Pakistani parents kill 15-year-old daughter for looking at two boys

A disgusting act.
I am curious... in their culture, if they consider perceived lewdness to be a taint of dishonor, why don't they consider murder to be a worse one? In a reasonable society, I would think the parents have ruined their reputation forever.

reply to post by mr10k

But what does that have to do with Female Rights

It has everything to do with female rights, as in pakistan, there are no female rights, females are treated as items to trade and serve.

Do females in general not have a right to look at boys or something?

No they don't under sharīʿah.


And still not one male muslim has come out and condem this in the name of allah, but if you dare create a funny picture or criticize islam watch them in there mass's line the streets calling for beheadings..

reply to post by JohnPhoenix

I once and for all would like some clear definitions: How do you define the good Muslims from the extreme Muslims? How do the good Muslims distinguish between the good Muslims or extreme Muslims? We need to know better how to tell the two apart. So Good Muslims of ATS, tell me, How do you do it?

How can you tell a good Canadian from a bad Canadian?

Why isn't there some kind of handbook to explain everything so I don't have to think so much?

The stuff that keeps me awake at night...

reply to post by TheMaverick


I am not defending this, but let me guess number of you are thinking

Hey maybe we should BOMB THEM, destroy their infrastructure, water, electricity, hospitals

Kill 100 000 of hem indirectly, make them hungry and sick........yeah that's how we will
spread democracy and freedom. Sarcasm.

Originally posted by TheMaverick
reply to post by mr10k

 

Do females in general not have a right to look at boys or something?

No they don't under sharīʿah.

And still not one male muslim has come out and condem this in the name of allah, but if you dare create a funny picture or criticize islam watch them in there mass's line the streets calling for beheadings..

Muslims against honor killings:

“We felt very strongly that we had a responsibility to make it very, very clear that honor killings — so-called honor killings; we don’t want to consider them anything honorable — have absolutely nothing to do with Islam,” said Sikander Hashmi, an imam in the Ontario city of Kingston where the trial is taking place.

blogs.reuters.com...

Mainstream Islam condemns honor killings, and leaders of the American Muslim community have unanimously condemned the practice. Members of the Council on American-Islamic Relations have condemned all honor killings as well as specific incidents.[2] Many Muslim leaders in the US say that Islam does not promote honor killings and that the practice stems from sexism and tribal behavior that predates the religion. "You're always going to get problems with chauvinism and suppressing vulnerable populations and gender discrimination," says Salam Al-Marayati, executive director of the Muslim Public Affairs Council.[3]

In February 2009, after the high-profile killing of Aasiya Zubair, Muslim leaders began a nationwide, unified effort entitled "Imams Speak Out: Domestic Violence Will Not Be Tolerated in Our Communities," asking all imams and religious leaders to discuss domestic violence in their weekly sermon on their Friday prayer services.[4] The group, Muslim Men Against Domestic Violence, was founded soon after the murder.

en.wikipedia.org...

In what would be a classic case of honor abuse, Aiya's family is accused of punishing her for "dishonorable" behavior that included perceived offenses of refusing an arranged marriage and speaking to a boy. According to authorities, the Phoenix woman's alleged punishment was to be brutalized by every adult member of her family. She was allegedly beaten on multiple occasions; held down by her sister and father, who cut her throat; burned with a hot spoon by her mother and finally tied and padlocked to a bed, authorities said.

As an Arabic and observant Muslim husband and father, and as a physician, I cannot imagine how any person could attempt to justify such brutality. The media coverage of her case has granted us a deeper understanding of Aiya's situation when she revealed during an interview, "Here it is not allowed ... but for me, it's normal." Aiya clearly does not know any better.

www.azcentral.com...

Many of the countries most notorious for honour killing are Arab or Muslim countries; Pakistan, Turkey, Iraq, Jordan and Palestine. This feeds a general impression that honour killing is somehow related to Islam, which feeds into a general xenophobia against Muslims; and the phenomenon is used by racists and xenophobes as yet another stick with which to beat Muslims, attempting to characterise these murders as a 'pious act', approved by Islam.

There is, however, no single text in the Quran that justifies these crimes. By contrast, in the Bible, Numbers 26:6-8 show God approving Phineas's public murder of a couple who marry outside tribal boundaries. Most Muslims reject honour killing as a brutal distortion of Islam; discussions of this in terms of the spiritual texts of Islam can be found at the Muslim Women's League, by Dr Mohammed Fadel and at alt.muslim, amongst many others. Many Muslim scholars and clerics have condemned such crimes as a vile and backward distortion of their faith.

www.islamawareness.net...

More evidence (from the link above) that honor killings are cultural rather than solely based on the Muslim religion:

Moreover, the custom predates the Islamic faith, and is by no means unique to Muslim cultures; also, there is little evidence of honour crime occurring in other Muslim countries such as Indonesia. The extent of cultures following the 'honour ethic' is more geographical than ideological, comprising the Indian subcontinent, the Middle East, Eastern Europe and the Mediterranean regions.

This wanton and atrocious murder of a female child HAS NOTHING to do Islam. Please do not be ignorant.

Islam protects womanhood and up to muslims on how to define them, BUT NOT killing them. No where does the Koran say go ahead to kill your child if she looks at boys.

The hiding of women at home or covering them up are only means to protect them from prying eyes and unwanted attention, done out of love for the child. We men know how amorous we are, be honest, and some with totally no responsibility towards those they hunger for other than to assuage an itch.

Good or bad, such teachings of covering up women truly hurts none, when done in love. It is up to the women themselves to prove their confidence that they can handle men, to those who love and care about them, a choice that they can rightfully made by mutual agreement.

The only dangers are when emotions run high and out of control does insanity occurs, such as this sad case.

Furthermore, Islam does not empower ANY human to hurt another without a fair trial in civil cases. Had the child really looked at boys, or was such claims based upon the words of another?

The parents took matters in their own hands, and have nothing to do with Islam.

The thing to do and solely responsible is tribalism. Such killings are the norm in tribal societies, and is what Islam had tried to eradicate by uniting the tribes.

Unfortunately, many imans are not well educated, had not evolve or progress beyond the 7th century Sharia laws which were meant for the normadic barbarians turned civilised muslims by the prophet, and not for a civilised growing population with needs to evolve, but without losing the essence of the prophet's teachings.

When one man gets away with murder committed within a tribe justified as 'honor killing' with no relevance to civilised teachings and rule of societal law, so too another will follow. The parents need to be hauled before a Sharia Court and be served with justice, so that those tribesmen know the full import of Islam, and not to misuse it as and when they please.

reply to post by TheMaverick

Reminds me of a story written by Theodore Sturgeon:
en.wikipedia.org - More Than Human...

In the story a father isolates his two daughters on his property and prohibits them from seeing other boys because he says they have poison on them or something. I'm not sure if he was religious. At one point in the story he finds her with another boy that had squeezed through a hole in a drainage pipe. He became enraged and beat up the boy, but the boy managed to escape. He then beats up his daughter until she's all bloody and this is when her other daughter shows up and sees what's happening. The father goes back to the house and pulls out his gun and puts it in his mouth and blows his brains out. The daughter he beat up dies and the other one lives with the memories.

Honestly, I can imagine parents not wanting their daughter to wear revealing dresses or not wanting her to have sex before she's too young to look after the child, but I can't imagine parents dumping acid on her face if she does what she's not supposed to. I have to think that there were many years where there was disagreement with their daughter and this caused them to despise her. Maybe they thought she was unclean. But I don't see how killing her would make it holy again.

Keep in mind the daugher's a teenager; probably had arguments with them. They must have really hated her or thought she was the worst evil. They had no tolerance at all.

reply to post by TheMaverick


Have you watched the documentary saving face? Nearly damn put me in tears and I'm not even ashamed to say it. The government is corrupt as hell, just like every third world country out there, if you have the money or loads of supporters (local customs that are not even part of Islam) you can get away with almost anything.

They passed a bill a few years ago making it illegal to pour acid on women and torture or burn them, but it doesn't look like it's stopped anyone.

I swear sometimes I just feel like gearing up and putting the law into my own hands.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


Its easy to say its all for their protection, but question is do they have equal rights ? Islam teach man is a superior to woman. Woman are owned by man

"Fair in the eyes of men is the love of things they covet: women and sons, heaped-up hoards of gold and silver; horses..." Surah 3:14

Woman is a sex object

"your wives are as a tilth (a field to be ploughed) unto you, so approach your tilth when or how ye will " Surah 2:223

So honestly it looks like they are protecting something they own, which is not equal to them.

Quran has many words which are related to governing, justice and economics and its not only religion its also a state according to muslims. This is why things gets messy as state and religion should be apart at least in western view of democracy.

Lets see what justice is about

Tarded Religious Zealot Cavedwellers.

Honor?,please.

Dumb.

reply to post by dollukka


I was actually reading on this yesterday, actually the Quran and Prophet Mohammed, said that women should have the right to marry anyone they wish. No father has any business in his daughters marriage decisions, but again most things are taken out of context.

Edit: It's more of culture than religion.


Believers are those who conduct their matters by mutual consultation/counsel [42:38]

Originally posted by dollukka
reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

 

Its easy to say its all for their protection, but question is do they have equal rights ? Islam teach man is a superior to woman. Woman are owned by man

"Fair in the eyes of men is the love of things they covet: women and sons, heaped-up hoards of gold and silver; horses..." Surah 3:14

Woman is a sex object

"your wives are as a tilth (a field to be ploughed) unto you, so approach your tilth when or how ye will " Surah 2:223

So honestly it looks like they are protecting something they own, which is not equal to them.

And you don't think the Bible has similar passages? Take a look at this:

www.nobeliefs.com...

I'm telling you, it's a cultural thing. Most societies have found a way to conveniently ignore the animalistic chauvinistic tribal ways of the past, regardless of what their outdated religious documents say. It's just those pockets of peoples who cling to it. I personally know a couple of Muslim-American families where the women are treated as equals, and encouraged to get an education and become successful and independent. And yes, they consider themselves devout Muslims.

Here's the trailer to saving face:



2012 Academy Award WINNER For Documentary (Short Subject)

reply to post by kaylaluv


Old testament do, but its not been followed by word to word today. There is the difference, do you follow some writings which are thousands years old or use a common sense.

Originally posted by dollukka
reply to post by kaylaluv

 

Old testament do, but its not been followed by word to word today. There is the difference, do you follow some writings which are thousands years old or use a common sense.

Most modern Christians use common sense, as do most Muslims. But I know some Christians who still try to follow the Old Testament. And there are plenty of fundamentalist Christians who feel that women should be subservient to their husbands. Heck, there are Catholics who won't get divorced just because Jesus made a comment about it -- even though common sense would tell us that sometimes divorce is the best option!

reply to post by LostPassword

I am not defending this, but let me guess number of you are thinking Hey maybe we should BOMB THEM, destroy their infrastructure, water, electricity, hospitals Kill 100 000 of hem indirectly, make them hungry and sick........yeah that's how we will spread democracy and freedom. Sarcasm.

I be straight with you here, if any country in the world at this moment in time , needs to have its infrastructure dismantled and rebuilt by the west, its pakistan, for a start we need to take away these barbarian nuclear weapons.

reply to post by dollukka


The problem of ignorant people are when they start cherry picking religious qoutes, which can be 'misinterpretated' in any way to suit the target audience, the way 'statistics' are often used.

The central tenats of Islam is what you should be comprehending, after studying the bible and the koran, then you will realize what the teachings were all about.

Some claim the recorders in those scriptures are only human and flawed, and mistakes would be made, but would EVERY scribe make the same mistakes? Cross referencing with history and anthropology of our current civilisation will give you a better perspective on those two chronicles of human history. Reading is good, but COMPREHENSION is MORE VITAL.

There can be no denial that Sharia law needs reformation to keep up with the needs of a growing and prospering people without losing its essence. But it can only come through better education, not just based upon 7th century laws, but a wider civilisational scope that encompasses the traits of a civilised modern nation - politics, socio-economic issues.

It will take time, just as protestant christians evolved from judiac laws to English common laws that is universally adopted today. The muslim world needs mankind's encouragement to grow, reform and progress, and not ignorantly made accusations towards a religion that had survived for 1300 years, even when it was misused by the greedy for personal self glorification agendas.

HOWEVER, what I had written here and your post have NOTHING to do with this thread, which is simply a case of another deluded human or humans whom decided to take matters into their hands instead of relying upon the Rule of Law that is common in all nations.

As this case happened in Pakistan, and Pakistan DO have a standard Rule of Law unlike opressive states such as Cuba, Iran, Venezuela, China and Russia, the authorities must ensure that justice is served.

This is barbaric behaviors. Has nothing to do with the Islam teachings.
Don't belong in any civilized culture.
These parents should be punished.
I'd like to have a talk with people like this. I just wanna know what goes in their mind when they do such things.

Originally posted by CALGARIAN

Originally posted by Osiris1953
reply to post by CALGARIAN

 

Nope not married, it seems they were upset because they thought she was having an affair with one of the boys without their consent. At least that's the impression I got from the article.

Do you know what an "affair" is?

You heading is SO NOT relevant...
SOO, what if she was married.
You DO NOT!! kill your own children PERIOD..
They will BURN in their hell for this.
Heck, you dont do ANY harm to your own..DOUBLE PERIOD...

If this is as is, i mean as the story says.

imagine if the church managed to take over the religious world and instead of education there was religious education. It would be just like Pakistan now, completely illogical thinking.

There all just uneducated. Religion and fear have long been tools of total control in that region