Mig 25/31 versus the SR71?

Personally I reckon the superior electronics of the SR71 would see it through on a 1 on 1 encounter. Maybe even in a 2 on 1 encounter.

As there werer very few SR71's made there is never likely to have been more than 1 or 2 of them to intercept but Russia made quite a few Mig 25's and 31's (certainly compared and relatively speaking).

Up against a flight of 4 or more Migs I wouldn't fancy being in the SR71 Blackbird......and I think US planners understood this fully and that's one of the main reasons why they stopped over flying Russia.

(Plus when decent high-quality satellite coverage became available why risk pilots and planes when the intel could be gathered much more safely?)

Just my 2 pennies/cents.

Anyhoo my real point for coming in on this one was a comment I saw early on in the postings about high speed manoeuvers.

Basically forget it.

There aren't really any.

Look at it this way.......

at slow speeds there is an immaginary 'cone' of posssible manoeuver a plane can make but (thanks to physics.....remember there's no avoiding the physics! ) the faster one goes the smaller that 'cone' gets until you get to a point where it is tiny.

Mach 3+ is in the tiny zone.

It's a little different for missiles mainly because they don't have to consider the man in them and the sustainable 'g' limitations that dictates (weight, size and even control surface area ratios also come into it) but it does apply - but to a lesser degree - to them too.

[edit on 20-10-2004 by sminkeypinkey]

[edit on 20-10-2004 by sminkeypinkey]

Originally posted by ghost
Fact #1: The Mig can only fly at mach 3 for a few breif minutes, but the Blackbird cruses at mach 3

This means the SR-71 would be increasing the distance between the mig and itself, while the mig is still picking up speed. Once the mig is at Mach 3 the distance would remain fixed, because two objects moving at the same speed and in the same direction will remain equally spaced.

Russians intersept sr-71 by going head to head with it, for ex. if Sr-71 is going south then mig should be going north.

the reason why mig25 could not intersept is cuz there is only one person in the mig. that one pilot has to controll airplane speed constantly, if you go too fast - fried engines. you also control attitude, look at radar, be prepared to launch missile, and actually launch it, and millions of other things... just too many tasks for 1 pilot. take to note that sr-71 is going mach 3+ as well as Mig. so both aircraft approach each other at mach 6+ ... so things happen VERY quickly.

this is why mig-31 has TWO people flying it. one controls airplane, other does the navigation/radar/missile job.

when they simulated sr-71 interseption in mig-25, they couldnt, but when in mig-31, they could do it on their first try.

Too some the black-bird was the best plane ever created. It was so far ahead of its time. Each of the two jets, has something like the power of 45 trains.

[edit on 20-10-2004 by SpittinCobra]

Originally posted by titus
the reason why mig25 could not intersept is cuz there is only one person in the mig. that one pilot has to controll airplane speed constantly, if you go too fast - fried engines. you also control attitude, look at radar, be prepared to launch missile, and actually launch it, and millions of other things... just too many tasks for 1 pilot. take to note that sr-71 is going mach 3+ as well as Mig. so both aircraft approach each other at mach 6+ ... so things happen VERY quickly.

Wasn't that the reason why they equipped the MIG-25 with a basic autopilot? It could maintain course, speed, attitude, altitude, etc. so that the pilot could concentrate on the intercept.

this is why mig-31 has TWO people flying it. one controls airplane, other does the navigation/radar/missile job.

when they simulated sr-71 interseption in mig-25, they couldnt, but when in mig-31, they could do it on their first try.

You forget to mention the fact that the MIG-31 has a considerably better radar than the MIG-25, including look down/shoot down.

As far as the simulations go, how did they simulate it? They poesses no aircraft that can do what the SR-71 did.

BTW the MIG-31 was originally developed to handle the B-1A.

Originally posted by titus
This means the SR-71 would be increasing the distance between the mig and itself, while the mig is still picking up speed. Once the mig is at Mach 3 the distance would remain fixed, because two objects moving at the same speed and in the same direction will remain equally spaced.

Russians intersept sr-71 by going head to head with it, for ex. if Sr-71 is going south then mig should be going north.

the reason why mig25 could not intersept is cuz there is only one person in the mig. that one pilot has to controll airplane speed constantly, if you go too fast - fried engines. you also control attitude, look at radar, be prepared to launch missile, and actually launch it, and millions of other things... just too many tasks for 1 pilot. take to note that sr-71 is going mach 3+ as well as Mig. so both aircraft approach each other at mach 6+ ... so things happen VERY quickly.

this is why mig-31 has TWO people flying it. one controls airplane, other does the navigation/radar/missile job.

when they simulated sr-71 interseption in mig-25, they couldnt, but when in mig-31, they could do it on their first try.



The flaw in this is it assumes tht the SR-71 does not change course. If it did change course the Mig wouldn't be close enough to shoot or even have a lock!

Unless the MiGs carry a mach 6 missile, I'd think the SR-71 would just cruise away.

Here are some major factors in whether the Russians could take down an SR-71...
1. Location of the SR-71 when it is picked up on radar. If it isnt near an airfield, then interception would be more unlikely. Also, if it concluding its mission and on its way out of Russian airspace, then interception would be much harder. The most likely scenario would be if the SR-71 is near an airfield, and just entering Russian airspace.
2. Russian response time. If the Blackbird is detected early, then the Russians would have more time to respond appropriatly. If it is detected post objective, then by the time the Russians responded, it would have escaped.

Originally posted by COOL HAND
You forget to mention the fact that the MIG-31 has a considerably better radar than the MIG-25, including look down/shoot down.

As far as the simulations go, how did they simulate it? They poesses no aircraft that can do what the SR-71 did.

true, especially the Mig-31BM and its radar...


they said that they used other mig to simulate Sr-71, both migs going almost mach 3 at each other
russians didnt know that blackbird existed when they designed mig-25. so it wasnt intended to intersept sr-71, later mig-31 WAS.


btw, can sr-71 launch satellites? Mig-31S can...

Originally posted by titus
btw, can sr-71 launch satellites? Mig-31S can...

Yes as can the F-15C. The Satleite concepts was never tried on the SR-71 but no doubt it could be made to work. Rember that they air launched an ICBM out of a C-5A. When the SR-71 was flying Habu missions, the Sov's tried thier best to down one and was unable. Period. The Mig-31 no doubt in "simulated" engagments took out the Blackbierd that was more of a moral exersize than anything. The F-15's could too if the new the speed and altitude and direction of the plane. Try that exersize again with those factors and you will get different results. The Mig-31 was a great interceptor, but was not in the class of the SR-71. Maybe a much bigger leff manuverable XB-70, but not the blackbird'

I think the SR-71 could get away with a flight over Russia without getting shot down by squadrons of Mig 25 or 31's however considering that spy satellites can do most of the things the SR-71 was designed to do i don't think it would be worth the risk and there would be some risk.

Originally posted by E_T
So you would have to get very close so that missile could be able to beat Blackbird kinetically

- Or (in a war situation against something like a bomber - like the B70 it was designed to go against) you could do what what the USA did with it's genie missiles and fit a small nuclear warhead into the missile.

In which case your accuracy requirements and worries about slow-down on the coasting part of the missile flight profile aren't anything like the big deal they might have been conventionally.
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I'm still amused by the continuing comments about these fantasy manoeuvers at such high speeds.

That's part of what killed the ultra high and fast mission, you can't really manoeuver much and become a killable nice target for a decent modern high altitude missile system.

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
I'm still amused by the continuing comments about these fantasy manoeuvers at such high speeds.

That's part of what killed the ultra high and fast mission, you can't really manoeuver much and become a killable nice target for a decent modern high altitude missile system.

True - at Mach 3 you cant really do much but point the nose in a slightly different diretion.

The thing is, when you do make a small turn, it puts you very far off of your original course, which makes tracking and hitting a plane doing this very difficult.

Yeah, turn radii at those speeds are in the hundreds of miles, its like a big bad musclecar, good in a straight line. The YF-12 was a good exercise in engineering but never in a million years would it have made a decent operational aircraft. All of the Blackbird series needed extensive preflight operations, they were dependant on post takeoff refuelling and were extremely expensive to operate per hour.

And rocket motors in missiles won't burn long.
Also these missile's top speeds are for moment of motor burn out, after that they only decelerate, meaning pretty much that after motor burn out missile don't have any hope of catching.

So you would have to get very close so that missile could be able to beat Blackbird kinetically

The AMOS maxes out at around 3100 mph and has a burn of about 2.25 minutes. Consequently it is not a very manueverable missile and any "end game" corrections at that speed are a joke....