What are the connections between secret societies and the Church?

What I mean by this, in what way were secret societies related to the founding of the church? Why have secret societies been formed around the Holy Mary Magdalene? What is the significance of secret societies to Jesus- I ask this last question because it is said Jesus' father was a carpenter, which I interpret to be freemason.

Hi Decon

Freemasonry has it's roots in Mysticism and many occult practices of various religions. The first Grand Lodge was formed in England 1717 AD, when four lodges combined. "It was at this time in history the Masonic order severed itself from all churchs, sects and party creeds. They in actual fact set themselves into their own system of theology although they would ademently deny that they are a religion." They took the Oaths are you paying the Price? pge 35-36 by Sidney Mytton- Watson.

England 1883 - disagreement arose with rivalry groups, over severance from all church teachings. Three men arose called Pike, Loyola and Weishaupt, who put forward a theology contrary to sound Biblical teaching, to satisfy the spiritually hungry. They formed from this a constitution that embrased universal religion, a tolerance of all religions and the denial of the deity of Jesus Christ. This was quickly adopted throughout until this present day.
Freemasonry view the Bible as only a piece of furniture. What it says is not to be taken seriously, for it is viewed as only "a symbol of the will of God" The secret Teachings of the Masonic Lodge pge 96 by John Ankerberg and John Weldon. They believe that they can substitute the Bible with the Koran, Vedus or any other writings for they are all in the same light.

Pike again I have to point out was a hoax:
Actual thought of Pike:
"Masonry does not pretend to be a religion; but it is not irreligious
or irreverent. It does not assume to take the place of any religion,
or claim to make religion unnecessary. To charge it with this is to
libel it. It requires its initiates to believe in one God and a Divine
Providence, and that the soul survives the dissolution of the body.
Thus it teaches those great primary truths on which all religion must
repose; and it inculcates those principles of pure morality which have
commended themselves to the good and wise of all ages." (pike � Ritual
for the Reception of a Louveteau p.14)


Weishaupt was a Jesuit,
He was born and raised in Ingolstadt ! Coat of Arms ! Map |

encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com...

He worked at first to divest Freemasonry of its pseudohistorical mumbo-jumbo and reform it. Weishaupt had no use for other occultisms in general: "It is by this scale that we must measure the mad and wicked explanations of the Rosycrucions, the exorcists and Cabalists. These are rejected by all good Masons, because incompatible with social happiness." His project of "illumination, enlightening the understanding by the sun of reason, which will dispel the clouds of superstition and of prejudice" was an unwelcome reform. Soon however he had developed gnostic mysteries of his own, with the goal of perfecting human nature through re-education to achieve a communal state of nature, freed of government and organized religion. He began working towards incorporating his system of Illuminism into that of Masonry, with the aim of spreading his ideals throughout the world. "I did not bring Deism into Bavaria," he wrote, "more than into Rome. I found it here, in great vigour, more abounding than in any of the neighboring Protestant States. I am proud to be known to the world as the founder of the Illuminati."

Layola
www.religiouscounterfeits.org...
The Society of Jesus, the largest Roman Catholic Religious Order, whose members are called "Jesuits", was founded by Ignatius of Loyola. Ignatius was born at Loyola in the Spanish Basque country in 1491. He adopted a military career, and upon being wounded in the leg at the seige of Pampeluna he was obliged to undergo a long convalescence. During this time, he underwent a fantastic "Spiritual Transformation".

THE LOS ALUMBRADOS- "The Illuminated Ones"

Well, there is no way to break this news gently to you, and so I will just go ahead and say it. The Founder of the Jesuit Order, Ignatius Loyola, was a Witch! Literally! Ignatius belonged to a Witchcraft Group called THE ILLUMINATI, in his native tongue called "The Los Alumbrados". (See Encyclopedia Brittanica, Vol. 14, 1910, pg. 320)

Pike was not a Jesuit, he never defamed the Christian church and was a devoted Christian.

The Illuminati which is oft tried to be linked to Freemasonry although there has nevr been any evidence to support the speculation. Is Dufunked and no longer exists except in the theories of the scare mongers and conspiracy propagandists.
www.masonicinfo.com...

"it is said Jesus' father was a carpenter, which I interpret to be freemason."

I'va always found this fascinating. Carpenter in Judea? What kind of trees do they have in Judea, in sufficient quantities to make carpentry happen?

Ever see pictures of the mideast? Little stick houses everywhere?

The word in the original bible translates as builder. Which Europeans took to mean carpenter.

"The Illuminati which is oft tried to be linked to Freemasonry although there has nevr been any evidence to support the speculation. Is Dufunked and no longer exists except in the theories of the scare mongers and conspiracy propagandists."

Dufunked? On what planet is that a word, and what does it mean?

Albert Pike, Manly P. Hall, Foster Bailey and J.D. Buck all said the Illuminati control Freemasonry. All 33d degree Freemasons.

Originally posted by kanga
Freemasonry has it's roots in Mysticism and many occult practices of various religions.

This statement is inaccurate. Freemasonry actually has its roots in medieval guilds of stonemasons. It is true that some Masonic writers have been interested in mysticism and occult philosophy, and some Masonic degrees were written to reflect them, but is erroneous to call them the "roots" of Freemasonry.

The first Grand Lodge was formed in England 1717 AD, when four lodges combined. "It was at this time in history the Masonic order severed itself from all churchs, sects and party creeds. They in actual fact set themselves into their own system of theology although they would ademently deny that they are a religion." They took the Oaths are you paying the Price? pge 35-36 by Sidney Mytton- Watson.

It is true that the first Grand Lodge was formed in London in 1717 by 4 separate Lodges. Hower, it is not true that it "severed itself from all churchs, sects and party creeds. They in actual fact set themselves into their own system of theology although they would ademently deny that they are a religion." Indeed, one of the most important members of the new Grand Lodge was the Rev. James Anderson, a Presbyterian minister and Calvinist theologian who authored the Grand Lodge's Constitution.

Fiat Lvx.

Originally posted by kanga
England 1883 - disagreement arose with rivalry groups, over severance from all church teachings. Three men arose called Pike, Loyola and Weishaupt, who put forward a theology contrary to sound Biblical teaching, to satisfy the spiritually hungry.

To begin with, none of these men "arose in England in 1883." As a matter of fact, in 1883, Weishaupt and Loyola were lond dead, and Pike was an old man who had already retired from his law practice and was teaching political science and civics part time in a Washington D.C. high school.
What "sound biblical teaching" entails is anyone's guess, since everyone has their owns opinions. However, just for the record, Pike was an Episcopalian, Loyola was a Catholic, and Weishaupt was a Deist. Both Pike and Weishaupt were Freemasons, Loyola was not.

They formed from this a constitution that embrased universal religion, a tolerance of all religions and the denial of the deity of Jesus Christ. This was quickly adopted throughout until this present day.

It is true that both Pike and Weishaupt embraced universal tolerance in their approach to religious beliefs, whicj is of course the bedrock of freedom. However, Loyola's beliefs were the exact opposite. He formed the Society of Jesus (Jesuits) as a counter-Reformation organization, its prime objective being to stop the spread of Protestantism.

Freemasonry view the Bible as only a piece of furniture.

The Square, Compasses, and Holy Bible are the Furniture of the Lodge. By this we mean that are so important that, without them, the Lodge is not furnished and cannot be opened, either for business. Therefore it is not "only a piece of furniture"; it is so necessarily essential that no authorized meeting can occur without its presence.

What it says is not to be taken seriously, for it is viewed as only "a symbol of the will of God" The secret Teachings of the Masonic Lodge pge 96 by John Ankerberg and John Weldon. They believe that they can substitute the Bible with the Koran, Vedus or any other writings for they are all in the same light.

Since Lodges exist all of the world, and there are Freemasons of all faiths, the Bible is not "substituted"; the Holy Book of the religion of the nation that Lodge exists is normally used. In Turkey, Lodges use the Quran; in Israel, they use the Tanakh; in the US, Canada, and Britain, the Bible is used.

Fiat Lvx.

Originally posted by Researcher


Albert Pike, Manly P. Hall, Foster Bailey and J.D. Buck all said the Illuminati control Freemasonry. All 33d degree Freemasons.

This statement is misleading. None of these authors ever spoke of any connection between Freemasonry and the historical organization in Bavaria that called themselves the Illuminati. Instead, these authors have used the generic term "illuminati" to refer to individuals who are intellectually and/or spiritual enlightened, without regard of to any organization they may belong to.
Whether these authors speak of the Bavarian Illuminati, or if their meaning is the aforementioned enlightened group, is always clear in the context in which the phrase is used in their books.

Fiat Lvx.

[edit on 20-10-2004 by Masonic Light]

I think originally there was a strong connection to spirituality and some secret societies, but today I think it's mostly reenacting rituals and clubs for men...I mean how serious are clubs that haze people or came from clubs that haze it's members....

It is true that the first Grand Lodge was formed in London in 1717 by 4 separate Lodges. Hower, it is not true that it "severed itself from all churchs, sects and party creeds. They in actual fact set themselves into their own system of theology although they would ademently deny that they are a religion." Indeed, one of the most important members of the new Grand Lodge was the Rev. James Anderson, a Presbyterian minister and Calvinist theologian who authored the Grand Lodge's Constitution.

if you check you will find that up to approx 1970 the Grand Chaplain of the United Grand Lodge of England was either The Arch Bishop of Canterbury, the head of the Anglican Church, or it was his deputy, or senior Bishop.

"This statement is misleading. None of these authors ever spoke of any connection between Freemasonry and the historical organization in Bavaria that called themselves the Illuminati."

Neither did I. Seems like someone's trying to pull a sleight of hand thing here.

"Weishaupt was a Jesuit"

Way I heard it, he was a Jew raised by Jesuits. Something that happened in his last year of school turned him away from religion. Wonder what that could be?

Way I heard it, he was a Jew raised by Jesuits. Something that happened in his last year of school turned him away from religion. Wonder what that could be?

If you had followed the link it would give you much more information.

If he turned away from religion in his last years of school, he did so long before he established his Illuminartti group, long before any connections with Freemasonry. Which as you can read he tried to usurp, for his own idiology.

If he turned away from God , he would not be able to join Modern Freemasonry.

"If you had followed the link it would give you much more information."

Yes, but the information is not necessarily true. Seems like there are many conflicting versions of anything to to with this line of study.

Regarding Adam Weishaupt turning away from religion:

Boy

Raised by priests

Work on that...

Originally posted by Researcher
"This statement is misleading. None of these authors ever spoke of any connection between Freemasonry and the historical organization in Bavaria that called themselves the Illuminati."

Neither did I. Seems like someone's trying to pull a sleight of hand thing here.

You said, and I quote, "Albert Pike, Manly P. Hall, Foster Bailey and J.D. Buck all said the Illuminati control Freemasonry." This is simply not true. Grand Lodges control Freemasonry, not some great school of Adepts or Magi. These authors never claimed that any Illuminati "controlled" Freemasonry; at they time when these men wrote, "illuminati" was a general term to describe all Freemasons, and the word is still used today on Patents of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite.

"Weishaupt was a Jesuit"

Way I heard it, he was a Jew raised by Jesuits. Something that happened in his last year of school turned him away from religion. Wonder what that could be?

Weishaupt was neither a Jew nor a Jesuit. He was raised a Roman Catholic, but abandoned that faith in favor of a scientific worldview as a young adult, eventually becoming a Deist. He graduated from the Jesuit University of Ingolstadt with a doctorate in Natural Philosophy, became a professor there, and eventually Chair of the Philosophy Department. He taught Newtonian physics and secular philosophy instead of Roman Catholic doctrine, which led to his being fired and fined by the Jesuits. It was this that originally instigated him to form a secret society of freethinkers to combat Jesuit control; this society eventually evolved into the Illuminati.

Fiat Lvx.

enlightenment, as all faiths of the cloth, is a belief.
Belief is the foundation of religion, and in belief, FreeMasonry have found the means to sustain and discipline mankind thru the bondage of Genetic heritage passed on through the psychological abuse of sustaining tradition through belief.

Has Freemasonry spawned from Christianity.... is the wrong question.

We spend our lives looking for answers, when you should be taking a step back, and observe the formulaes.
Nothing is isolated from the other. Everything exists in this moment. If it doesn't, it is only a memory you choose to bring here, to this place.

FreeMasonry have found the means to sustain and discipline mankind thru the bondage of Genetic heritage passed on through the psychological abuse of sustaining tradition through belief.

The "bondage of genetic heritage"? "Psychological abuse . . . ."? Would you please explain what you mean here.