingly worship an evil entity, while thinking they were worshipping something good. If all their time and energy is poured into worshipping and emulating the good parts of a religion, and then someone pulls a gotcha and says, it was really Satan all along..... so what? If the time and energy went into good works, and good deeds, and honorable actions, then switching the names is meaningless. There is no way someone could trick you into doing great things for an evil entity.

Although, sometimes I wonder if the opposite might work. It seems a lot of people get tricked into doing evil things in the name of a good entity.

Originally posted by BlueNose
reply to post by boncho

 

You can hardly compare firefighters to masons, they're not exactly a secret society are they? The fact is that despite what masons tell you, they will and do cover up crimes to keep each other out of trouble. Add to that the fact that many positions of power are held by masons who will favour other masons when recruiting or promoting staff for example then you have to be suspicious of them. If all they are is a charitable organisation then why all the secrecy? SHADY C U NEXT TUESDAYS!

You can compare firefighters or anyone else in the context being used. One person out of a group does not represent the entire group. One police officer that kills their wife does not mean all police officers are wife murderers.

But since you insist, change the example I used and use the Red Hat Society, instead.

Evil old ninnies that they are...

reply to post by Minnie1985


Dont think my boss is a mason, just a tube lol.

This is a lot of what im talking about. Dont get me wrong, im not for one minute saying that all masons are evil but i do believe that the very nature of the organization is highly suspicious. Id be more than happy to bet that 80-90% of masons join because they believe theres something in it for them

Boncho, comparing masons as an organisation to the fire brigade is ridiculous and im sure you know it. lets say a firefighter finds himself in trouble with the law, what are the odds the judge is gonna be another fire fighter?

Anybody who likes someone because of their affiliation to a group is obviously an idiot, the mason groupies are stupid I say.

reply to post by darkhorserider


What does the shirt look like! Pic please.

I am pretty sure that in my town, the churches here have probably helped a lot in the area. This by no means changes the fact that the Vatican has been involved in atrocities over the last however many centuries. Your point is mute.

Originally posted by darkhorserider

I am a Mason, I wasn't developing my opinion by listening to strangers on the street, I have already formed my opinion of the fraternity I joined, and I respect it very much.

I didn't say you developed your opinion that way, but this thread is about you telling others to go out and do exactly that, as if listening to the opinion of an average sheeped-out American is going to do anything productive.

Of course Aunt Sally next door and Jim-Bob down at the local market think Masons are great, that's how it works.

It's kind of like when corrupt politicians donate to charity. They don't really care about helping people, but they do certain things to keep up appearances for the sheep.

I have a question that I think is pertinent to this OP. How do Masons interpret the following quote from Morals & Dogma?

"The Blue Degrees are but the outer court or portico of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to the Initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them; but it is intended that he shall imagine he understands them. Their true explication is reserved for the Adepts, the Princes of Masonry." (Morals and Dogma, p.819)

I am not sure if this is true or not but I was told by someone many years ago, that, To get into the REAL masons you needed to work your way up through the Rosicrucian order not the mason lodges you see in towns and cities. Does anyone know if there is any truth to that?

reply to post by The GUT


There are a lot more active Masons on ATS than me. Personally, I've skimmed through some of Morals and Dogma, but it is just a book. It really has no place in the Mason Lodge. We don't study it, or use it in any way. It was one man's interpretation of what he knew. Perhaps he was very inciteful, or perhaps he was just very imaginative. I know some 33rd Degree Masons, and I know some Past Grand Masters, and I think they are wonderful people, and I doubt they have ever read Morals and Dogma.

reply to post by BlueNose

And proof that this ever occurred would be?

reply to post by BlueNose

Or you're just making it up.

reply to post by Vitruvian

Freemasonry is not Satanic in any way. Freemasonry is not a religion at all.

There's nothing wrong with Morals & Dogma if you've actually read it and not pull from the crap site you listed.

There is no "god of Freemasonry". The use of "GAOTU" is a generic term so one religion is not elevated above others we are a group comprised of various beliefs and ideologies.

They have also exalted some men in the Lodge (Shriners) as the "Imperial Grand Potentate", a designation which belongs to Jesus Christ alone.

The use of potentate doesn't mean they are likened to, equal to, or above Jesus. Quit misconstruing what you don't understand or have a full knowledge of.

The care provided by the Shriners to countless children cannot be denied.

FreemasonryWatch is hardly a credible or citable source. The guy who runs it fabricates lies.

reply to post by BlueNose

What proof do you have that we "cover up crimes". I have plenty of examples of men being expelled for crimes they have committed. We don't want criminals in our group.

As of yet you have only provided unfounded opinion and nothing more.

And what positions of power are held by what Masons? Please be more specific.

reply to post by The GUT

Essentially it means those who deserve to be misled will be misled (ie the ignorant).

reply to post by darkhorserider

To suggest that Pike was just some guy giving his opinion on Freemasonry seems somewhat of a weak response.

This is a man respected enough by Freemasonry to be entombed at the Masonic Temple in Washington, D.C.

Albert Mackey had this to say about him:

His standing as a Masonic author and historian, and withal
as a poet, was most distinguished, and his untiring zeal was without a parallel ~ Albert G. Mackey

From a lecture by Freemason ROSCOE POUND, PROFESSOR OF JURISPRUDENCE IN HARVARD UNIVERSITY, 1915

But I may remind you that he became Sovereign Grand Commander of the southern jurisdiction in the Scottish Rite in 1859 and devoted the remaining thirty-two years of his life in continually increasing measure to the work of that rite.

Excepting Krause no mind of equal caliber has been employed upon the problems of Masonry...

…Accordingly we need not hesitate to pronounce Albert Pike by far the best qualified by nature, experience of life, Masonic experience and Masonic learning of those who have thought upon the problems of Masonic philosophy.
www.masonicinfo.com...

While I understand that Morals and Dogma isn't considered the "bible" of Freemasonry, the quote we are discussing is a direct observation of practices and does come from one of the most respected 33rds in Mason history.

"The Blue Degrees are but the outer court or portico of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to the Initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them; but it is intended that he shall imagine he understands them. Their true explication is reserved for the Adepts, the Princes of Masonry." (Morals and Dogma, p.819)

reply to post by KSigMason

Essentially it means those who deserve to be misled will be misled (ie the ignorant).

So, some of your "brothers" deserve to be misled? Why, then, would they be allowed to continue to be Masons? Not to mention that Pike refers, apparently, to ALL Blue Degree brethren.

The intentional misleading of the blue degrees would seem not only supremely egotistical, but would also seem to belie the affirmations of "character building."

It would also infer that Masons--especially below the 33rd degree--can't actually state, empirically, what the ultimate goals of Freemasonry truly are, right?

reply to post by darkhorserider


It appears that THE GUT has a better understanding than you about your own club. Looking into it just briefly myself, it is pretty obvious the author was probably one of the most informed and well respected masons in modern history. how does it feel to fight for the good name of the masons, when they obviously think you and your brothers in the lodge are, well, a joke or a toy to be played with??

reply to post by The GUT
Yes, you are correct...Pike was the respected Sovereign Grand Commander of the A&ASR Southern Masonic Jurisdiction. This means he held some authority in the administration of the Southern Jurisdiction (not the Northern Masonic Jurisdiction who as I understand it, never gave M&D to Scottish Rite initiates). Regardless of his position as the SGC of the SMJ, he is still an educated man giving his own interpretations of the ritual, within the ritual itself it is often repeated that a brother may find something interesting about a degree but he is not required to receive it as correct, if I am not mistaken it also says this in the preface of the M&D.

The statement about misleading the Masons of Blue Lodge are to remind the Scottish Rite Brethren not to reveal what is learned in these degrees even if they are close to discovering it without going through them. This is much like watching a movie that you have seen before with someone that has not. I prefer not to ruin their experience of the movie with a spoiler, for this reason although there are too many exposes to count I ask a candidate not to read them before experiencing them.

I am pleased to read the quote about comparing Pike's reputation as a learned man with Krause who is one of my favorite Masonic philosopher who is largely unknown here in the USA.

ETA: the Pike quote implies that any 32 degree Scottish Rite Mason knows the secret not only the 33rds.