Undercover pigeon carrying WW2 secrets found

Reply to post by MDDoxs

Yeah that could be a good idea... But good luck using carrier pigeons when the earthen magnetical field is all bass ackwards and ish... I suppose there's a chance that they don't use the earths electromagnetic field as a
gps type system.... But not likely, to me anyway. I'm not an expert but it sure seems like a lot of animals use that.

Reply to post by MDDoxs
I hope I'm not repeating something that has already been mentioned here....but...
Yeah that could be a good idea... But good luck using carrier pigeons when the earthen magnetical field is all bass ackwards and ish... I suppose there's a chance that they don't use the earths electromagnetic field as a
gps type system.... But not likely, to me anyway. I'm not an expert but it sure seems like a lot of animals use that.

Originally posted by detachedindividual
Did IQ's just drop sharply while I was away? (Internet points for the person who knows where that comes from)

Code was used throughout the second world war, and it's not as simple as just looking in a book. There were differing levels of secrecy, with some cyphers restricted. Even now there will be some cyphers that are not common knowledge.

Deciphering this would have taken a key, and a key is not something you can just "work out" through looking at it.

No one here is going to be able to crack that code.

Don't you think it would have been a little stupid to use a code that could be deciphered by a layman? This was intended to remain secret from Nazis and their sympathizers, does anyone here really think that they are more intelligent than an entire WW2 code-breaking department?

I also think the reporting on this is a little pathetic. This is not urgent, obviously. No one is "frantic" about it - unless they have existing intel that Hitler built a time machine and jumped ahead to Dec 1st 2012 when he was about to be captured.

It's a fascinating story, because it connects us to what happened, and it reminds us of what people achieved back then to defeat the Nazis. This was back in a time when the British people were genuinely clever, imaginative and resourceful.

It will be interesting to see what it says, and whether that information would change our view. For all we know it could be stating that Hitler is about to surrender, or that they plan to invade the UK, or that they've developed a weapon that we then never witnessed... there are countless possibilities. Of course, it could also say "please send more toilet paper"

No. I think it was YOUR IQ that dropped sharply while you were away... Well, no... "dropped sharply" is giving you waaaay to much credit... "Vanished into thin air" would at least be closer to the reality of the situation...

First, you come prancing in here like you own the place and insult every participant of this thread for actually considering that there might be a possibility of the code being broken...

THEN... much akin to a 7 year old with add, or perhaps a goldfish whose memory resets every 3 seconds.. you yourself are speculating on how "interesting" it will be when we find out what it said. (Refer to your final paragraph in case even more of your brain cells disappeared and you can't figure out what I'm talking about...).

What's wrong? The guy with the gigantic brain who insults everybody as casually as he might pop a potato chip into his mouth can't remember what happened 3 seconds ago?? Hmmm...on second thought maybe those were paint chips instead of potato chips you were eating... An understandable blunder for an individual of your intellectual caliber. It would also explain the rapidly increasing exodus of IQ points from your sadly depleted brain... can it even be called a brain anymore after such a display in front of the entire ATS membership? Surely it hardly resembles what we would recognise as a human brain. Probably more like a small collection of brainish type cells in a petri dish.

Although I am nearly certain that you will ignore both of my recommendations, my integrity requires me to at least attempt to help a fellow human in dire need of assistance. My recommendations are as follows: 1) For the love of God and all that is true and just... STOP EATING PAINT CHIPS! 2) Please discontinue this ugly practice of waltzing on into a thread to immediately insult your fellow ATS members as if you actually think you are better than... well, ANYONE.

reply to post by thePharaoh


Pigeonholed

Sorry, just had to.

Still have a pigeon loft at work just in case the email goes down.

I think the IT weenies have to feed them.

It is a really old company...

Originally posted by kawika
Still have a pigeon loft at work just in case the email goes down.

I think the IT weenies have to feed them.

It is a really old company...

LOL. That's actually real on my world line.

I have a pigeon loft at the office and I am the IT weenie that feeds them.

reply to post by MDDoxs


That pigeon in the picture looks so smart. It may be a little off topic, but I can't help thinking about non human animals when I see this kind of thing. Birds flying here and there. They know just where to go. Whales so intelligent, dogs, cats, and you name it. I cannot help but think animals are so much more self aware and intelligent than we give them credit for. At least this is true in the community at large. Most people think, "dumb animals." When really they may be as self aware as we. Wonder if the pigeon knows the "code"?

Originally posted by marcomichael
reply to post by MDDoxs

 

**snip**
Birds flying here and there. They know just where to go.
***snip***
Wonder if the pigeon knows the "code"?

Since the pigeon got lost in a chimney it certainly didn't have "the knowledge".

Wonder if the museum has the deciphered message somewhere?

When did ATS turn in to a comedy board?

"Deny ignorance" LMAO


@detachedindividual is sad right and people actually support it.


LSGFJQQNMEEQAGK
Enjoy

Originally posted by tinker9917
Sounds like it could be the Navajo code talkers

KNOWN AS NAVAJO CODE TALKERS, they were young Navajo men who transmitted secret communications on the battlefields of WWII. At a time when America's best cryptographers were falling short, these modest sheepherders and farmers were able to fashion the most ingenious and successful code in military history. They drew upon their proud warrior tradition to brave the dense jungles of Guadalcanal and the exposed beachheads of Iwo Jima. Serving with distinction in every major engagement of the Pacific theater from 1942-1945, their unbreakable code played a pivotal role in saving countless lives and hastening the war's end.

IT IS THE ONLY UNBROKEN CODE in modern military history. It baffled the Japanese forces of WWII. It was even indecipherable to a Navajo soldier taken prisoner and tortured on Bataan. In fact, during test evaluations, Marine cryptologists said they couldn't even transcribe the language, much less decode it.

www.navajocodetalkers.org...

The Navaho used actual native words to describe what was needed to to be transmitted. Example:
Turtle ( Said in Navajo )= Tank

They did not use coded words as per say.

reply to post by 3n19m470

What is the point in ripping into the guy?

He's right, without the cipher nobody here is going to figure it out.

Originally posted by detachedindividual
Some of the brightest mathematicians were involved in code, and as far as I'm aware we don't have any genius mathematicians on ATS. Even if we did, there are far too many variables which would make a code specific to the group reading it.

I would argue that there are a couple of very well educated ATS contributors that could honestly be considered "genius" mathematicians, CLPrime comes to mind.

Originally posted by detachedindividual

 

Did IQ's just drop sharply while I was away? (Internet points for the person who knows where that comes from)

Ellen Ripley from the 1986 movie Aliens, now how many points do I get?

The message was sent to XO2 at 16:45 and contained 27 codes, each made up of five letters or numbers. The destination X02 was believed to be Bomber Command, while the sender's signature at the bottom of the message read Serjeant W Stot. Experts said the spelling of Serjeant was significant, because the RAF used J, while the Army used G.

A search of British military records and the national archives show no record of any one bearing this name. It is also thought to be a coded name.

Originally posted by mark1167

The message was sent to XO2 at 16:45 and contained 27 codes, each made up of five letters or numbers. The destination X02 was believed to be Bomber Command, while the sender's signature at the bottom of the message read Serjeant W Stot. Experts said the spelling of Serjeant was significant, because the RAF used J, while the Army used G.

A search of British military records and the national archives show no record of any one bearing this name. It is also thought to be a coded name.

where did the quote you used come from - AFAIK it is not true that the RAF used "serjeant" with a "j" - I can't find any reference to such a spelling for any British forces

pigeons r angels so cute

I did some homework, I've counted the characters of this coded message and something surprised me. The letter 'S' is just used once in the code while having 135 characters in total.

A=9
N=9
R=9
H=8
K=8
D=7
O=7
P=7
E=6
F=6
Q=6
G=5
J=5
M=5
T=5
I=4
U=4
X=4
Z=4
B=3
C=3
L=3
Y=3
V=2
W=2
S=1

Don't know if anyone can do something with this info but I just thought it might be usefull. :-)

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


i concur , the rank " flight sergeant " is one that was first used by the RFC [ royal flying corp ] - the pre-cursor of the RAF [ royal airforce ] - and is only used by the RAF and some foregn airforces that have use brishish english and have addopted british rank structures - ie canada , australia

so the speling [ sergeant ] is unambiguously pinned to RAF usage

further - a random flick through my bookself reveals that sergeant is ubiquitous in all branches of militareies using british english and british rank structures

the only rational explaination i can come up with for the use of serjeant is IF the sender was the american team member of an operation jedburgh mission

Doesn't the spelling with a 'J' refer to the abbreviation, not necessarily the full word.

Wow I love this.

Sadly this will probably be one of the last in this line of discovery.

In the future we wont find many e-mails in the chimney eh?

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

Originally posted by mark1167

The message was sent to XO2 at 16:45 and contained 27 codes, each made up of five letters or numbers. The destination X02 was believed to be Bomber Command, while the sender's signature at the bottom of the message read Serjeant W Stot. Experts said the spelling of Serjeant was significant, because the RAF used J, while the Army used G.

A search of British military records and the national archives show no record of any one bearing this name. It is also thought to be a coded name.

where did the quote you used come from - AFAIK it is not true that the RAF used "serjeant" with a "j" - I can't find any reference to such a spelling for any British forces

Not quite so, Serjeanty is an old word/meaning and I believe one distinction can be found in the Magna Carta as a rank just below Knight..

At the turn of the 20th century Serjeants still existed within the Royal House hold (and still do) a serjeant ranked as an officer at arms, there where also serjeant-surgeons and serjeant-trumpeter.

So baring that in mind (a term used within the Royal household) along with the notion this is a rare find (an encrypted carrier message) then this could well be something else and perhaps point to something to do with the Royal Household.

Edit to Add the UKs Parliament also has a "Serjeant at Arms"
www.parliament.uk...

Edit to add near miss:
Major-General (Sir) Arnold Walmsley Stott, KBE, FRCP (with extra t) was (Serjeant)Surgeon to the Royal Household and Adviser in Medicine to the U.K. Emergency Medical Service during WW2.