Abortion - Free Will and Responsibility of Women, NOT Mankind

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101


Life truly begins at conception, and as human lives, we humans do have a responsiblity as we had been given free will and grow into sentient beings.

The physical host body (in our case human) begins at first breath.

Soul consciousness enters the physical host body - - at its time of choosing.

Soul consciousness is eternal - - - it does not cease to exist when physical does.

The physical host body is not sentient without the soul consciousness.

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101

There is a difference between sentient life and microbial life that both gnostics and atheists, or those whom find comfort in our limited knowledge of science can agree upon.

We humans are not created and meant as microbial life, forever destined to play within protoplasmic pools.

For the religious faithfuls, we sentient beings - humans, are created, with a destiny planned - to the stars. No microbial life can do that on their own without sentient help, something that even science can agree.

Life truly begins at conception, and as human lives, we humans do have a responsiblity as we had been given free will and grow into sentient beings.

edit on 8-11-2012 by SeekerofTruth101 because: (no reason given)

I couldn't of said it better! Human life begins at conception and should be protected.

Originally posted by GideonFaith


I couldn't of said it better! Human life begins at conception and should be protected.

You are entitled to your belief.

Just stay out of mine - - because I do not agree with your belief.

I have my own belief.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by GideonFaith


I couldn't of said it better! Human life begins at conception and should be protected.

You are entitled to your belief.

Just stay out of mine - - because I do not agree with your belief.

I have my own belief.

So, if you have your belief and I have my belief. How am I in your beliefs? I didn't post anything about you or your beliefs. So, just stay out of mine.

Originally posted by Quadrivium
reply to post by Southern Guardian

 

Once again.......

Based on universally accepted scientific criteria, a new cell, the human zygote, comes into
existence at the moment of sperm-egg fusion, an event that occurs in less than a
second. Upon formation, the zygote immediately initiates a complex sequence of
events that establish the molecular conditions required for continued embryonic
development. The behavior of the zygote is radically unlike that of either sperm
or egg separately and is characteristic of a human organism. Thus, the scientific
evidence supports the conclusion that a zygote is a human organism and that the
life of a new human being commences at a scientifically well defined “moment of
conception.” This conclusion is objective, consistent with the factual evidence, and
independent of any specific ethical, moral, political, or religious view of human life
or of human embryos.

bdfund.org...
Not a word about "beliefs" in there.

So, if I am correct, you believe that when an abortion occurs then a humans life has not been taken away?

Interesting. So by definition, humans can be reduced to a group of cells, which a zygote is. I guess we're not as special as we thought we were.

In animal development, the term zygote is also used more loosely to refer to the group of cells formed by the first few cell divisions, although this is properly referred to as a morula.

I hear cysts and cancer are also made of human cells. I would hope people think twice about getting them removed.

Originally posted by GideonFaith

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by GideonFaith


I couldn't of said it better! Human life begins at conception and should be protected.

You are entitled to your belief.

Just stay out of mine - - because I do not agree with your belief.

I have my own belief.

So, if you have your belief and I have my belief. How am I in your beliefs? I didn't post anything about you or your beliefs. So, just stay out of mine.

As long as I have legal Pro Choice.

Not a problem.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope


I hear cysts and cancer are also made of human cells. I would hope people think twice about getting them removed.

I find that I have to repeat myself A LOT in this thread.

If a woman has an abortion it is removing human life.
If cancer is removed it, most likely, will prolong human life.




Big difference.

I am speaking about myself here and I was only two months pregnant, I had a Dr. and nurse tell me I was losing my baby and it was out of my hands. That there was no way a baby could survive all that. The fear and worry of losing a baby to me was like someone had killed me inside. After many prayers that day and night, they sent me home to let the process happen. As a young married woman, I was terrified. After a long night and morning, I went back to my regular Dr. who performed and ultrasound and after a few scary, terrified moments, they found a tiny heartbeat and couldn't believe it. There were no words to explain the relief I got from that tiny rhythm. Today, he is a senior in high school and is healthy. In my wording, I used the term "baby" even when by medical terms it was not a baby. From the first day I knew I was pregnant and still today, he is my baby and always will be. I believe that any human that has living cells and a heartbeat is worthy of life and to have that life protected at all cost. Do I believe there are some circumstances where a mothers life is in danger of death and the decision to save the mother or baby from death is an issue? Then yes, you should have the right to decide whether to save one life or the other. I also believe that if at any way both lives can be saved, it should be. This is my belief and my story.

Originally posted by MonkeyFishFrog
reply to post by beezzersbride

 

Funny you should mention that.

About 10-15 years ago my aunt had her fallopian tubes tied because she didn't want to have anymore kids. A couple of years after the procedure my aunt suddenly started to have severe pain in her abdomen and they rushed her to the hospital.

She was pregnant.

The fertilized egg had attached to her fallopian tube and had they not caught it any sooner they might have ruptured and died.

She was a staunch Pro-Lifer until this. Now she is Pro-Choice because of what she experienced.

So you do make a choice but sometimes they come from real places not just opinions.

edit on 11/8/2012 by MonkeyFishFrog because: (no reason given)

Fact: For every 1 of her (women who abort out of medical necessity), there are over 50 who abort perfectly healthy babies because of social issues.

Originally posted by Bone75

Originally posted by MonkeyFishFrog
reply to post by beezzersbride

 

Funny you should mention that.

About 10-15 years ago my aunt had her fallopian tubes tied because she didn't want to have anymore kids. A couple of years after the procedure my aunt suddenly started to have severe pain in her abdomen and they rushed her to the hospital.

She was pregnant.



The fertilized egg had attached to her fallopian tube and had they not caught it any sooner they might have ruptured and died.

She was a staunch Pro-Lifer until this. Now she is Pro-Choice because of what she experienced.

So you do make a choice but sometimes they come from real places not just opinions.

edit on 11/8/2012 by MonkeyFishFrog because: (no reason given)

Fact: For every 1 of her (women who abort out of medical necessity), there are over 50 who abort perfectly healthy babies because of social issues.

uh oh Bone, you shouldn't have said that.
From experience, they do not like facts on this thread, they overlook them and when you show them again they tell you "that's just your belief". Then after all that they have the nerve to tell you "your logic is screwed up"
Quad

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by GideonFaith


I couldn't of said it better! Human life begins at conception and should be protected.

You are entitled to your belief.

Just stay out of mine - - because I do not agree with your belief.

I have my own belief.

I'm confused. You believe in a soul consciousness, and that this consciousness chooses its "host". If you truly believe this, then how in your mind is a zygote NOT a conscious being?

Originally posted by Quadrivium

uh oh Bone, you shouldn't have said that.
From experience, they do not like facts on this thread, they overlook them and when you show them again they tell you "that's just your belief". Then after all that they have the nerve to tell you "your logic is screwed up"

Quad

Right and we're also horrible, insensitive, self righteous, holier than thou pricks who should be ashamed of ourselves for standing up for those evil little zygotes.

The wold has gone mad I tell ya.

Originally posted by Bone75

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by GideonFaith


I couldn't of said it better! Human life begins at conception and should be protected.

You are entitled to your belief.

Just stay out of mine - - because I do not agree with your belief.

I have my own belief.

I'm confused. You believe in a soul consciousness, and that this consciousness chooses its "host". If you truly believe this, then how in your mind is a zygote NOT a conscious being?

Soul Consciousness is energy - not physical. (I don't normally call Energy Consciousness "soul")

The Energy Consciousness attaches or enters the physical "host" - - when it is ready. It may not enter until after the physical birth or just before.

This is one belief I was raised with. I didn't just invent it as an excuse.

My mom believed in "many paths" and each person must find their own.

Originally posted by Annee

Soul Consciousness is energy - not physical. (I don't normally call Energy Consciousness "soul")

The Energy Consciousness attaches or enters the physical "host" - - when it is ready. It may not enter until after the physical birth or just before.

What are the indicators that this possession has taken place? Does the baby (sorry I think you prefer fetus) start doing backflips in the womb or something?

Originally posted by Bone75

Originally posted by Annee

Soul Consciousness is energy - not physical. (I don't normally call Energy Consciousness "soul")

The Energy Consciousness attaches or enters the physical "host" - - when it is ready. It may not enter until after the physical birth or just before.

What are the indicators that this possession has taken place? Does the baby (sorry I think you prefer fetus) start doing backflips in the womb or something?

Are you religious? If you are - please explain how you prove it.

This is my belief. I am not the only person with this belief.

I don't really think I need to explain consciousness to you. Or debate how you believe humans develop consciousness.

Originally posted by Annee
Are you religious? If you are - please explain how you prove it.

This is my belief. I am not the only person with this belief.

I don't really think I need to explain consciousness to you. Or debate how you believe humans develop consciousness.

Sorry to disappoint, but I'm not religious at all. I believe that anything's possible and that the idea of a soul consciousness would explain a lot of things, including my primal instinct that ending a pregnancy is wrong.
Society didn't convince me of this, I was born with it... so were you.
But you said yourself that you were taught differently.

Originally posted by Bone75

Originally posted by Annee
Are you religious? If you are - please explain how you prove it.

This is my belief. I am not the only person with this belief.

I don't really think I need to explain consciousness to you. Or debate how you believe humans develop consciousness.

Sorry to disappoint, but I'm not religious at all. I believe that anything's possible and that the idea of a soul consciousness would explain a lot of things, including my primal instinct that ending a pregnancy is wrong.
Society didn't convince me of this, I was born with it... so were you.
But you said yourself that you were taught differently.

OK - - well I consider myself atheist. My "belief" would fall under science. I do not believe in any religious concept of a god or omnipotent being judging me.

Sorry - - no way do I believe you or anyone else was born with a primal instinct against abortion. Its an influence of society. But you can believe as you wish.

There are societies that use abortion to keep their population down because they live where food and other resources are scarce. If you were raised in that society I think you'd agree it was a necessity of survival.

Originally posted by troubleshooter
reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

 

I have put forward this view many times...

Unless you are a women carrying the fetus it is none of your business.

Tell to the Creator when the time comes. That baby belongs to God and is my brother or sister.
sad eyed lady mourns every aborted child - 117 million in the US.

So I decided to have a little read into the source, and I also did digging behind the institute, since in the article it did indeed claim that a fertilized egg was a human being. What did I find? Well to start, the institution is religiously based, it's executive director is Rev Thomas V. Berg who is religiously vocal, and a well known opponent of evolution, stem cell research.

While Maureen is clearly an educated woman, her word isn't the all abiding authority on the consensus from the scientific community. She wrote an argument on the side of the pro-life debate, her position is among the minority. You seem to think Quad that because there are articles out there supporting your position, this is automatically a fact, but it doesn't make it so.

reply to post by Quadrivium

 

If a child is aborted then a human life is taken away.

When semen die, human life is taken away as well. When you cut your hair, you're killing human life. Human life does not automatically mean human being.

If people like you really valued the lives of children, you'd be spending more of your time supporting social programmes that single mothers (those who chose the path away from abortion) rely so heavily on, you'd be spending more of your time giving back to adoption services, you'd be focusing on those poor children in places like Ghana or India. Instead all of you tend to spend 99% of your time arguing why women (including those who have been raped) should be forced and shamed into pregnancy again their will. You hide behind your behind "morals" as an excuse, when really you couldn't give a damn about human life outside the body.

Once that child is outof the womb, you couldn't give a damn, because then this ends an opportunity for you to dictate what somebody else must do.

Originally posted by Bone75
Fact: For every 1 of her (women who abort out of medical necessity), there are over 50 who abort perfectly healthy babies because of social issues.

Too bad you don't have the job of telling that raped women that she must go through the pain of pregnancy because of your morals and ethics. Instead of taking out numbers to justify your cause, again, why should a raped women be forced or punished in anyway? Or wait, you're going to tell me that this isn't your position right?