Abortion - Free Will and Responsibility of Women, NOT Mankind

Originally posted by Quadrivium

Originally posted by MonkeyFishFrog

Originally posted by Bone75

Originally posted by windword


Even if you say that a fertilized egg or a fetus has the right to life, that right doesn't trump the right of the mother not to care for it. Slavery is illegal and t is also illegal to force someone to donate organs or blood, so why would it even be considered that we should force a woman to rent out her body for 9 months?

You enter into that contract the moment you LET sperm enter your love canal.

You may want your kids to come up in a world where sex has no consequences, but I sure don't.

I think we both want our children to grow up in a world where sex has consequences for both parties and not solely on the shoulders of women which we are seeing in this thread and real life.

As I said before, most of us learn sex ed at an early age. So from an early age the woman knows what her role is. It's not like she should be surprised if she gets pregnant. It is called Biology. Time to grow up and take responsibility for your actions instead of killing someone for a bad decision.

What are the role of men then?

You should also know with all your sex ed classes that there is no 100% effective way to prevent pregnancy even with contraceptives. The only 100% way is abstinence. MEN are the only way to get a WOMAN pregnant so why doesn't he learn his role?

Double standard, double standard.

reply to post by MonkeyFishFrog


There's no sense debating the non sensible. Anyone who believes that a female should taught her role in society based on biology, and should die for objecting to her biological fate, isn't worth another finger flick on my keyboard.

Peace out/ until a more worthy discussion comes along. Something serious. I'm not getting into Neanderthal logic.

Originally posted by Bone75

Originally posted by MonkeyFishFrog
reply to post by Bone75

 

So then you must've applauded the hospital for this.

I don't even have to look at the link to know what you're referring to. And no, I don't applaud the hospital. That was a tragedy.

Should we also perform a genetic comparison to the fetus and then go kill the father too? He is just as responsible.

That's just silly, but genetic comparisons between fetuses and fathers is something I would whole-heartedly support.

But why aren't we doing that now?

Because that would give the father RIGHTS now wouldn't it?

edit on 15-11-2012 by Bone75 because: somehow erased the first sentence. no disrespect intended.

edit on 15-11-2012 by Bone75 because: oops again. I think its fixed

It was a preventable tragedy but because they have all-or-nothing abortion laws the woman dies. Forced to carry a fetus in her that was dying because it still had a heart beat and nothing could be done for it. You don't think the same thing will occur here or other places if we adopt this kind of approach?

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by MonkeyFishFrog

 

There's no sense debating the non sensible. Anyone who believes that a female should taught her role in society based on biology, and should die for objecting to her biological fate, isn't worth another finger flick on my keyboard.

Peace out/ until a more worthy discussion comes along. Something serious. I'm not getting into Neanderthal logic.

I agree. The last page with posts saying it is okay for women to die for an abortion and that they need to learn their places/roles is beyond reproach. I would have to explain human decency and equality to even start unpacking those posts.

reply to post by MonkeyFishFrog

Absolutely it's a double standard. Is it right? NO! Is it fair? NO!
But that my friend is life.
Men can not give birth, sorry but it is a fact of life.
Men can not get a woman pregnant unless she opens her legs. Unless it's rape.
If sex is so important to you, if you think it is more important than a human life, get some sex toys and end the debate.
Grow up people! Life is not always fair, but you should not kill because you made a bad choice.

Originally posted by MonkeyFishFrog

Originally posted by Bone75

Originally posted by MonkeyFishFrog
reply to post by Bone75

 

So then you must've applauded the hospital for this.

I don't even have to look at the link to know what you're referring to. And no, I don't applaud the hospital. That was a tragedy.

Should we also perform a genetic comparison to the fetus and then go kill the father too? He is just as responsible.

That's just silly, but genetic comparisons between fetuses and fathers is something I would whole-heartedly support.

But why aren't we doing that now?

Because that would give the father RIGHTS now wouldn't it?

edit on 15-11-2012 by Bone75 because: somehow erased the first sentence. no disrespect intended.

edit on 15-11-2012 by Bone75 because: oops again. I think its fixed

It was a preventable tragedy but because they have all-or-nothing abortion laws the woman dies. Forced to carry a fetus in her that was dying because it still had a heart beat and nothing could be done for it. You don't think the same thing will occur here or other places if we adopt this kind of approach?

No I don't. We provide heroin addicts with clean needles here, but heroin is illegal. Our laws don't condone heroin use, but we ARE concerned about the safety of the user because people are gonna do it regardless of its legal standing. Abortion should be treated the same way.

Originally posted by MonkeyFishFrog

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by MonkeyFishFrog

 

There's no sense debating the non sensible. Anyone who believes that a female should taught her role in society based on biology, and should die for objecting to her biological fate, isn't worth another finger flick on my keyboard.

Peace out/ until a more worthy discussion comes along. Something serious. I'm not getting into Neanderthal logic.

I agree. The last page with posts saying it is okay for women to die for an abortion and that they need to learn their places/roles is beyond reproach. I would have to explain human decency and equality to even start unpacking those posts.

That offends you... calling my kids parasites offends me. We'll get over it I promise.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by MonkeyFishFrog

 

There's no sense debating the non sensible. Anyone who believes that a female should taught her role in society based on biology, and should die for objecting to her biological fate, isn't worth another finger flick on my keyboard.

Peace out/ until a more worthy discussion comes along. Something serious. I'm not getting into Neanderthal logic.

Neanderthal logic?????
You ever heard of partial birth abortions?
Yea, someone getting upset over legalized murder is real neanderthal like, I'm sure.

Originally posted by MonkeyFishFrog
reply to post by Bone75

 

And yet you are okay with a woman dying because it isn't equal today and it wasn't equal in the decades before when it was occurring (back alley abortions)

Let me be clear. I don't want anyone to die. Not the baby, the mother, or the father. Stop making me out to be a cold-blooded jerk. I'm blunt and to-the-point, but I'm no jerk.

Well maybe a little

Originally posted by MonkeyFishFrog

What are the role of men then?

You should also know with all your sex ed classes that there is no 100% effective way to prevent pregnancy even with contraceptives. The only 100% way is abstinence. MEN are the only way to get a WOMAN pregnant so why doesn't he learn his role?

Double standard, double standard.

There you go putting me in the same category as a rapist again.

In case you haven't noticed... the world is changing.

More and more men ARE stepping up to the plate (thanks in part to DNA testing).

Originally posted by Quadrivium

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by MonkeyFishFrog

 

There's no sense debating the non sensible. Anyone who believes that a female should taught her role in society based on biology, and should die for objecting to her biological fate, isn't worth another finger flick on my keyboard.

Peace out/ until a more worthy discussion comes along. Something serious. I'm not getting into Neanderthal logic.

Neanderthal logic?????

You ever heard of partial birth abortions?
Yea, someone getting upset over legalized murder is real neanderthal like, I'm sure.

The star function above your post must not be working...

I could only give you one

Originally posted by Bone75

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Quadrivium

 

A fertilized egg may be a human life form, but it's hardly a human being or a person. Nor is it the beginning of life, as both the sperm and the ovum are alive and are human.

You're letting terminology get in the way of common sense. Yes, sperm is human life. Yes, the ovum is human life, but a fertilized egg is A human life.

DNA tests on all 3 can prove it if you like.

edit on 15-11-2012 by Bone75 because: (no reason given)

Your conclusion is fundamentally Flawed. I can do a DNA test on a STRAND OF HUMAN HAIR with a FOLLICLE....and it will give me the same data that a DNA test will give me on a Cell taken from a Clump of Cells that are dividing and have implanted themselves in the Uterine Wall. The HAIR STRAND is NOT ALIVE but the Dead Hair cells will give me Living Cells still even those these Cells also have Human DNA these Cells will not have the ability to naturally grow into a Child. Point is that just because something can be tested to have Human DNA does not mean it is a Human Being In fact a Human Being is a collection of many Life Forms such as the Bacteria that lives inside a Humans Digestive Track as without this Bacteria existing in our Bodies Large and Small Intestines and through out the Digestive Track...a person would not be able to live. A CARROT is alive...a CABBAGE is alive...that does not mean it is SENTIENT. The same can be said for a clump of cells attached to the uterine wall. Split Infinity

reply to post by Quadrivium

That's OK! LOL! I respect other peoples beliefs. What I specifically respect is the way that you posted your disagreement. What I do not respect is when someones beliefs take over their ability to be polite. Thanks!
Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity


Oh, I am not always polite, I have a tendency to be rude if provoked. It is a short coming of mine
I do appreciate a polite debate, however if someone is rude.....well it really brings out the worse in me.
Thanks split,
Quad

Originally posted by SplitInfinity

Originally posted by Bone75

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Quadrivium

 

A fertilized egg may be a human life form, but it's hardly a human being or a person. Nor is it the beginning of life, as both the sperm and the ovum are alive and are human.

You're letting terminology get in the way of common sense. Yes, sperm is human life. Yes, the ovum is human life, but a fertilized egg is A human life.

DNA tests on all 3 can prove it if you like.

edit on 15-11-2012 by Bone75 because: (no reason given)

Your conclusion is fundamentally Flawed. I can do a DNA test on a STRAND OF HUMAN HAIR with a FOLLICLE....and it will give me the same data that a DNA test will give me on a Cell taken from a Clump of Cells that are dividing and have implanted themselves in the Uterine Wall. The HAIR STRAND is NOT ALIVE but the Dead Hair cells will give me Living Cells still even those these Cells also have Human DNA these Cells will not have the ability to naturally grow into a Child. Point is that just because something can be tested to have Human DNA does not mean it is a Human Being

Here is were I think our disagreement comes into play.
If you take a DNA sample from a sperm, It will be the DNA of the male donor.
If you take a DNA sample from an egg, it will be the DNA of the female donor.
Combine the two and it is neither. At the moment they meet and the cells start dividing new DNA is created. It no longer is the mothers or the fathers, related yes, but new. It is now the DNA of a new human life.

In fact a Human Being is a collection of many Life Forms such as the Bacteria that lives inside a Humans Digestive Track as without this Bacteria existing in our Bodies Large and Small Intestines and through out the Digestive Track...a person would not be able to live. A CARROT is alive...a CABBAGE is alive...that does not mean it is SENTIENT. The same can be said for a clump of cells attached to the uterine wall. Split Infinity

Yes carrots and cabbages are alive but they are not human.
I do not believe "sentient" has anything to do with it, split. The fact, the only fact that truly matters, is that at the moment of conception a human life begins. It begins and if it is ended then that life no longer exists. A human life no longer exists.
Quad

reply to post by Bone75


Arrg.... I hate when that happens

reply to post by Quadrivium

I understand where you are coming from and I myself find abortion distasteful...still...if we have a choice between a possibility of an abortion because a Woman is Raped or has an unwanted Pregnancy as apposed to a Woman who could easily take a pill the next morning to prevent a possible pregnancy as the Morning After Pill will not allow a Fertilized Egg to implant itself in the Uterine wall...I would say that the Morning After Pill is a much better choice than a Woman having to have to go through the trauma of aborting a developing fetus.

Still...as I have said...it is no ones business except the WOMAN'S. Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity


Only 1% of abortions are due to rape, split.
I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this one.
I am thinking of trying a debate in the debate forum. Perhaps this would be a good topic. I have never had a formal debate and would probably get slaughtered though
Quad

Originally posted by SplitInfinity

Originally posted by Bone75

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Quadrivium

 

A fertilized egg may be a human life form, but it's hardly a human being or a person. Nor is it the beginning of life, as both the sperm and the ovum are alive and are human.

You're letting terminology get in the way of common sense. Yes, sperm is human life. Yes, the ovum is human life, but a fertilized egg is A human life.

DNA tests on all 3 can prove it if you like.

edit on 15-11-2012 by Bone75 because: (no reason given)

Your conclusion is fundamentally Flawed. I can do a DNA test on a STRAND OF HUMAN HAIR with a FOLLICLE....and it will give me the same data that a DNA test will give me on a Cell taken from a Clump of Cells that are dividing and have implanted themselves in the Uterine Wall. The HAIR STRAND is NOT ALIVE but the Dead Hair cells will give me Living Cells still even those these Cells also have Human DNA these Cells will not have the ability to naturally grow into a Child. Point is that just because something can be tested to have Human DNA does not mean it is a Human Being In fact a Human Being is a collection of many Life Forms such as the Bacteria that lives inside a Humans Digestive Track as without this Bacteria existing in our Bodies Large and Small Intestines and through out the Digestive Track...a person would not be able to live. A CARROT is alive...a CABBAGE is alive...that does not mean it is SENTIENT. The same can be said for a clump of cells attached to the uterine wall. Split Infinity

Well that one certainly flew waaaaay over your head, but Quad couldn't have corrected you any better. How is it that we're all exposed to the same information, yet we come to such vastly different understandings?

reply to post by Bone75

Bone, as a fellow "bone head"(avatars) I would like to say that I do not know how so many can not see what is clearly in front of them.
They try and add religion, being sentient and the soul into something where they do not belong.. I have said this since my first post or two...............
When a woman decides to have an abortion, she is removing a human life. A HUMAN LIFE.
Most of the time this is done because they were irresponsible. Yes we will hear about rape, but that only accounts for less that 1% of abortions.
Then we will hear about a woman's rights. No one in my opinion has the right to take a human life. Especially if they made a stupid decision. That decision was not the fault of the human life inside the woman but it will be the one to pay the price for it. I see it as being childish and irresponsible to say the least.
Quad