Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
- Oh I see so he did say SAM.
Awww, ooops my bad......even though we were talking missile interception in general in the thread.....do I know what a SAM is?
Hmmmm, well funnily enough would you believe I do? Wow, huh?! But you got to admit ones like SAM or AAM are a tad basic, no?

This is fun, shall I see if I know some you don't? Lets have a prize, eh? Most obscure acronym?

I apologize, maybe my post sounded too arrogant, i didn't want it so...

Back to topic the 60era russian IR guided misilles maybe were "advanced for it's time" but they were not especially effective( American sidewinders too ). It was very difficult to shoot down Migs-21, so it was probably impossible to take down such fast and high flying plane like SR-71 with short range IR misille.

[edit on 13-11-2004 by longbow]

Originally posted by longbow
I apologize, maybe my post sounded too arrogant, i didn't want it so...

- No worries mate. The limitations of 2d text on a screen and all that, eh?

it was probably impossible to take down such fast and high flying plane like SR-71 with short range IR misille.

- Would you say the AA6 was short range?

This was some of the beauty encapsulated in Firefox-> the Russians are moving ahead of us!

Western analysts were screaming that MiG 25 left the west playing catch-up. Then we miraculously found one on the tarmc in Japan.
Oops, maybe it wasn't that good.

Unless you were supposed to shoot down Valkyries with it. It was pretty good for that. BTW, where does look down/shoot down come into intercepting Blackbirds, surely you need look up/shoot up.

You want a manual on intercepting Blackbird, read Firefox. LOL, no really. LOL.
Wait for the operators in Kamchatka to tell you where the Sonic shadow is pointing to, alert your pilots, tell your radar operators to talk really fast, put at least two regiments in the sky, tell the pilots to ripple fire everything and then pray something tracks.

I would have said cost alone cancelled SR71 missions. Gary Powers was shot down but U2s kept flying.

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey


- Would you say the AA6 was short range?

Well it's range was better than Sidewinder, but it was still not like Sparow or other radar guided medium range misilles. Besides it was too bulky (450 kg I think) and with max speed of 4.5 mach would have hard time catching SR-71 flying M 3.2 at higher altitude.

Lt VIctor Belenko flew that Mig to Japan. It was studied and found that it was built for nothing but speed and interception. Even the rivets were not flush..........

The top speed of the SR-71 IS STILL classified.

[edit on 11/13/2004 by just_a_pilot]

howlrunner, just a pilot

interesting opinions, but in fact I do not share, if we see the specifications of the airplane is 5gs in supersonic flight, which reveals a good resistance-strength of airframe with reports of 11gs to subsonic flight, and a good participation in the Gulf War (doghfights with f15 - f18s), the one of belenko is just a treasonous good paid for the show of the propaganda of the cold war -i think that one must have criteria , if you read the book it is a subjective sweepings-, right, is not an multirol fighter (by the operative costs), but definitively is not a "dud" plane

Even the rivets were not flush

thats is not very significant, well it was mainly an steel aircraft, the unions were welded

the foxbat can shootdown the sr71, that not depends only in the max speed (there are close, also the foxbat M2.8 is loaded with missiles), also depends on the missile speed, the M3 cruiser characteristic depends on inflight refueling, i dont find any problem in the interception

[edit on 14-11-2004 by grunt]

The Foxbat that landed in Japan ran on hydraulics and valve-powered radar.

The plus of the valves is the power they put out, you can burn through interferance, but it's hardly multimode, phased-array stuff.

Fly-by-wire was what made the F-16.

The Foxbat was a Chev Corvette lining up next to a Lotus.

But against the SR 71 it was a Chev Corvette lining up next to a Jaguar XJ220.

Originally posted by grunt
the foxbat can shootdown the sr71,

Hmm what are you basing it on? Lybia had the Mig 25 and during post attack recee in Operation El Dorada Canyon, there were no intercepts. THe Mig can reach Mach 25 but not cruise at it and it burns out its engines in the process. A few degrees of cource corrections would be all the SR-71 would need to stay out of its ballistic arc.

Originally posted by grunt
Even the rivets were not flush

thats is not very significant, well it was mainly an steel aircraft, the unions were welded

the foxbat can shootdown the sr71, that not depends only in the max speed (there are close, also the foxbat M2.8 is loaded with missiles), also depends on the missile speed, the M3 cruiser characteristic depends on inflight refueling, i dont find any problem in the interception

[edit on 14-11-2004 by grunt]

Let me show you some of the problems! First, the SR-71 has some early stealth technology on it, this makes it harder for radar to track it. Second, the SR-71 has ECM on board. Useing the stealth together with the ECM means that missiles cannot track the SR-71. So, all the SR-71 needs to do to avoid interception is manever slightly and the missile won't be able to track it and change course in time to complete the intercept.

Tim
ATS Director of Counter-Ignorance

Hmm what are you basing it on? Lybia had the Mig 25 and during post attack recee in Operation El Dorada Canyon, there were no intercepts

that operation was an low level bombing ( the libians were not ready against such attack), and the export foxbat had maybe the worst radar-fire control sistem , so the libians (as the syrians and irakies) only could shoot IR missiles ,which at medium-large range and without an eficient IRST are easely avoided, so the practical range is in fact short range (like in the gulf war ), but against an sr71 mach3 sky-burner plane (by the drag-heigh cold air-engine ir signature) is easy target

THe Mig can reach Mach 25 but not cruise at it and it burns out its engines in the process.

, that plane in fact can cruiser at 2.5 mach

The plus of the valves is the power they put out, you can burn through interferance, but it's hardly multimode, phased-array stuff.

Let me show you some of the problems! First, the SR-71 has some early stealth technology on it, this makes it harder for radar to track it. Second, the SR-71 has ECM on board

well, the radar power was for an high ecm envoirement, the mig31 showed an revolutionary electronic radar, when the transistors tech become more reliable for combat specifications

Originally posted by grunt
THe Mig can reach Mach 25 but not cruise at it and it burns out its engines in the process.

, that plane in fact can cruiser at 2.5 mach

errr.... no. foxbat is not able to cruise mach 2.5. no way

but foxHOUND can, aka mig-31

Originally posted by titus


, that plane in fact can cruiser at 2.5 mach

errr.... no. foxbat is not able to cruise mach 2.5. no way

but foxHOUND can, aka mig-31

What are you trying to say - that Mig-31 has supercruise ability?

Ummm, I was talking about the MiG 25 Foxbat's radar...

and the statement is still true. It is incredibly powerful but not very versatile.

Anyone will concede that MiG 31 is a quantum leap on MiG25.

mig25-31 have M2.5 cruiser capacity (sustentation of that speed in an decent time-range), supercruiser is other concept (run at supersonic without afterburner)

There is an artical in this months (dec) AirForces Monthly mag with ref to an intercept by a Mig31 in 1984.

Ponits to remember from this intercept are.

1: The mig 31 got up to 62,000 feet

2: The SR -71 was on an intersecting course.

3: The SR-71 was leaving a contrail and he was at 72,000 feet

13,000 below normal operating height

4: the mig 31 broke off the intercept almost immeadatly and came of afterburner - it had taken him 15 minitues to get the visual.

On points 2 and 4 the SR-71 would have been monitoring the Mig31 from take off and would not stayed around to be intercepted. This was a routine mission in international airspace.

I have actually witnessed a SR-71 go across a radar scope. It was at an Air Control Squadron. The sweep of the radar is 480 nautical miles, 240 on each arc. Usually during a practice they will use a Air Force version of a buisiness jet because it is cheaper to use than a fighter and gives the contoller about the same feel when directing intercepts. The sweep of the AN/TPS 75 radar comes around and 'paints' the aircraft and the controller guides him to the enemy. They hang on the scope for quite a few revolutions even going balls to the wall. The SR-71 was painted once on the inbound and then was gone. He was not stealthed up, he was just going like a bat outta hell. No way a Foxbat can even come close to catching one. Hell with all the overflights of the former U.S.S.R. it would have been shot down if they could have done it. Its *official* speed is set at Mach 3.5. Of course its faster than that. It leaks like a sieve on the ground to allow the plane to stretch about a foot as the temp on the skin reaches about 1100 degrees F. It was mothballed in 1990. It returned in 1995 and was operational again in 1997. Currently there are 2 Blackbirds flying in the Air Force. Who knows how many the CIA has not counting what NASA has.

well, yea, hell yea, the SR-71 is really fast, but it regretfully flies like a rock, if a missile was actually fired at it(well, it depends what missile)its screwed, nice and simple, most missiles can go around Mach 3, but some, like the new Russian AA-12 Adder is capable of Mach 4.5, so i think, that the reason why the russians didn't shoot down any SR-71's is because, they simply didn't have any missiles that were fast enough, but now they do, so, the US is using satellites,

and i doubt that the ameicans flew a lot of sorties across russian air space, because, the americans, were never aware of the massive biological plants and chemical plants as well as the numerous and countless hundreds of facilities that the russians used for scientific research, the americans never really could get a clear description

and just like amerca has Area 51, russia has Saratov base(although, unlike the american base, its actually a better kept secret)

The reason the SR-71 was brought back into service is because it was noticed that sattelites could not always be on station in time...............The SR-71 has not nor will it be shot down anytime soon. Black Project does not always mean NEW. Plus, how do you KNOW what the U.S. KNEW????

[edit on 11/18/2004 by just_a_pilot]