Why do you think that the origin of UFOs is Extra-terrestrial?

Let me qualify myself first: I do not believe UFOs are real, I know UFOs are real from first-hand experience after having 5 or 6 solid sightings and I do not think that they are extra-terrestrial..

Where are UFOs from? I have no idea. But since no evidence has been produced I cannot support such an opinion. And if I don't have evidence I don't make nor support claims, regardless.

Now, let me ask you simple questions:
1. Do you think UFOs are crafts?
2. If you do, why are there such a variety of shapes?
3. Do you think that if UFOs are craft, do they contain beings which would pilot the alleged craft?
4. Would you consider UFOs as remotely operated vehicles and if you do, where would their
controlers be located?
5. Why do you think UFOs are extra-terrestrial and what do you base it on?
6. Can you provide any evidence for your opinions?
7. If you do not have any evidence, then you must be employing a belief system so what led you to
your beliefs?

There is an "escape clause" and that is that UFOs have been filmed and videotaped hauling over the moon so that you can say "See, I told you UFOs are extra-terrestrial". But that doesn't satisfy me because the term E-t is used to denote other planets, other galaxies, i.o.w., vast distances, not the nearness of the moon. And I'm aware that images resembling UFOs have been recorded over Mars but they're rare and not as numerous as over earth.

So for this discussion, E-t is not near but far (think Zeta Reticuli and beyond).

had second thoughts... deleted.

Because the guys who build earth made Ufo's say they got the tech from space aliens.

reply to post by The Shrike


Dear The Shrike,

I will play.

1. Do you think UFOs are crafts?

They may or not be, they are physical manifestations of a consciousness at work in the universe.

2. If you do, why are there such a variety of shapes?

Each may manifest themselves as they will and in fact many observations of UFOs show them changing their physical characteristics.

3. Do you think that if UFOs are craft, do they contain beings which would pilot the alleged craft?

Again, physical manifestations of sentience.

4. Would you consider UFOs as remotely operated vehicles and if you do, where would their
controlers be located?

No, I consider them as being directly operated and part of the sentience that is manifesting them.

5. Why do you think UFOs are extra-terrestrial and what do you base it on?

This gets tricky. I don't see them as from being from other planets or natural beings that came to being from other planets; but, they may have visited them. It is a big playground out there and worthy of observation.

6. Can you provide any evidence for your opinions?

Yes, but nobody has anything definitive.

7. If you do not have any evidence, then you must be employing a belief system so what led you to
your beliefs?

I cannot say I am employing one believe system. I believe in science and I believe in God and I believe that my observation of my experience is the only thing that I can know for sure.

They are most likely Extra-Terrestrial, unless the Greeks and earlier had UFOs in their ancient days

There are many many reports of some objects flying in the sky, it scared the crap out of ancient civilizations, I know it's written in some books about first hand accounts. Theres also proof in their drawings, many cave drawings and what not symbolize UFOs. So, yes, they are more than like Extra-Terrestrial. Unless the United States went back in time just to scare the crap out of ancient civilizations.

Edit: Oh crap, you asked WHY, I thought you asked if they were Extra-Terrestrial or not. I reworded your thread into my own words. I must be tired as hell.

Well, why I think they are Extra-Terrestrial is almost the same as my original response. Many drawings in Egypt, China, and even from many indian tribes, depict some sort of humanoid being emerging from what appears to be a ship, and that ship, generally appears to be a space ship (of course I don't see what else it could be in those times) i'm 100% certain i've seen such drawings, i'll see if I can find a source or two tomorrow, too tired to do it right now though.

seeing as how i'm actually awake at this ridiculous time of the morning i'll answer those!

1. yes i believe some of them are crafts.
2. variety of shapes because, like our modes of transport over the years, they evolve or get upgraded.
3. i think some are piloted craft and some aren't. like our planes, and our mars rovers.
4. some yes, they're either programmed internally, or controlled from afar... if from afar then either their home world, or another craft somewhere, i've seen them go from solid visible to invisible so i don't think its out of the question to suppose that some could be invisible.
5. i think some are extra terrestrial and i base it on my own communications with them once.
6. nope, can anybody?
7. yes. aviation background, eyes that have seen manoeuvres that aren't possible with our current understanding of physics, and communication.

as an add on, i believe there are multiple races of ET, i thought that before the internet existed and before ufos were as widely reported as they are now.

obviously discounting the earth-made craft, whether they're from inner earth, the moon, mars, jupiter, or some far away distant place we haven't yet discovered, i believe most of them are from somewhere else. i can't rule out the inner earth theory for some of them, and i can't rule out the theory of underwater bases for some of them.. but i don't believe that is for all of them.

in short, i've seen loads and loads of ufos, i don't believe that our current civilisation is anything to do with them due to the nature of their movements and abilities.

wonder how many people are going to call us nutjobs now!

Until I have absolute proof,

I believe that they are some black project aircraft.

Countries of the world spend a lot of money on r and d. I think that they have a little bit more than radio controlled drones in the hanger.

It sounds more logical than a being from another planet visiting us. I think that the governments want us to believe it is alien.

Just my opinion.

Originally posted by TehSlenderMan
They are most likely Extra-Terrestrial, unless the Greeks and earlier had UFOs in their ancient days

There are many many reports of some objects flying in the sky, it scared the crap out of ancient civilizations, I know it's written in some books about first hand accounts. Theres also proof in their drawings, many cave drawings and what not symbolize UFOs. So, yes, they are more than like Extra-Terrestrial. Unless the United States went back in time just to scare the crap out of ancient civilizations.

Edit: Oh crap, you asked WHY, I thought you asked if they were Extra-Terrestrial or not. I reworded your thread into my own words. I must be tired as hell.

Well, why I think they are Extra-Terrestrial is almost the same as my original response. Many drawings in Egypt, China, and even from many indian tribes, depict some sort of humanoid being emerging from what appears to be a ship, and that ship, generally appears to be a space ship (of course I don't see what else it could be in those times) i'm 100% certain i've seen such drawings, i'll see if I can find a source or two tomorrow, too tired to do it right now though.

edit on 1-11-2012 by TehSlenderMan because: (no reason given)

That's what I was going to say pretty much. There have been reports of UFO's long before the first airoplane was even built. Someone must be piloting those things.

reply to post by ladyteeny

i don't believe that our current civilisation is anything to do with them due to the nature of their movements and abilities.

I must disagree. There are many reports that the U.S. Has experiments to maneuver such ships, due to the Roswell crash, there are Ship(s) (others probably gathered from other crashes) and there are reports of live aliens being there. Point being, I've hear a few stories saying that America is getting successful with controlling these aircrafts because these aliens are allowing them to, but it isn't hard to believe that we may have them, and may be close to piloting them, I mean, with the technology we have, about 50 years should be enough to reverse engineer, besides, everyone knows in reality, technology is secretly about 30 years ahead, so i'm sure they are using that as well to reverse engineer. I unfortunately can't find a source for this, very long time ago i've read about this. I am a complete geek when it comes to anything alien. So I myself am a source

reply to post by TehSlenderMan


Gave you a star because history of UFOs predates human technological advances, even if some could be explained away by natural phenomena some do not or happen coincidentally in important moments (especially battles) and other instances like the remarks in Columbus diary...

But even so I do not share the certainty that they are out of this Earth (in the meaning you use seem to be using extra-terrestrial), there are many option available.

I however do not share the view that they are benign and the more esoteric opinions like the one above about manifestation of consciousness, in any case an highly technologically advanced phenomena would seem and be explained as magic by us, but in fact it would only be an illusion, a trick, even if born of our own inability to rationalize it.

reply to post by TehSlenderMan


to a certain extent i agree. however i've seen them go invisible, move faster than the speed of light, and move in erratic flight patterns that todays technology (and pilots), and even technology for the next 20/30 years, won't be able to reproduce. yet.

1. Yes, some of them.
2. Who knows? Perhaps different crafts serve different functions. Perhaps they belong to different races, or different factions of a single race. Perhaps some of them are ours.
3. Again, yes, some of them.
4. It's possible, sure. The controllers could be in a different craft or a remote nearby location.
5. I think some UFOs are most likely craft that belong to extra-terrestrials. There have been plenty of reports of close encounters of the first, second, and third kind to point in that direction. The technology of these craft appear far above and beyond what is currently known to be the product of human ingenuity, and the beings seen along with these craft are rarely human in appearance. I feel it's a safe assumption to say we are not unaware of an advanced intelligent species living here on Earth this whole time--though I know some will disagree--and I feel the interdimensional hypothesis is unnecessary, therefor, the ET hypothesis seems to hold the most weight.
6. Who truly has the evidence to confirm UFOs as specifically extra-terrestrial? I'm certainly no "contactee" and have had no communication with any aliens, nor have I witnessed a flying saucer taking off from another planet to make its way to Earth.
7. If a hypothesis can be called a belief system, then sure. I've already mentioned a few reasons why I hold to this hypothesis, though I have many others. I'll cite the Roswell Incident, Betty and Barney Hill, and Bob Lazar, though I've heard your opinions on these subjects before, Shrike, and I'm sure I have little to offer to sway you toward my hypothesis. Likewise, I think you could say the same for me.


I think a far better question is: why do you think UFOs are not of extra-terrestrial origin? What evidence do you have that allows you to rule out that possibility? Is absence of evidence evidence of absence?

1. Do you think UFOs are crafts?

- Yes

2. If you do, why are there such a variety of shapes?

- Design diversity amongst manufacturers. And... most pics are fakes anyway.

3. Do you think that if UFOs are craft, do they contain beings which would pilot the alleged craft?

- Some yes. Some no. Depends upon whether they are in test or production.

4. Would you consider UFOs as remotely operated vehicles and if you do, where would their
controlers be located?

- Sure... the ones being tested...Controllers are probably located at military facilities.

5. Why do you think UFOs are extra-terrestrial and what do you base it on?

- I don't think they are ET for the most part. I suppose there is a possibility of some ET tech used, whether that was reverse-engineered from a crash, or passed to humans via some other method.

6. Can you provide any evidence for your opinions?

- The one and only one I ever saw back in 1973 was in the vicinity of Vandenberg AFB.

1. Do you think UFOs are crafts?
2. If you do, why are there such a variety of shapes?
3. Do you think that if UFOs are craft, do they contain beings which would pilot the alleged craft?
4. Would you consider UFOs as remotely operated vehicles and if you do, where would their
controlers be located?
5. Why do you think UFOs are extra-terrestrial and what do you base it on?
6. Can you provide any evidence for your opinions?
7. If you do not have any evidence, then you must be employing a belief system so what led you to
your beliefs?

1. I define a UFO as a many would, an unidentified flying object. The majority of reports indicate a metallic structure, so based on a 'hard outer case' design i presume they would be crafts.

2. Obviously because there are many ways to fly, just as there are to move across land or water.

3. Crafts that are piloted are just as plausible as remotely operated crafts, or even AI crafts.

4. If they were remotely operated perhaps they come from inside of our earth rather than outer space.

5. Now that i think about it, the only reason i associated UFO's with 'outer space ET's' is because of cultural programming. I suppose one could be equally creative in envisioning an inner earth entity. Current theories about an inner earth form of life are just as plausible as any outer space life forms.

6. Life exists on all levels, all planes, all dimensions, or whatever label one would like to use.... there is nothing in creation, nothing that we can witness as human beings, that is not living. Death is often misinterpreted as the end, when it is merely a transition to more life. The body that holds our electric essence is one plane/dimension/level that we experience. I believe there is life out there because we already know it exists on a level we can see with our own eyes all the way down to so small microscopes must be used, all the way down to the building blocks of our reality. There is a universal pattern and it goes downwards in perspective just as it does upwards. The levels of consciousness and life in the cosmos is tough to interpret because it outlives us as human beings, which limits our perspective and scope of understanding; whereas on the microscopic level we can watch thousands of lifespans of a cell unfold in a matter of human minutes. There is life out there, but when we are conditioned to look for a specific thing to label 'ET / UFO / Life form' we automatically limit what we are able to see. I believe there is a higher power. I think labels confuse people, because i have often told people that i believe in "god" but i dont really know what to call it to be honest. I do know it exists, and i have experienced enough of it that i can wholeheartedly have faith in it.

7. My old beliefs of UFO's and "green aliens" were certainly from cultural conditioning. My current beliefs are based almost entirely on the feelings, emotions, daydreams, and thoughts that I encountered when I experimented with a...and without infringing upon ATS terms and conditions i will only use a vague and harmless label to identify.... naturally growing from mother earth hallucinogenic substance. I had so many things happen all at once, and the sheer gravity of how the events impacted my heart and soul, that i determined there was no such thing as a 'coincidence'. The higher power revealed itself to me.

Thank you for reading, I hope you found my thoughts entertaining!

reply to post by The Shrike


UFO's are unidentified things in the sky. Let's work from this point of view. Obviously there is technology being used (as far as our current paradigm dictates). I don't personally believe that our militaries have the kind of technology that the things appearing in our skies have, SO a decent percentage of them must come from ELSEWHERE, as far as the process of elimination goes.

They are obviously here, as you are aware, but why? Well that is explained in many places, but that may not satisfy your need for 'evidence'.

Looking at right brain issues with a left brain perspective doesnt help i have found, you need to think outside of our current paradigm, push the limits of understanding.

But more to the point, if they're not made on earth, which i certainly dont believe they are, then they MUST be ET. What other conclusion can one come to? Also this is looking at it from a very limited perspective, as personally I believe they are from other DIMENSIONS. The shapes of the craft may just be different designs from different planets, who knows, although what I personally know and understand is that MANY different races and people are visiting our planet and checking on us, this could explain the different shapes.

You need to look outside of what you think you know, its far more interesting than any of us can even begin to comprehend.

Peace Shrike

Until there is evidence produced that proves or justifies that there is NO possible possibility of any UFOs having an ET origin then that possibility remains valid until proven otherwise.Premature rejections of the ET possibility ,(or an ET intelligence having the technology to visit us), at our current understanding is not a wise mind set to have or indeed the perception of no possibilities is not a scientific protocol i would encourage.

I just find it really arrogant and indeed unwise to prejudge such possibilities of ET origins for how can we come to such pre mature judgements does suggest agendas of debunking at any cost, even it means ignoring the wealth of evidence outside the "UFO landing on the Whitehouse lawn" situation of those UFO cases that contain high levels of strangeness unexplainable flight characteristics ect, if there was none of the latter then maybe there would be a case of no possible ET origins but there ARE. Offer proof or evidence that there is no possibility of ET intelligences behind even just one UFO report until then the ET possibility stands , "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" that works also to for the claims of no possible ET origins. The ET source stands as one of a number of explanations and at present cannot be removed from that list.

reply to post by The Shrike


1. AFV [Alien Flying Vehicles] are craft.
2. Like a typical aircraft carrier, there are multiple shaped craft to do a variety of task.
There may also be multiple species visiting, which means even more variety.
3. They would be pilot driven.
4. There may be small drone type craft flying around. These would be controlled by ET’s based in our oceans as well as underground. They would also have bases on the Moon and Mars. ET is here. They do not spend all their time flying back and forth.
5. Because humans cannot make or fly craft such as those seen.
6. Seeing is believing, but that won’t help you. So here is a refresher:

Take the Battle of Los Angeles for example in 1942. People saw up to 25 silvery UFO’s over the city that night. One of them, either having trouble or playing Guinea Pig to test air defenses, hung in the air for an extended length of time. Balloons and dirigibles are among the easiest things in the air to destroy, so we can count that out because not only did the UFO change directions and go against the wind, but this UFO was fired upon over and over and took multiple hits while over the city. Unlike a balloon which would have been shredded, none of the hits brought it down. In fact it came back again to offer more target practice. So here we have an aircraft that can withstand antiaircraft fire and fly slow enough to take all the recon photos one could want and maybe the option to deliver pin point bombing.

Or how about Mount Rainer, 1947, where nine flying saucers were clocked doing 1,800 miles an hour. Even at Arnold’s toned down 1,200 mph that is still much faster than anything the US had flying at the time.

If these were American secret aircraft, what happened to them? If you look at saucer sightings from the 40’s you will find saucer technology that can hover in place and take off at terrific speeds, all without making much of a sound.

Have you seen a car from the 1940’s? Do you realize how old, slow and ungainly they look compared to what is driven today? Where are these military aircraft that could hover silently as well as travel at a thousand miles an hour? Where are they today? What museum are they in? What are their names and numbers? Where are the missing hot shot pilots who flew them?

Or have these saucers been updated like the B52? Would the military really put tons of money into updating a design from the 1940’s? If so, why does the military fly junk like the Nighthawk and B2 when in the 40’s they were flying saucers that were much superior to both? Why spend millions of dollars to fly a stealth fighter when a 40’s saucer could fly circles around it?

Neither the Nighthawk, the Blackbird, or the U2 have UFO flight characteristics and cannot account for UFO sightings. But like the Aurora [named after the 1897 UFO crash], the US military does have secret aircraft, but all of these aircraft are alien tech, taken from the saucer crashes of the 40’s, 50’s and 60’s. Those saucers seen flying in the skies 70 years ago were being flown by beings from another planet.

Secret military craft are not responsible for sightings such as saucers, cigars and triangles.

Originally posted by TehSlenderMan
They are most likely Extra-Terrestrial, unless the Greeks and earlier had UFOs in their ancient days

There are many many reports of some objects flying in the sky, it scared the crap out of ancient civilizations, I know it's written in some books about first hand accounts. Theres also proof in their drawings, many cave drawings and what not symbolize UFOs. So, yes, they are more than like Extra-Terrestrial. Unless the United States went back in time just to scare the crap out of ancient civilizations.

Edit: Oh crap, you asked WHY, I thought you asked if they were Extra-Terrestrial or not. I reworded your thread into my own words. I must be tired as hell.

Well, why I think they are Extra-Terrestrial is almost the same as my original response. Many drawings in Egypt, China, and even from many indian tribes, depict some sort of humanoid being emerging from what appears to be a ship, and that ship, generally appears to be a space ship (of course I don't see what else it could be in those times) i'm 100% certain i've seen such drawings, i'll see if I can find a source or two tomorrow, too tired to do it right now though.

edit on 1-11-2012 by TehSlenderMan because: (no reason given)

Images, especially ancient ones, are open to decipherment and there are rarely, if any, notes from the artist as to why they drew the image so it really depends on what you've learned from others which automatically color the way you think. We have to depend on medical experts to keep us healthy. But giving an opinion on an image is strictly a personal opinion where there are no facts to fall upon.

"Uncivilized" natives see human aircraft flying overhead and they construct thoughts about what they are seeing and also construct representations which they then hold religiously. But I doubt if any of them think that what they're seeing originated outside of earth because their minds have not been influenced by the romantic notion of extra-terrestrials as a possible source. We create extra-terrestrial out of whole cloth because that's the easiest explanation although there is no actual evidence to support it. Circumstanciial evidence only and it's weak.

Originally posted by Damsel
snip
I think a far better question is: why do you think UFOs are not of extra-terrestrial origin? What evidence do you have that allows you to rule out that possibility? Is absence of evidence evidence of absence?

I appreciate your well-tought-out comments, as well as others' similar comments. But I want to jump to your question as no question should be left unanswered if it's worth an answer.

You asked: "Is absence of evidence evidence of absence?" In my opinion absence of evidence is a complete statement. If there is no evidence to discuss, to handle, to compare, then there is no evidence. When there is evidence, the claim is supported. Which leads me to tell you that since I have never heard nor seen any evidence to support the E-t hypothesis, then I have to discount the reality. Reality is equal to nuts and bolts. Reality does not depend on beliefs. Reality is. But I know you must agree with that.

My only problem with the ETH is, as I've said, that UFOs have been seen flitting over the moon's surface and possibly recorded by Mars rovers. But even though they qualify as extra-terrestrial, I' thinking more on the romantic notion of UFOs and their possible passengers as being from far, far away.

Originally posted by okamitengu
had second thoughts... deleted.

edit on 1-11-2012 by okamitengu because: (no reason given)

That's too bad, I would have liked to have read your opinion. Try again.