A compiled list of what We are learning from Sandy

1) no excuse for not having 3-5 days supplies on hand, even if it's just canned soup and raisins.
2) human beings were never meant to live in large cities. they are an unnatural environment, and certainly unsustainable, even in non-emergency times. I spent some time in Boston and that is all cut with rivers and bays. a storm like this there would be catastrophic.
3) lots of people on the left promote mass-transit and frown on personal vehicles, but this event shows what a mess ensues when the mt goes down. people wi cars (presuming they were smart enough to fill their tank before the storm) could head for the country instead of being trapped and dependant on gummint.
my nightmare scenario; stuck in a place with no evacuation or transit, dependant on someone else for supplies. no thanks.
4) I always thought Katrina was a New Orleans problem, but we're seeing most of the same problems
now in NYC.
5) unbelievable they would even think about using generators and water for the Marathon when people a mile or two away are so helpless. they finally made the right call but not initially.
6) Obama flies in for a photo op then flies to Vegas. where's all the angry media that cursed Bush's response to Katrina?
7) anyone heard the stories of electrical workers in bucket trucks being turned away from NY/NJ cuz they weren't union???

reply to post by LittleBlackEagle

CB radio, short wave radio would be good choices, local people getting together and discussing, that's what you will need.

Not CB. No one is listening and if they are listening they are likely going to come and rob you. No, you want to talk to licensed radio operators, like yourself. Licensed, trained and practiced amateur radio operators who are your neighbors and friends.

For local communications we use mostly 2 meters which is VHF. There are also 440 Mhz frequencies we can use for local communications.

On Monday I was listening to hurricane weather reports sitting at lunch in the car on 14.325 Mhz (20 meters) which was planned in advance as a special frequency for that purpose, not by Gov, by the radio operators. I was in southern Indiana getting reports from Maine and Virginia. I routinely talk to stations all over the country and all over the world with my little 100 watt radio and a hamstick on the car.

So learn the material and go get your license. If you have your license you can also get a special license plate for your car that identifies you as an amateur radio operator so the cops will allow you through the road blocks. Visit ARRL to find out how and join your local radio club. ARRL Many hospitals have an amateur radio station and routinely practice emergency communications and hold "nets".

The thing I have noticed missing from the lists is a corrosion resistant shotgun and rifle with plenty of ammunition. I also keep my emergency supplies upstairs. If I plan ahead, and have my supplies, it becomes important to be able to defend against the hordes of zombies out roaming around. Glad I am away from the city now.

As I read these posts I am wondering if everyone is getting the same news reports. These peoples homes were covered by 10 feet of water. They have nothing but what they could carry. It is much worse than what is implied in the posts I am reading here... Before and after photos here

reply to post by works4dhs


i agree on your points made and from what the locals are saying, they not only agree also, they are very pissed off at the job their local govt. is doing. here are some excerpts from them.

Devastated Rockaways residents lash out at Bloomberg during unannounced visit

Storm-ravaged and weary Rockaways residents cornered Mayor Bloomberg yesterday to angrily demand more aid for their devastated neighborhood.

“When are we gonna get some help?” blasted one desperate woman, who had to be held back by the mayor’s security detail as Bloomberg stood by with a deer-in-the-headlights look.

“When are we gonna get some f--king help?” she demanded.

“There’s old ladies in my building that don’t got nothing,” lashed out a man on video caught by a NY1 reporting crew.

Bloomberg’s trip to the Rockaways wasn’t announced and wouldn’t have been caught on cameras if the news crew hadn’t happened to run across him. Back in City Hall, he expressed sympathy with the residents’ plight.

"Set up large tents. Respite tents to get warm in...use the generators from the marathon. We stayed in tents on the DMZ of N/S Korea while I was in the Marines...served food out of tents etc. Army Corps could have those tents set up in 3-4 hours..."

"i agree about the tents but as you and i both know (having served in germany) without fuel those tents are freezing..there just isnt any fuel left....i drove around for a long time last night and all you see is gas stations closed up. When a station gets a shipment its devoured in a few hours....its beyond bad..its dire "

""overanxious"? What a stupid word to use, when temperatures are dropping. you don't have food or heat! And this clown, wanted to run the marathon!"

"NYC consists of 5 boroughs, not just the Upper East/West Side and Wall Street.

So we have The Fuhrer Obama jet in for a propaganda photo op and hug Christie. Woop-de-dooh! All the congratulating fellow bureaucrats that are doing a "great job", as the teleprompter told Obama to say. Nothing more than words. But that's still more than Bloomberg is doing for Staten Island and Queens.

Here we have our Dear Emperor Bloomberg... confronting a crisis a tad bigger than a soda that exceeds 16 ounces... and we get CHOKING. The man is CHOKING when LEADERSHIP is needed. Always was a blowhard, avuncular rich know-it-all phony nanny state wuss. Rudi cleaned up the Dinkins mess (imagine if he took the 'Obama cop out?) Dealt with 9/11.

Term limit-busting hypocrite Mikie Bllomberg can't lead flatulence on it's way out of his own anus. Sad excuse for a man, sad excuse for a mayor of a city that consist of 5 boroughs of people to serve.

Not just the rich, Mikie."

www.nypost.com...

i'm really glad they found enough sense to cancel that marathon and i'm unsure why they would have evn considered it, blows my mind really.


i believe it's now safe to say you cannot protect people in a large city from potentially deadly storms.

i think in the future they would be wise just to force evacuate a much larger area, anyone who stays by choice, has no room to complain then. they will still need help but at least it was their choice to disobey a forced evacuation and it's on them to deal with life in a storm zone.

Originally posted by NotThat
reply to post by LittleBlackEagle

 

We have learned---
-people won't leave even when told to
-people won't stock up on enough food or water or fuel even when told to
-people will loot/steal if they think they can get away with it
-people will blame the government
-people will threaten/beat up/kill others to get what they want first
-people waiting in lines will become violent
-most people are stupid/ selfish, and impatient

At the risk of sounding harsh, I have to agree with a lot of this. It doesn't change the fact that a lot of people are suffering, and that we feel bad for them. But...

Plenty of those on the coast, in direct threat, stayed behind even when they were warned repeatedly to leave. This was their choice. I understand that there may have been instances where it might have been difficult to leave, but in the vast majority of these cases it seems that they didn't do their homework, or they misjudged and made an incorrect decision. What would have happened if the military had gone in there and forced people out of their homes? There's only so far a government or state can go to enforce an evacuation, if people chose to ignore it then what the hell is anyone else supposed to do?

I also agree that plenty in the city didn't prepare either. They are running out of food and water, fuel and so on after less than a week. I could understand this to a greater degree if it were a sudden disaster, such as an EQ or large fire, but there was a considerable warning as Sandy approached, they had days to prepare and stock up on all the essentials they need. They chose not to.
I saw one woman on a live broadcast as the storm was rolling in, stopped on the street and asked why she wasn't at home and bracing for the storm, she said her and her husband were out getting supplies. What were those supplies? A take-out and a box of candles! I don't know how they expected a take-out dinner to last them, but I'm guessing their "supplies" ran out quickly.

I don't agree with your proposition that people will loot and steal just if they think they can get away with it. This is a minority, and it's a young minority too. The majority of people will only behave like that if they are pushed to it through desperation. For most people it takes a lot to push them to the limit. There is a level of "polite society" that we all instinctively live by, we have a sense of community and people do band together for survival. This is where gang activity stems from - a natural inclination to be a part of a collective to increase our chances of survival in dangerous circumstances.

I also agree that many are impatient. We live in a world where we can get everything within minutes, hours or days. We've become used to having all our necessities delivered to us and we don't actually have to do much to secure our own survival. In times when the lack of necessities meets with a need for survival that patience runs out even faster. While living in comfort without a stable power supply under normal circumstances might be inconvenient and cause some ranting about it, in this kind of instance it increases to the point of taking physical action to secure it.

There are a few things that I think people should take from this as a lesson.

First, you cannot rely on your government to come and save you.

Second, people should be aware of their surroundings and actually consider the threats to them. It should be logical that if you live on the coast you face risks from flooding and incoming storms, so why did all these people not realize this obvious fact? It only takes a little common sense to realize that those areas only slightly above sea level are at risk from a storm surge just as much as those at lower levels, the only difference is standing water after the event.

Third, everything is delivered to you. Your water and power are out of your control. It's logical that in a large enough disaster you need to prepare for that eventuality. Water is the biggest problem, because so many natural sources are now polluted and not publicly safe, it all has to be treated and delivered through clean lines. Even in a disaster you are restricted in what you can do. Have enough to last a few days, rotate it as you would food. A couple of crates of bottled water can be stored in a kitchen cupboard and rotated just like everything else, and that could last one person a month or more if rationed.

Knowledge of your threats, food, water, security, and a plan to leave safely if you have to are all people really need to cover almost every disaster or emergency. But there will still be millions of people who never plan, never think it will happen and will rely on all-powerful government to come and rescue them when they need it.

reply to post by kawika


good ideas on ham radio, although i think because of the licensing and somewhat complex knowledge of using such a system, many people will not invest the time or funds to do that.

i often think CB first, is because no license is required, you by a cheap radio with 40 stations and hit a button to speak, keeps it real simple, no frequencies to worry about or the rest of the ham technicalities and don't get me wrong ham is so much more and carries across the globe if need be, but it's very technical to the average laymen and many are just not interested.

just wish the useless fcc would allow CB's to push a more useful wattage, maybe 10 to 20 watts would suffice for a greater coverage area. 5 watts and maybe 2-3 miles max is very limited, but i think on a local level it would be useful.

guns and ammo are a must, but i think bloomberg does everything he can to break constitutional law in NYC, when it comes to guns.

i agree on the inconsistencies of reports. i believe it depends on location, Rockaway beach and Coney Island are a mess and i'm certain they are not getting to them very quickly from the reports i have seen.

reply to post by detachedindividual


i think it's safe to say at this point, a great many more people will be self educated on the necessities of storm/catastrophe preparations, in NYC,NJ,CT and anywhere else affected by the storm.

i think it really only takes going through the BS of being without for a week or more, for people to never want to go through that again, that's smart people anyway.

An additional thoughts on this. Millions of dollars have been spent on food, water, generators, etc. It is not like the effort is not being made. Folks all over the place are working around the clock to help people.

However we need to consider a few things:

1. We have MANY government agencies at multiple levels in turbo mode to make something positive happen. Coordination in these circumstances is shaky on a good day. Thrown in a disaster and it gets sporty.

2. Dollars and people on the ground do not automatically add up to effective disaster relief logistics. I do not want to bash but this is where that overarching emergency response agency is supposed to shine. My hope is they are definitely on a learning curve and taking notes.

3. Many have said it and I will reiterate, taking care of yourself is your responsibility. I have been skimming the Constitution and looking for that guaranteed free, warm meal amendment. I know it is next to the warm bed and happy puppies clause but so far it has eluded me.

4. People get crazy quickly!!! I guess the latest phrase is 'normalcy bias'.

www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.haaretz.com...

reply to post by LittleBlackEagle


12 watts is legal on sideband CB radio. Most radios do not have this feature. Cobra makes one, but the other station needs to have sideband also to receive it clearly. Cobra 148 w SSB

CB radio is on the higher edge of what we call HF (high frequency) or 3-30 Mhz. CB channels are 26-27 Mhz. So that band does have the potential to skip and propagate to far away places. Hams call CB the 11 meter band. I listen sometimes when traveling on the freeway. Not usually very helpful. We have a 10 meter ham band that has similar propagation characteristics, it only works for long distance during the day and when the solar cycle is at peak.

Ham radio does not necessarily carry over the whole world. Knowing the details of that is what makes up the material that is testable for the license. For example, during the day, 20 meters will get you all over the world, depends on conditions. At night we switch to 40 meters or 80 meters because after the sun goes down the ionosphere changes such that 20 meters (14 Mhz) goes out into space without being refracted back to earth. Bands that are good only for local traffic are 2 meters (144 Mhz), 440 and 220 Mhz. Those do not carry far and are common to use from the car on the way to work. There are also repeaters around for those local frequencies that make them carry a little farther, maybe 30 miles here in the flatland. There is also160 meters, 15 meters, 10 meters and 6 meters and some others. All of these different bands have slightly different propagation properties that are somewhat predictable and knowing about this is what makes you a radio operator as opposed to a CB nut. There is also computer software now that will tell you what frequency to use depending on where you want to talk to. Takes all the fun out of it though.

But you are correct it does require some study and equipment. Worth doing though. Hams form clubs so you get to meet and get to know the people you talk with on the radio. In fact the way to get your license is through a club. FCC does not do the testing. There is no code requirement anymore. All the questions are public record and easy to find practice online.

I learned that a storms barametric pressure is more significant than I thought.
Sandy was a Cat 1 hurricane 85mph winds, but very low 925 barometer reading made the surge higher than a Cat 4,5 storm with a higher reading.
SnF!

reply to post by Granite



It's not just that though.. People down in Florida were laughing at us because it was just a category 1. What they don't realize is down in Florida there are very few tall trees and their trees, palm trees, bend in half like a fishing rod. Up here many of us have properties carved out in woods surrounded by VERY tall trees that destroy entire homes. It's VERY different to face a storm with 500+lb branches flying sideways through the air hundreds of feet and tall trees coming down on every power line, transformer, and street. Many houses got destroyed..

Originally posted by NotThat
-most people are stupid/ selfish, and impatient

Don't forget dishonest!