Abortion - Free Will and Responsibility of Women, NOT Mankind

reply to post by MonkeyFishFrog


Last I checked a woman has to ALLOW him access. She KNOWS she has the responsibility of getting pregnant. Therefore, she controls both your penis and her vagina by allowing you access or telling you no. So if she is shouldering the bodily burden of getting pregnant, then she better improve her choices of saying no or using the pill and a condom. Otherwise, she accepted the possible burden of getting pregnant if she opens her legs.

This is why I said in the case of rape, or severe medical reasons should a choice only be allowed to the mother. Just because it isn't the sex you want, it was an accident, you're scared, or you got a business promotion, none of these warrant an abortion; it warrants a to bad so sad.

reply to post by milkyway12


Are you kidding me?!

It has always been a man's choice. For ALL of history. Look at our society that rewards a man for taking several partners and exalts the "eligible" bachelor status. If a woman took several partners then she is a slut, if she doesn't she is a prude and if she isn't ever married its because something in wrong with her.

For every woman getting pregnant there is a man behind it.

For every abortion there is typically a man going "end it or I'm leaving you".

Keep ignoring the role men play in this social issue and it will keep continuing as is.

Women never win. Either its should've kept your legs together or you were trying to trap him with a pregnancy.

reply to post by MonkeyFishFrog


I dont know about you, but i wouldnt want a woman who has had several partners raising my child, we obviously do not share the same values. So ... if a woman doesnt want a man who has had several partners ..... then she should make that choice and look for men outside a club or a bar.

Men have made the choice for pregnancy? Really? That is an insult to human intelligence. A woman, if i remember correctly, owns her own body .. so .. she should accept the full knowledge that if she is having sex, she runs the risk of pregnancy .. and accepts its consequences and rewards if she gets "unlucky".

I dont see how you can refute that. Actually, you cant. Except in the case of rape ...

reply to post by MonkeyFishFrog


I do agree with you that in our past, men had always made the choices over women's role is society, as ours had been a male dominated society.

But not anymore.

They had proven themselve equal to men intellectually when given the chance at the most crtical aspect for progress - education. Many of them had change our world for the better such as Indira Gandhi, Suu Kyi, Hillary Clinton, etc.

What women need now is to embrace moral and ethical guidelines, so that they can play along with the same rules as men, and that can only come through home and school education.

Equally, all judges in the states must make their judgements upon the realities of today's womanhood and the achievements they had been in terms of opportunities at education and career, unlike the days of older uneducated women generations.

reply to post by milkyway12


Once again the focus is only on the woman. Not the man who dupes women into his bed and then leaves them just as quickly. The only one who has to deal with the consequences of that interaction is the woman. Right then and there it should be case closed a woman's decision. However, you'll usually find that even with one-night stands the woman will try to contact the man to inform them and ask what they should do. Even a woman decides to keep the baby and her and the man aren't together, she is stigmatized then for having a baby out of wedlock.

Like I said, women lose no matter what as long as its only their participation focused on.

If you are going to call abortion murder then start holding a funeral for every miscarriage, and moments of silence for eggs and sperms the body expels.

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
reply to post by MonkeyFishFrog

 

I do agree with you that in our past, men had always made the choices over women's role is society, as ours had been a male dominated society.

But not anymore.

The fact that you still have men going on the news and saying that pregnancy through rape is not reason enough for an abortion or that a woman's body has some magical function that prevents pregnancy if she is being raped. You don't think of women as equal at all. That's why women are still fighting... why the Lily Ledbetter bill was passed.

They had proven themselve equal to men intellectually when given the chance at the most crtical aspect for progress - education. Many of them had change our world for the better such as Indira Gandhi, Suu Kyi, Hillary Clinton, etc.

Women have always been equal to men. Men just never liked that idea.

What women need now is to embrace moral and ethical guidelines, so that they can play along with the same rules as men, and that can only come through home and school education.

Morality in home has historically been one of the main duties of a wife and motherhood. That is how the first feminist movements were able to organize because they did it under the banner of protecting the morality of family. It is now the turn of men to learn about morality and what thousands of years of suppressing a gender means when they finally start to take back their position is society as an equal.

Equally, all judges in the states must make their judgements upon the realities of today's womanhood and the achievements they had been in terms of opportunities at education and career, unlike the days of older uneducated women generations.

The reality is still that the only proper pursuit for a woman is family. Women have less opportunities to go to school unless it is through loans, they earn less (between 30-40%) to do the same job as a male coworker. If a woman works and also has a family she is expected to go to work for 8 hours a day and then go home and work another 4 1/2 doing household duties, taking care of the children.

What if She Would Have Said Yes?

Almost 39 years ago,
a woman made a choice.
She made a choice for me,
because I did not have a voice.

She was hemorrhaging badly;
Blood was everywhere.
To the hospital she went
for the pain she could not bear

The doctors searched
but only one heartbeat they found.
It was hers and hers alone;
The other did not make a sound.

They scheduled a surgery
called a DNC.
They told her it was necessary
to rid her body of ME!

The day before the surgery
a nurse checked her again.
The look on her face
was just short of a grin.

A tiny heartbeat she found
which brought the doctor to the room.
He listened himself,
yet his look was of gloom

“The baby is not viable,
and will be born brain dead
It will be a burden on your family.
How about an abortion?” he said.

She argued with the doctor,
but he would not give way
“You have three boys already.
Why put them through this disarray?”

“He will never walk or talk,
or do anything for himself
The rest of your family?
You may as well but their lives on a shelf”.

My mother was strong
and I can almost hear her say;
“He can be born a two headed monkey
But I am having him anyway”.

A few months later,
a baby boy was born
The doctors were shocked,
For there were no reasons to mourn.

They checked the baby,
looking for some sign.
Of things they had told her,
but it was not HIS design.

Now, almost 39 years later,
I have three boys of my own.
I am healthy and intelligent.
How had she known?

I thank God for my mother
and His guiding hand.
When faced with the choice,
my mother made a stand.

She chose not to abort me.
I am happy I confess.
No need for me to worry about
"What if she had said yes"?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Millions of babies have no voice
Glad I did.
Just saying,
Quad

Originally posted by milkyway12
reply to post by Annee

 

That is why we SHOULD make it your interest. By charging you with murder.

Again - - that is your personal belief.

Abortion is legal - - therefore not murder. This is a fact - - not a belief.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by Annee

But - you are not making any sense.

You are not pro-choice because you think the Government should choose where my tax money goes. Your opinion is that Government choice is better than personal choice. There is nothing to make sense of, thats your stance.

Society does not begin and end on your back porch.

There are many things taxes pay for that I do not agree with - - - but I am only a single person in a complex society.

Enjoy your "island".

reply to post by MonkeyFishFrog


You are the kind of people when I meant there are broader issues involved in abortion than a belief in a simple ban on abortions will resolve the issue. It won't and only a fool will believe in it.

Male and female do have physical differences, even if the mental capacity is the same, or adherence to moral and eithical guidelines which most females already do except for some which is the same case as for men. Only in acknowledging such differences can we both male and female find common grounds to stand on.

And that can only come with more open and transparent sharing, discussions and debates to find that common ground so that all can co-exist fairly, for progress and evolution of our our species, and innocent future generations.

Accusations, belligerences, ignorances, confrontations and condemnations of each other will only get us nowhere. Peaceful intelligent dialogues is needed by religions and civil society if we are to progress. It has to begin somewhere, if not for us, it will be for the innocent next generations to be spared of the pain and suffering we all currently are going through.

reply to post by Annee


It was also legal to own slaves.

2nd.

Originally posted by milkyway12
reply to post by Annee

 

It was also legal to own slaves.

2nd.

But it wasn't legal to abort when you owned slaves.

We have progressed.

reply to post by Annee


What ...? Lol good thing Mr. Fish and you aren't lawyers.

Originally posted by milkyway12
reply to post by Annee

 

What ...? Lol good thing Mr. Fish and you aren't lawyers.

You don't know anything about me other then what I've posted.

Are you a lawyer?

reply to post by Annee


Annee, this thread may have gone too far down the path for me to ask you. And, if you don't want to answer, by all means don't answer (or if you would rather, you can U2U me).

All these years later, do you regret the decision you made?

I have my own very strong feelings about the topic, but generally those feelings only relate to me and mine. And I hope you understnad I don't ask in judgement of any form. I am just curious.

reply to post by Annee


I don't need to know anything other than you think killing babies is a progression of humanity ... hopefully your age will limit the existence of your opinion .. soon.

You're infuriating in the fact that you take pride in killing your children.

---

I think i need to take a break / leave the thread before i get banned.

Yeah, i'm leaving the thread. It isn't fair to you or me with this anger i am feeling toward you right now. Have a nice .. life.

Originally posted by milkyway12
reply to post by Annee

 

I don't need to know anything other than you think killing babies is a progression of humanity ... hopefully your age will limit the existence of your opinion .. soon.

You're infuriating in the fact that you take pride in killing your children.

---

I think i need to take a break / leave the thread before i get banned.

edit on 6-11-2012 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)

I think you are right. Because i swear, reading your posts in this thread is like reading the world most morose teenager abuse hyperbole like my grandmother abuses paisley.

While I am not proabortion by any stretch, I think that with how adamant you are about it being killing, that you have a burden to prove that it is killing. When you are done, please present your data and see if you can change the law.

Otherwise, you just look like an abusive jerk, sitting on a forum casting judgment on complete strangers.

Originally posted by milkyway12
reply to post by Annee

 

What ...? Lol good thing Mr. Fish and you aren't lawyers.

edit on 6-11-2012 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)

That's MonkeyFishFrog to you.

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
reply to post by MonkeyFishFrog

 

You are the kind of people when I meant there are broader issues involved in abortion than a belief in a simple ban on abortions will resolve the issue. It won't and only a fool will believe in it.

Male and female do have physical differences, even if the mental capacity is the same, or adherence to moral and eithical guidelines which most females already do except for some which is the same case as for men. Only in acknowledging such differences can we both male and female find common grounds to stand on.

And that can only come with more open and transparent sharing, discussions and debates to find that common ground so that all can co-exist fairly, for progress and evolution of our our species, and innocent future generations.

Accusations, belligerences, ignorances, confrontations and condemnations of each other will only get us nowhere. Peaceful intelligent dialogues is needed by religions and civil society if we are to progress. It has to begin somewhere, if not for us, it will be for the innocent next generations to be spared of the pain and suffering we all currently are going through.

I am a firm believer that if you want to stop abortions you have to address the social issues that make it so people seek them.

Historically, the responsibility of children and raising them has always fallen solely on the shoulders of the mother. Yet when you finally get a single father situation, you're expected to applaud him, pat him on the back and give him accolades. Mothers are stigmatized for choosing the wrong bed partner, for using government funds to provide for her children, or for being neglectful when she does have a job to support her family.

From what I have read on this thread it is that people want their cake and eat it too. People don't want abortions to be legal but then complain when having to pay taxes for food stamp programs for hungry children. People want abortions illegal but also don't want proper sexual education in schools or subsidized contraceptives to prevent unwanted pregnancies.

You can't have it both ways.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by Annee

 

Annee, this thread may have gone too far down the path for me to ask you. And, if you don't want to answer, by all means don't answer (or if you would rather, you can U2U me).

All these years later, do you regret the decision you made?

I have my own very strong feelings about the topic, but generally those feelings only relate to me and mine. And I hope you understnad I don't ask in judgement of any form. I am just curious.

Absolutely I will answer you. It took me a while before I openly talked about it (before ATS). Not that I was ashamed - - its just a private issue people don't usually talk about.

Its odd - - I've brought this up in several threads before - - and I think you are the first person to ask me a question about it.

NO - - I do not regret it at all. It was the right decision for me and my circumstances.

Honestly - - there is not ONE unselfish reason to bring a child into this world. There are multitudes of unselfish reasons not to.

All my life the only thing I ever wanted was to have children. When other girls about age 12 were playing with Barbie's - - I had a baby doll. Ugliest rubber doll with cloth body I ever saw that looked like a squished face newborn.

I was one of the "I would never have an abortion". You don't know! Very few people know what they will do when faced with certain circumstances.

I remember a talk show. I think it was Phil Donohue. There was a panel of 5 white haired men sitting side by side in chairs discussing abortion and women's right to abortion. Phil sitting in the middle started laughing. He continued laughing uncontrollably til he practically fell off his chair. Then he got up and said: Look at you. Look at you 4 old gray haired men sitting there telling women what they're rights are. You look ridiculous. And they did.

A similar situation happened recently in government (forget which state) - - where a panel was put together on women's rights. Not one woman was on the panel. Not one woman was allowed on the panel.

So now when I come into these type threads I post my story - - my real experience. "Hey! I made this decision. I actually experienced it. Where does your position come from? If its a belief system - - then it's your belief system etc etc".