Obama and Romney are essentially good men

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posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 07:06 PM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


I'm sure they don't fit the text book definition of a Hollywood villain but there's plenty of dirt of both of them, but hey, nobody is perfect. I'm sure they love their family and friends who they would do anything for. That said, Obama is our current president and is clearly not the man he sold us back in 2008 but while the president does have more powers than your average Joe they clearly are not in charge of the country, nor are our other representatives in Washington, in fact a clear and present trend over the years shows that no matter who is president the current agenda will be followed. The people who are really running the show behind the scenes are the evil ones and their actions speak louder than any of my words. Many blame Obama for signing the indefinite detention of Americans at 11:30 at night right before the new year was rung in but the blame is on the folks who run the show. Presidents are puppets, similar to Egypt's Mubarak, meant to give the public someone to blame or praise (mostly blame). The political system has become a distraction for people to argue about. Left this, Right that, meanwhile the folks who really run the show are ruining the country and the world.

Anyone who thinks Obama is getting things done is blind. Anyone who thinks Romney is the answer to our problems is blind. If people want real CHANGE then we need to root out the corruption in Gov't, which is impossible. So the world becomes less and less free each passing day and the only way to stop it is take responsible for the Gov't who claims to represent you.

Doesn't matter what people think of Obama or Romney and that's because the agenda will continue with or without them.

George Carlin ~ The American Dream


edit on 1-11-2012 by Swills because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 07:14 PM
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Originally posted by watchitburn
reply to post by Axial Leader
 

Yes, I addressed that comparing the current candidates to those dictators was excessive.


Not at all excessive. Actually I thought it was a pretty compelling part of your argument.

It is true that there have been some very evil politicians -- the possibility must be addressed. Since we can't know what is in the heart of any human, we all have to consider the possibility that a homicidal maniac resides therein. After all, the President has the ability to exterminate the world in nuclear fire. It is worth spending a moment or two thinking about that in the context of Mao, Hitler, and Stalin. So it was a good point.



The only reason people get into politics is because it is profitable. If they could not gain wealth and power from being a politician, they would be doing something else. Put all elected officials on minimum wage and see how many stick around. All the rats would jump ship. I would bet that less than 10% would stay. Those would be the ones that actually cared and wanted to fix things.


Again, you might be right about that. There does seem to be a lot of crappy and abusive politicians.

HOWEVER, going back to my point, I don't think either Romney or Obama fall into that category. I think they are probably part of the 10% or so that are motivated by the desire to help -- I don't think they are doing this for the money. For the power? Maybe -- but I don't think they want the power to punish their opposition, exact revenge, or luxuriate in endless gluttony. They just don't seem filled with enough anger, hatred, and / or sheer greed for me to consider that.

So I am basically arguing about the "goodness" of two people -- Obama and Romney-- not politicians in general. As you say, most politicians are probably rotten. Which is why it is so hard to argue my basic point and that of the OP.



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 07:27 PM
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Personally? I think those on ATS who are not US citizens should keep their trap shut and their hands to themselves. They have no clue what they are talking about, most of the time when it comes to American Politics.

I guess you can call this American Imperialism at its finest!


I mean really. They have no idea what it is like to be free and have their freedom TAKEN away a bit at a time, so who are they to suggest that one candidate is more human over another?

As an american, I LIVE being american every day. To those outside of the USA, all you read is news and see film clips.

Guess what? Most of what you read and see about the US is false.
edit on 1-11-2012 by phantomjack because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 07:29 PM
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Originally posted by MystikMushroom
reply to post by watchitburn
 

Who runs around saying, "Ooooh, I wonder what EVIL thing I can do next! Hahaha!"



You can find plenty of posters right here at ATS (as well as other locations on the web and in society) who believe that Romney and Obama are doing precisely that. A lot of people believe that Obama wants to destroy society as we know it, replace it with a communist system. And and equal number of people believe Romney is a selfish pig who cares nothing about the pain of other humans.

BTW, you can find those opinions expressed RIGHT HERE in this thread.

Neither of those viewpoints is attached to reality. That is the most alarming thing about this campaign. Some people are being overcome with irrational hatred. Which goes to the point of the OP -- neither of these guys are as bad as some of us think. The raw anger and hatred towards these candidates is remarkable.



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 07:29 PM
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Originally posted by JeZeus
I dont agree with the OP , i think Romney is a pathetic little worm for using the "hurricane" as an excuse to gain brownie points , and i think Obama is the scum of the earth for his actions since he took office.

I also think anyone who does not VOTE RON PAUL is ignorant. If you want America to be what it is supposed to be , then why turn your back on the constitution ? it makes no sense .

I feel like i woke up in the big empty and i`m surrounded by lobotomites. (Fallout
)
...
EDIT : tinhattribunal
edit on 1-11-2012 by JeZeus because: (no reason given)


Then tell me, JeZeus....since I dont see Ron Paul on the ticket, I guess Ron Paul isn't as liked as you may wish he was, eh?

I wish you Paulies would quit preaching about Ron Paul. He FAILED.

So we have TWO choices right now. One will win.

Paul wont be one of them.

Deal with it.



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 07:36 PM
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They both are representing corporations and selling real human beings and murdering children overseas as well.

A real person, who is not a dark hat, would risk life and limb, when confronted with bad guys threatening them, to tell the whole world exactly what is going on, for real, disclose it all. And work with the public to change the system.

I don't vote in my country either. I don't endorse anyone running.
edit on 1-11-2012 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 07:39 PM
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reply to post by phantomjack
 


Deal with it ? .... what exactly are you suggesting ?

Ron Paul was the only chance America ever had of rebuilding a reputation , but there`s too many christian and jewish extremists pulling the strings , America is dead , NAZI Germany lives on .



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 07:42 PM
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Originally posted by Axial Leader


Take a look at the topics on page one here. Are you kidding me? Is that who we really are?

Maybe distrust and hatred are just a deep part of human nature -- I don't want to judge my fellow ATSers to harshly.



What I am more concerned about than who becomes President is why the majority of people have become to believe that it is normal to rain hate on perfectly ordinary people who are trying to do their jobs.

Why we have come to compare these men to the genocidal likes of Hitler and Stalin.

Why it is considered boring to publish a newspaper article that does not vilify a politician.

Why antagonism rather than support and optimism is the default response.

That is troubling imo.



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 07:46 PM
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Originally posted by phantomjack
Personally? I think those on ATS who are not US citizens should keep their trap shut and their hands to themselves. They have no clue what they are talking about, most of the time when it comes to American Politics.

I guess you can call this American Imperialism at its finest!



Yeah ,you do that , just remember that America is a pathetic excuse for a country - fake money - fake politicians - and fake people. Still owned by the crown as the first charters of virginia trump the "declaration of independance" (yet you depend on the rest of the world for everything ) All empires fail , well not as quickly as america failed - saying that , america never had an empire to start with


I am not an american citizen , yet i have every right to voice my opinion on these patheic little worms running for president , as it is me and my family who need to tidy up america`s mess , fight america`s wars for them , and deal with the petulant little rat that ends up being president.

If you cant see how the system is rigged then may i suggest getting an education.



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 07:56 PM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by Axial Leader


Take a look at the topics on page one here. Are you kidding me? Is that who we really are?

Maybe distrust and hatred are just a deep part of human nature -- I don't want to judge my fellow ATSers to harshly.



What I am more concerned about than who becomes President is why the majority of people have become to believe that it is normal to rain hate on perfectly ordinary people who are trying to do their jobs.

Why we have come to compare these men to the genocidal likes of Hitler and Stalin.

Why it is considered boring to publish a newspaper article that does not vilify a politician.

Why antagonism rather than support and optimism is the default response.

That is troubling imo.


You make an excellent point.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I have become so bitter and jaded that I just can not see good in anyone anymore. Everything I see on TV is a lie. I believe nothing I hear is true, everyone is a liar with an agenda. I have noticed the gradual change in my outlook. I used to be in a great mood all the time, with a big fat smile on my face.

Not any more. Now I'm just angry and hateful.



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 08:01 PM
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reply to post by Axial Leader
 


I can understand your point of view. But if you read my reply to Skyfloating's post, you will understand why I cannot accept that they have anyone's best interests at heart.

Both have done too many damaging things to this country to be trustworthy.
edit on 1-11-2012 by watchitburn because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 03:08 AM
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Originally posted by watchitburn
Hitler, Mao, and Stalin probably thought what they were doing was best for their people too.

Now, I'm not trying to compare Obama and Romney to those guys. That would be very excessive, I'm just pointing out that people that commit "evil" acts, generally do not think what they are doing is bad. They might mean well, but they start making compromises, a little here a little there. To get done their "good" plans. But after some time they can begin to justify any atrocity. All the while believing they are still good men.


But why assume that they are the very worst of the very worst? Every President that comes along is compared to the ultimate evil...they call then "Antichrist", "Nazi", "Fascist", "Communist"...and History keeps repeating the fact that in retrospect, none of the U.S. Presidents were that.



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 03:15 AM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


I imagine Romney winning. I also imagine people keeping his feet to the fire the same as Obama was held to.

I do vow to keep the same cynical approach to Romney and pay caution to what he says vs. what he does.




posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 03:16 AM
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Originally posted by JeZeus
I dont agree with the OP , i think Romney is a pathetic little worm for using the "hurricane" as an excuse to gain brownie points , and i think Obama is the scum of the earth for his actions since he took office.

I also think anyone who does not VOTE RON PAUL is ignorant. If you want America to be what it is supposed to be , then why turn your back on the constitution ? it makes no sense .

I feel like i woke up in the big empty and i`m surrounded by lobotomites. (Fallout
)
...


Ron Paul is also a good guy, but like the two others he is not without quirks and faults. I dont see why we expect any of these people to be the Messiah. They are human beings with upsides and downsides.
The worship of politicians is another thing that worries me about this country.



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 03:22 AM
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reply to post by Swills
 


I dont think Romney or Obama is the answer to our problems. I don think any one but yourself is.

But I am aware of the inflationary use of Geroge Carlin videos to somehow "prove" that everyone working as a politician is "crooked and stupid".



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 03:29 AM
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Originally posted by JeZeus


Sorry but , Obama got a nobel peace prize for nothing , then bombed libya back to the stone age ......


Obama did not get the Nobel Prize for Libya he got them for other works. Libya was already in the stone-age before...because of a ruthless dictator. Its not Obama who is the dictator, its Gadaffi.

Nice inversion of reality.



Romney is a money sucking leech who wants nothing but more money ....


"Money sucking leech" is just an ad-hominem attack as you hear it thousands of times a day in the "alternative media" that you are parroting.




I can honestly tell you that Obama , your president , is Osama Bin Laden .


Right...





.I am simply voicing my opinion


These days everyone thinks they are entitled to voice their "opinions" which amount to nothing more than hostile polemics with no positive contribution to any state of affairs.



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 03:31 AM
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Originally posted by ThinkingCap


I just don't buy into the idea that they are pulling the strings. Rather I think they are more or less Hate Sponges. Someone has to be accountable, someone has to be to blame. Well what a great idea, instead of blaming departments - branches, and government organizations --- we just put all our anger towards one man: The President.



I agree that they are hate sponges. The populace seems to need someone to blame for their misery, so they put up a face people can throw tomatoes at. Not that this changes anything.



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 03:32 AM
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Originally posted by FissionSurplus

However, I cannot agree with you. These are politicians we're talking about here. What politician can go as high as Obama and Romney without being two-faced, saying what people want to hear but not really planning to do anything they promise?


Your view of reality then is, that people who get to the top must be evil (rather than hard working?)



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 03:34 AM
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Originally posted by Axial Leader


This is dark: but how would you feel right now if the candidate you hate the most suddenly met with an assassin's bullet?



The paranoid mind that hated the president would suddenly invert and in his mind, make him a hero that fell victim to TPTB.



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 03:36 AM
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Originally posted by lobotomizemecapin
They are both soulless


Really...



I think the presidents of the US should be forced to give up all possessions and money for 4 years before being eligible for office


What merit could there be in them not being able to support their family or practice generating income?




then they should each be forced to wander the desert for 1 month with no food just water



I disagree. If they were Jesus, they wouldnt have enough interest in day-to-day politics to be good at the job.





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