Abortion - Free Will and Responsibility of Women, NOT Mankind

reply to post by Quadrivium

I do not disagree that a potential Human Life is being destroyed. I am simply saying that whatever a person may have strong Beliefs...it is a question of the Lesser of two Bad Situations. What would you prefer given these two and ONLY THESE TWO POSSIBILITIES?

The Woman has an Egg Cell Fertilized. Now she will not have nor want the baby nor does she wish to be Pregnant for any reason.

Would you rather have her wait for the Fertilized Egg to implant itself in the Uterine Wall and have it develop to whatever extent only to be aborted?

Or would you...KNOWING that she will not carry the pregnancy to full term...prefer she used the Morning After Pill or Plan B...which will not allow the Fertilized Egg to implant itself into the Uterine wall thus NO PREGNANCY?

Which to you is the BETTER COURSE OF ACTION? Split Infinity

reply to post by Bone75

Correct me? There is NOTHING I said that was not true. The only difference is a persons BELIEFS and thus BY LOGIC...cannot have a RIGHT OR WRONG ANSWER. Split Infinity

reply to post by Quadrivium


Isn't it ironic, our position doesn't require belief or death...

theirs' requires both...

yet our thinking is flawed?

I like your avatar (and your brain btw) Some people see the skull as morbid and a symbol for death. I see it as a symbol of what lies beneath the surface... the truth.

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by Bone75

 

Correct me? There is NOTHING I said that was not true. The only difference is a persons BELIEFS and thus BY LOGIC...cannot have a RIGHT OR WRONG ANSWER. Split Infinity

Originally posted by Quadrivium
Here is were I think our disagreement comes into play.
If you take a DNA sample from a sperm, It will be the DNA of the male donor.
If you take a DNA sample from an egg, it will be the DNA of the female donor.
Combine the two and it is neither. At the moment they meet and the cells start dividing new DNA is created. It no longer is the mothers or the fathers, related yes, but new. It is now the DNA of a new human life.

Again, this does not require belief. What Quad and I posted is correct... what you posted is incorrect. Plain and simple. I'd advise you to read DNA For Dummies before arguing this point any further.

reply to post by Bone75

You are twisting my words as I have not stated that a persons Belief that having an abortion is Morally Wrong as it Kills a Potential Human Life is Fundamentally Flawed. It is not flawed. It is a belief therefore it can be neither right or wrong.

I was stating that a person basing their estimation of what is or is not moral upon whether something is ALIVE is Fundamentally Wrong as many things we kill are alive such as a Carrot or Cabbage. Split Infinity

reply to post by Bone75

Please explain what it is SPECIFICALLY that I posted that you consider incorrect.
Split Infinity

Okay Split, to clear things up, I posted this:

You're letting terminology get in the way of common sense. Yes, sperm is human life. Yes, the ovum is human life, but a fertilized egg is A human life.

DNA tests on all 3 can prove it if you like.

You responded with this:

Your conclusion is fundamentally Flawed. I can do a DNA test on a STRAND OF HUMAN HAIR with a FOLLICLE....and it will give me the same data that a DNA test will give me on a Cell taken from a Clump of Cells that are dividing and have implanted themselves in the Uterine Wall. The HAIR STRAND is NOT ALIVE but the Dead Hair cells will give me Living Cells still even those these Cells also have Human DNA these Cells will not have the ability to naturally grow into a Child. Point is that just because something can be tested to have Human DNA does not mean it is a Human Being In fact a Human Being is a collection of many Life Forms such as the Bacteria that lives inside a Humans Digestive Track as without this Bacteria existing in our Bodies Large and Small Intestines and through out the Digestive Track...a person would not be able to live. A CARROT is alive...a CABBAGE is alive...that does not mean it is SENTIENT. The same can be said for a clump of cells attached to the uterine wall. Split Infinity

Then Quad responded with this:

Originally posted by Quadrivium
Here is were I think our disagreement comes into play.
If you take a DNA sample from a sperm, It will be the DNA of the male donor.
If you take a DNA sample from an egg, it will be the DNA of the female donor.
Combine the two and it is neither. At the moment they meet and the cells start dividing new DNA is created. It no longer is the mothers or the fathers, related yes, but new. It is now the DNA of a new human life.

That was the argument. Admit that you were wrong before deflecting, then when can take this debate in whichever direction you'd prefer...

tomorrow, because I didn't vote for Obama, so I have to go to work in the morning.

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by Bone75

 

You are twisting my words as I have not stated that a persons Belief that having an abortion is Morally Wrong as it Kills a Potential Human Life is Fundamentally Flawed. It is not flawed. It is a belief therefore it can be neither right or wrong.

I was stating that a person basing their estimation of what is or is not moral upon whether something is ALIVE is Fundamentally Wrong as many things we kill are alive such as a Carrot or Cabbage. Split Infinity

Split, It has nothing to do with belief or carrots or cabbages, really.
Wouldn't you agree that we ALL have the basic rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? This new human life, being human also has these rights.
If a woman has an abortion she is simply acting as judge, jury and executioner of an innocent victim.

Now what about the woman's rights?
She knew very well what might happen before she laid down, unless of course it was rape. As I have said, we all learn our biological roles pretty early in life. It is not as if she can have sex and then claim ignorance of how her body works if she ends up pregnant.
The life inside of her should not have to pay the ultimate price for her careless actions, the price is too high.
"Her careless actions", yes I said it.
Most men will screw anything with a vagina, again biology at play. Is it right? No, it is science. Is it fair? No, but it is a fact of life. And I do not like it anymore than most. That being said, the woman has to give consent (unless it is rape). With that consent comes the knowledge that a life may be formed during that momentary act of enjoyment.
It all boils down to how we are made.
This is the simple statement that should put it all into perspective.......
Women have all of the control, total control, over their bodies. Until they get pregnant. Then it is no longer just her body, no longer just her rights but the life sharing it as well.
They are aware of this going in. Yes, men are too but the ultimate choice is hers.
Example(probably not the best in the world but you should get the picture)
A good looking single man walks in a bar, what are his chances of finding a woman to go home with? 50% at best?
A good looking single woman walks into a bar, what do you think her chances are of finding a man to go home with her? Get the picture?
Sucks to be a woman huh?
Quad

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by MonkeyFishFrog

 

There's no sense debating the non sensible. Anyone who believes that a female should taught her role in society based on biology, and should die for objecting to her biological fate, isn't worth another finger flick on my keyboard.
.

Someone in one of these abortion threads mentioned: Medieval.

Pretty much sums it up.

BTW - - my role in society is anything I make it.

reply to post by Bone75

There is absolutely no conflict between the two statements. We both stated facts. The only possible conflict is you stating that there is a conflict.

My statement had to due with a person using the criteria of something being ALIVE as to assign Moral Value. Both of you are saying that just because a Sperm and Egg independently or a Fertilized Egg are ALIVE that just because ANYTHING is ALIVE means that to kill it is Morally Objectionable.

I stated that concept was Flawed in that just because something is ALIVE does not mean Life unto itself is a criteria that people use to determine if it is Morally Objectionable to kill that Life as we kill life all the time and have no objections in doing it.

In fact people in general do not have issue with a Couple going to a Fertility Clinic for a Woman who cannot conceive or hold Pregnancy Naturally has implanted several Fertilized Eggs to have a Child. During this process...THOUSANDS of Fertilized Eggs are discarded and die...yet NO ONE seems to have issue with this in the main stream. Thus this life being destroyed is not found to be an issue yet to take the Morning After Pill seems to be an issue for the Overly Religious. Split Infinity...p.s....what is your stance on Plan B or the Morning After Pill?

reply to post by Quadrivium

I honestly do not think it is any of our Business. As I said...I personally find it distasteful but it is not my body nor my decision. To suggest that a Law should be passed that would FORCE a Woman to carry an unwanted Pregnancy...is Barbaric and a violation of that Woman's Rights.

Also to force this upon a Woman will result in Back Alley Abortions and this was prevalent back Decades Ago. If a Woman does not want to be pregnant she will find a way not to be. Thus the suppression of proper Contraception and ESPECIALLY the suppression of New Medicines which can easily stop a Fertilized Egg from ever implanting itself is not only CREATING MORE ABORTIONS but a STUPIDITY OF CONCEPT.

Split Infinity

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by Quadrivium

 

I honestly do not think it is any of our Business. As I said...I personally find it distasteful but it is not my body nor my decision. To suggest that a Law should be passed that would FORCE a Woman to carry an unwanted Pregnancy...is Barbaric and a violation of that Woman's Rights.

Also to force this upon a Woman will result in Back Alley Abortions and this was prevalent back Decades Ago. If a Woman does not want to be pregnant she will find a way not to be. Thus the suppression of proper Contraception and ESPECIALLY the suppression of New Medicines which can easily stop a Fertilized Egg from ever implanting itself is not only CREATING MORE ABORTIONS but a STUPIDITY OF CONCEPT.

Split Infinity

Don't bother. They have already stated that they are okay with women dying in back alley abortions and illegal clinics.

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by Quadrivium

 

I honestly do not think it is any of our Business. As I said...I personally find it distasteful but it is not my body nor my decision. To suggest that a Law should be passed that would FORCE a Woman to carry an unwanted Pregnancy...is Barbaric and a violation of that Woman's Rights.

We were having a nice discussion split, or so I thought. Please do not put words in my mouth or act as if you know my thoughts. I assure you, you do not.
I said nothing about a Law, what I am advocating is RESPONSIBILITY!

Also to force this upon a Woman will result in Back Alley Abortions and this was prevalent back Decades Ago. If a Woman does not want to be pregnant she will find a way not to be. Thus the suppression of proper Contraception and ESPECIALLY the suppression of New Medicines which can easily stop a Fertilized Egg from ever implanting itself is not only CREATING MORE ABORTIONS but a STUPIDITY OF CONCEPT.

Split Infinity

Again I said nothing about suppression of contraception, We were talking about abortions, which happen after the need for contraception.
Quad

Originally posted by MonkeyFishFrog

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by Quadrivium

 

I honestly do not think it is any of our Business. As I said...I personally find it distasteful but it is not my body nor my decision. To suggest that a Law should be passed that would FORCE a Woman to carry an unwanted Pregnancy...is Barbaric and a violation of that Woman's Rights.

Also to force this upon a Woman will result in Back Alley Abortions and this was prevalent back Decades Ago. If a Woman does not want to be pregnant she will find a way not to be. Thus the suppression of proper Contraception and ESPECIALLY the suppression of New Medicines which can easily stop a Fertilized Egg from ever implanting itself is not only CREATING MORE ABORTIONS but a STUPIDITY OF CONCEPT.

Split Infinity

Don't bother. They have already stated that they are okay with women dying in back alley abortions and illegal clinics.

Nice to have you back Mr. Monkeyfishfrog,
So tell me, why would a woman go to a back ally or illegal abortion clinic?

reply to post by MonkeyFishFrog

I don't understand why it would be in some peoples minds OK for a Woman to die due to issues arising from a Pregnancy whatever they may be...but not OK for a simple taking of a Morning After Pill to prevent a Pregnancy thus saving an actual LIVING PERSON only to possibly save a POTENTIAL CHILD.

The Living Woman is a KNOW QUANTITY. A Fertilized Egg that has not even Implanted itself in the Uterine wall nor has it even begun to divide...IS NOT.

Why is LIFE so precious as a couple of cells yet in their minds...a Living Breathing Person having NO VALUE to that persons life as far as some are concerned.

They even go so far as to think it to be PERFECTLY MORAL TO KILL A PLANNED PARENTHOOD DOCTOR. This is very SICK THINKING. They are about as far away from any GOD as the Earth is distant to the Edge of the KNOWN UNIVERSE. It makes me sad to think that there are people that have such beliefs. They are a scourge to Mankind. Just as we clean the Mildew off of a Shower Curtain...so should we remove this form of Twisted Thought from our World. Split Infinity

reply to post by Quadrivium

My statement was not directed at you as if it was I would have said so. This statement was directed at people who think this way. I in NO WAY was speaking of you. Split Infinity

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by Quadrivium

 

My statement was not directed at you as if it was I would have said so. This statement was directed at people who think this way. I in NO WAY was speaking of you. Split Infinity

No offense taken, I have stated things in this thread that I am not proud of. Emotions run high in these threads.

Originally posted by Quadrivium

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by Quadrivium

 

My statement was not directed at you as if it was I would have said so. This statement was directed at people who think this way. I in NO WAY was speaking of you. Split Infinity

No offense taken, I have stated things in this thread that I am not proud of. Emotions run high in these threads.

No big deal. Live and let Die...I always say! LOL!
Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity

Perhaps you missed this?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by Quadrivium

No...I didn't miss it. Nor was I condemning you. I was talking in general about those who seem confused as they advocate saving a Not Yet Born Child's Life...yet they have no issue speaking about letting a Woman Die to allow the Birth of that Child...or advocate KILLING a Clinic Doctor.

These statements had nothing to do with you. Split Infinity