Abortion - Free Will and Responsibility of Women, NOT Mankind

Okay Split, I'll break it down for you a little better this time...

My post:

You're letting terminology get in the way of common sense. Yes, sperm is human life. Yes, the ovum is human life, but a fertilized egg is A human life.

DNA tests on all 3 can prove it if you like.

Your response:

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
Your conclusion is fundamentally Flawed. I can do a DNA test on a STRAND OF HUMAN HAIR with a FOLLICLE....and it will give me the same data that a DNA test will give me on a Cell taken from a Clump of Cells that are dividing and have implanted themselves in the Uterine Wall.

I underlined where you are fundamentally wrong. This point is important to the discussion, which is why I feel it mustn't be overlooked before we continue on to beliefs.

A DNA test on a strand of the mother's hair will NOT give you the same data as a Clump of Cells that are dividing and have implanted themselves in her Uterine Wall. To be clear, I'm assuming you're referring to a fertilized egg or zygote? You're not referring to cancer are you? If you are referring to cancer, then yes you are correct (but I don't think you're referring to cancer). If you're referring to a zygote, then you are wrong.

The HAIR STRAND is NOT ALIVE but the Dead Hair cells will give me Living Cells still even those these Cells also have Human DNA these Cells will not have the ability to naturally grow into a Child.

How in your mind is a hair strand even remotely comparable to a fertilized egg? You're not making sense.

Point is that just because something can be tested to have Human DNA does not mean it is a Human Being

This is where you're getting the conversation twisted and again avoiding MY point. When I said "a DNA test on all 3 could prove it if you like", I was referring to DNA comparison between the 3, and not a test for human DNA.

I'm not even gonna address the cabbage and carrots.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by MonkeyFishFrog

 

There's no sense debating the non sensible. Anyone who believes that a female should taught her role in society based on biology, and should die for objecting to her biological fate, isn't worth another finger flick on my keyboard.
.

Someone in one of these abortion threads mentioned: Medieval.

Pretty much sums it up.

BTW - - my role in society is anything I make it.

Someone in this abortion thread mentioned: Parasites

Have I mentioned roaches yet?

reply to post by Bone75

I do not dispute your post as I was speaking in General Terms and of course you are right in that a Fertilized Egg would have Different DNA that the Cells of a Human Hair Follicle as the DNA would be different...but what my meaning was is that both HAVE Human DNA as well as the now DEAD Hair. The Hair was at one time a Living Cell that was excreted and containing Protein.

My Point is that just because something is ALIVE as you have used this argument that LIFE BEGINS AT CONCEPTION. I stated that Life was present BEFORE conception as both the Egg and Sperm are independent LIFE FORMS. And thus to argue using the statement LIFE Begins at Conception is fundamentally flawed.

That is my point. Split Infinity

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by Bone75

 

I do not dispute your post as I was speaking in General Terms and of course you are right in that a Fertilized Egg would have Different DNA that the Cells of a Human Hair Follicle as the DNA would be different...but what my meaning was is that both HAVE Human DNA as well as the now DEAD Hair. The Hair was at one time a Living Cell that was excreted and containing Protein.

My Point is that just because something is ALIVE as you have used this argument that LIFE BEGINS AT CONCEPTION. I stated that Life was present BEFORE conception as both the Egg and Sperm are independent LIFE FORMS. And thus to argue using the statement LIFE Begins at Conception is fundamentally flawed.

That is my point. Split Infinity

Y'all seem to be having a lovely discussion and I hate to butt in..............but I can not seem to help myself.
Split, you are right.
Life was present before conception. In the form of a sperm and an egg. They are not independent life forms however. They are part of a life form. The sperm is from a male life form, the egg from a female.
When they join together they become an entirely new INDEPENDENT life form.

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by Bone75

 

I do not dispute your post as I was speaking in General Terms and of course you are right in that a Fertilized Egg would have Different DNA that the Cells of a Human Hair Follicle as the DNA would be different...but what my meaning was is that both HAVE Human DNA as well as the now DEAD Hair. The Hair was at one time a Living Cell that was excreted and containing Protein.

My Point is that just because something is ALIVE as you have used this argument that LIFE BEGINS AT CONCEPTION. I stated that Life was present BEFORE conception as both the Egg and Sperm are independent LIFE FORMS. And thus to argue using the statement LIFE Begins at Conception is fundamentally flawed.

That is my point. Split Infinity

And my point is that MY DNA (the same DNA you can find in my hair follicles and excrement), is the very same DNA that was created at the moment of my conception. My life, your life, all of our lives began at conception. That is fact. There is no wiggle room on this one.

What you are doing is exactly what prompted my original post to begin with...

You're letting terminology get in the way of common sense. Notice what happens when you add just one letter...

"And thus to argue using the statement LIFE Begins at Conception is fundamentally flawed." = TRUE

"And thus to argue using the statement A LIFE Begins at Conception is fundamentally flawed." = FALSE

Originally Posted by Bone75
You're letting terminology get in the way of common sense. Yes, sperm is human life. Yes, the ovum is human life, but a fertilized egg is A human life.

Okay now that we've done a pretty good job of establishing that A life begins at conception, and that this is scientific fact that doesn't require belief. Shall we move on? Or are we still stuck on this?

reply to post by Bone75

I NEVER SAID what you just quoted as I never had A LIVE in my statements. Your quote after your statement that says QUOTE is not my words also.

You are suiting and changing reality to your needs. Bad Move. Split Infinity

Originally posted by Bone75

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by MonkeyFishFrog

 

There's no sense debating the non sensible. Anyone who believes that a female should taught her role in society based on biology, and should die for objecting to her biological fate, isn't worth another finger flick on my keyboard.
.

Someone in one of these abortion threads mentioned: Medieval.

Pretty much sums it up.

BTW - - my role in society is anything I make it.

Someone in this abortion thread mentioned: Parasites

Have I mentioned roaches yet?

Yes - - I stated a fetus is a Parasite - - - because that is exactly what it is.

Roaches? What you are trying to do is make personal insults.

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by Bone75

 

I NEVER SAID what you just quoted as I never had A LIVE in my statements. Your quote after your statement that says QUOTE is not my words also.

You are suiting and changing reality to your needs. Bad Move. Split Infinity

Noted and fixed.

If I have to fill in all of the blanks for you guys, we're never gonna get anywhere.

Originally posted by Bone75
Okay now that we've done a pretty good job of establishing that A life begins at conception, and that this is scientific fact that doesn't require belief. Shall we move on? Or are we still stuck on this?

Life is present BEFORE CONCEPTION. This is the CRUX of the issue. Whether you talk about Living Sperm and Egg Cells or a Living Fertilized Egg Cell...even all three Life Forms are Alive and Self Determinant...THIS LIFE IS NOT SENTIENT. It has a POTENTIAL to be more than it currently is at such a point but it is only a POTENTIAL and not a SENTIENT.

Living Food that we eat such as various forms of Plant Life also is a POTENTIAL and not SENTIENT. The Carrot or Soy Beans we eat is comprised of Living Cells that once digested and converted into Proteins, Carbs and Fat as well as Nutrients which are used to CREATE A SPERM OR EGG CELL. Thus at a Chemical Level Humans were at one time...FOOD! Just as this Living Food we have Living Cells and Living Fertilized Cells ALL OF WHICH ARE NOT SENTIENT. The Carrot and Soybean is JUST AS IMPORTANT TO HUMAN FETAL DEVELOPMENT as without this FOOD a person could not create a Sperm or Egg cell...as is the Fertilized Egg itself. In both cases a child cannot be born if either of these things were not present. Logic thus determines that if Values of a thing are EQUAL so must be equal the POTENTIAL OF A THING.

Since by both Math and Logic the Value of FOOD is EQUAL to the VALUE of a FERTILIZED CELL as how each pertain to their benefit towards the existence of a CHILD...GREATER VALUE can only be determined by the existence of SENTIENCE. This is the LOGIC that dictates that it is only at the time that a developing Fetus obtains SENTIENCE is it truly a CHILD as well as having ACTUAL VALUE equal to a LIVING ADULT HUMAN.
The MATH never lies! Split Infinity

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Bone75

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by MonkeyFishFrog

 

There's no sense debating the non sensible. Anyone who believes that a female should taught her role in society based on biology, and should die for objecting to her biological fate, isn't worth another finger flick on my keyboard.
.

Someone in one of these abortion threads mentioned: Medieval.

Pretty much sums it up.

BTW - - my role in society is anything I make it.

Someone in this abortion thread mentioned: Parasites

Have I mentioned roaches yet?

Yes - - I stated a fetus is a Parasite - - - because that is exactly what it is.

Roaches? What you are trying to do is make personal insults.

I find you referring to a fetus as a parasite insulting whether you favor the comparison or not...

But I don't hit that alert button when I read one of your parasite comments because I WANT people to read them.

I hold my tongue when you make those comments because I know you're trying to provoke an emotional response (which is in the works by the way), and get the thread shut down. I've watched you guys do it over and over again and I'm tired of it.

reply to post by SplitInfinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity


Split,
Could you possibly break your last post down a little further? I am having a hard time understanding your exact meaning.
Just curious, is English your native language? Not trying to be a smart behind, just curious.

Maybe Bone can give some insight.
I understood the first half perfectly well. Having trouble with the second half.
Quad

reply to post by Bone75



I totally agree Bone.

reply to post by SplitInfinity

Ok split,
I have read back over it a few times and I think I understand what you are trying to say.
So by your "logic" it would be ok to pull the plug on all the people in a coma and let them starve to death?
After all they are not really senteit.

Senteit:
1 : responsive to or conscious of sense impressions
2 : AWARE
3 : finely sensitive in perception or feeling

i.word.com...

reply to post by Quadrivium

It is a Mathematical Representation that determines VALUE. This is what is at debate here that being what is the exact VALUE that can be assigned to a Fertilized Egg. If a Fertilized Egg is represented as 1E and the Living Food which Humans Eat is represented as 1F...and we all can agree that a CHILD cannot exist without either the existence of a Fertilized Egg which we assign a Value of 1....and neither can a Child exist without the Food needed to be ingested and used as raw material in an Adult Human Body in order for the body to create either a Sperm Cell or an Egg Cell so we assign Food also with a Value of 1. Then this is how the Math Dictates Value and Potential.

1F with F=1 is 1XF or 1X1=1
1E with E=1 is 1XE or 1X1=1

Since this shows both the the Fertilized Egg as having a VALUE of 1 as well as the FOOD having a VALUE of 1 it means the two are of EQUAL VALUE for a CHILD to EXIST.
Logic Dictates Equal Value has EQUAL POTENTIAL. THUS Value is 1 or V=1 and Potential=Value thus Potential=1 or P=1 thus VALUE X POTENTIAL OR 1X1=1 We Multiply because Value and Potential are exponentially increasing per DEVELOPMENT.
Thus V X P X D = 1D When Sentience occurs we ADD THUS 1D + S = 1D+S THUS 1D+S>1D

1D = A POTENTIAL CHILD DEVELOPING 1D+S = A CHILD. 1D = A DEVELOPING POTENTIAL CHILD.
Split Infinity

Originally posted by SplitInfinity

Originally posted by Bone75
Okay now that we've done a pretty good job of establishing that A life begins at conception, and that this is scientific fact that doesn't require belief. Shall we move on? Or are we still stuck on this?

Life is present BEFORE CONCEPTION. This is the CRUX of the issue.

No Split, this is not the crux of the issue. The crux of the issue is when this "life in general" (as you put it) becomes A life. How many times do I have to hit the AAA button before the concept sinks in?

Please answer these questions for me and everyone else and then I promise we'll move on to sentience or whatever else you want to....

Do you agree that upon the moment of conception a NEW human life form, with its own DNA is created?
Yes or No

Do you agree that the DNA contained in my blood today is a carbon-copy of the DNA created at the moment of my conception?
Yes or No

Your participation is much appreciated and the questions are for everyone else as well.

reply to post by Quadrivium


Are we witnessing an exorcism?

reply to post by Quadrivium

People who are in a COMA that have Higher Brain Function ARE SENTIENT. A person who does not have Higher Brain Function and is in a Vegetative State or worse...does not have Higher Brain Function nor has a capacity to be able to Breath or have their internal organs work without mechanical help...would MOST DEFINITELY be a person I would allow to die by pulling the plug.
Split Infinity

reply to post by Bone75

At the moment of Conception...we have a Human Egg Cell being penetrated thus fertilized by at least one sperm cell. At this point these highly specialized Cells begin to form a POTENTIAL HUMAN BEING. But they are not SENTIENT. Their VALUE is NOT EQUAL to the Value of a SENTIENT HUMAN BEING or even at the level of value of a FETUS that has obtained SENTIENCE.

A Fertilized Egg Cell is a POTENTIAL. VALUE is determined as to this condition. That value is not any greater than the Raw Material that was needed to Create these now Joined Cells in the Human Body.
Split Infinity