POST SANDY: "People are turning on each other -- they're attacking each other"

reply to post by Asktheanimals

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
I haven't heard much mention of the most vulnerable - the sick, disabled and the aged - those with medical needs that can't wait.

Well, I have certainly asserted as much.

I really find it distasteful all the finger wagging going on in this thread and elsewhere.

I'm sorry. It's been 3 days. I just can't feel any sympathy for them. They had a week's notice of this storm, and they knew winter was coming ever since last winter came. The power can go out anytime, and last for a week or more, it happens regularly enough.

Well, that's a bit harsh - some have damaged homes, and perhaps have had their supplies damaged / destroyed by water or, perhaps, looters.

But in the main, yes, people should've been prepared to survive more than 3 days - basic non-perishable foodstuffs are cheap - a bag of rice, Ramen noodles, cans of tuna, soup, etc are dirt-cheap, and if you can't afford bottled water, fill up some pots with water beforehand. Many probably couldn't be bothered, and now expect others to bail them out. I prepared for the storm, and I know many neighbors didn't. I probably wouldn't have much sympathy for them if things had been worse here, but I'd still want them to receive help.

Thing is, you can't really distinguish between someone who was too lazy to prepare vs. someone who's so poor they couldn't afford to prepare vs. someone who was prepared, but whose supplies are damaged. You have to help them all, whether you think they deserve it or not.

After Katrina, I know people who rented trucks, which we filled with food, water, bleach, clothing, ice, etc, and they drove down to affected areas and just handed it out to whoever wanted it, no one lectured them about how they should've prepared better.

Yet I also remember in Katrina they actually arrested people, driving in from other states, not coming to bring food/help, but to loot. These events show us the very best of people, and the very worst.

As for the looting, most of what I've read about are those who are taking advantage of what they think is a breakdown in order to steal things that have nothing to do with survival. I don't consider someone taking a loaf of bread a looter - but someone who steals a 60" flatscreen or a case of liquor or all the Oxycodone they can carry *are* looters, and honestly, I wouldn't weep for them if someone shot them - as cold as it sounds, that wouldn't be some great loss to society - they're not going on to cure cancer, more accurately, they are cancer. To me, there's a very short step between breaking into a store as part of a mob to steal material goods -- and killing someone for those same things.

Because what's frightening to most of us is they remind us how close to breakdown our society is, every day - take away the fear of getting caught and punished, and we see that there are many, many people who'd steal everything you own, including your life, if they feared no consequences, and if they wanted what you had.

reply to post by Expat888


I agree this isn't surprising to hear coming from NJ or NY everyone knows people up north are loud & mean...lol

Where as Lousiana, MS, AL & FL are in the South and Southerners are known to be nicer...

Seriously though they obviously didn't think twice about what happened to the Katrina Victims or they would have listened, evacuated, and prepared better if they had.

reply to post by squittles


You're right. I'm not saying nobody should help them. Anyone willing and able to help, should be doing all they can, without qualifying who needs it the most or the least. Just help as much as you can help.

I'm just tired of the headlines saying "help is slow coming" or "residents becoming agitated at lack of response" etc. Those headlines are crap, and if people really are feeling that way, then they are crap too.

The help will come, as quickly and as adequately as humanly possible. Nobody is intentionally wishing ill will on these people, but it's hard to be sympathetic for folks that aren't appreciative of whatever efforts are being made.

Now, I'm still undecided on the Bloomberg decision to have the marathon, and on the Pittsburgh Steelers/NY Giants game still being a go. That seems like a recipe for disaster. Why have people coming into the city? Why have resources pulled aside to work a game, or work a marathon? I'm thinking that is pretty stupid, but maybe it is important to retain as much normalcy as possible? The Saints season surely helped NOLA recover after Katrina, so maybe Bloomberg knows what he's doing.

I can't help remembering how there was so much out cry against saving New Orleans after Katrina and comments reguarding the inhabitants during and after; looting, not evacuating,...etc.

It looks like human behavior is not so different in the civilized north and some, excuse the pun, chickens are coming home to roost.

Bridgeport, Connecticut - People egg Utility workers. Kind of reminds me of the stories of people shooting at helicopters in New Orleans after Katrina.

www.foxnews.com...

Originally posted by loam
reply to post by darkhorserider

 

You will get no argument from me about the role of government in situations like this one. But I won't share in your sentiment that these people should be vilified for their lack of preparation or poor understanding of the risk.

I don't think you understand the situation up there. Many lost everything, even the ones who were never told they were at this level of risk. As of yesterday, there were still more than 20,000 people trapped in their homes OUTSIDE of the announced evacuation zones.

Even the ones who did prepare, lost nearly everything as the unimaginable happened and flooded the first level of their homes.

Moreover, I have often thought evacuation zones are a bad idea. They produce a false sense of security. What we should promote are RISK ZONES that account for not only the severity of an impending event, but the likely aftermath as well. The idea would be you have X percentage of extreme danger to life. The rest is up to you. I think this would produce a slight improvement in the way people would react to such impending events. In fact, there should be two types of RISK rankings: one for acute events and one for less predictable events, requiring disclosure in every purchase and rental agreement of realty.

Remember, many in Moonachie, Carlstadt and Little Ferry had no idea a levee even existed near their towns that might place them in peril. Who's fault is that?

Do evacuation zones really work? I just remember that right after Katrina hit hurricane Rita was a big category 5 barreling toward the coast and people completely freaked out. No one listened to Rick Perry's advice about evacuating according to zone, they all left at the same time and jammed up the roads. People ran out of gas, clogged the roads, started fights. A bus exploded carrying nursing home residents and killed 24.

Here are the pictures of the jammed roads from Rita:

www.bing.com...

Governer Christie told people 'don't be stupid; get out'. How many listened?

What I find startling is the lack of places that are receiving donations. I am in the West and during Katrina, I donated personal goods and canned foods. There were semis that brought the donated goods to the people in the NO area. I haven't seen anything like that. All I hear is the media touting the Red Cross and basically telling everyone we don't want your canned goods. Some people may not have $20+ to donate but they have spare food they would be willing to share. What is going on? I like people and I dislike suffering. Are we just becoming to hardened to the suffering of our fellow Americans?

reply to post by AuntB


That's what I hate about all these things, and why I'm somewhat jaded to the whole thing. They want cash, not coats, not socks, not blankets, but cash. Apparently they don't even want volunteer utility workers unless they are unionized. There have been several utility company trucks turned away, because they didn't have union cards.

I will never donate cash. If they are in dire need, they will accept my blankets, or socks, or time. If all they want is cash, then they don't need me.

I have a close friend that travelled to Haiti before and after their big disaster, and he was justifying why the cash was more useful than the supplies. Something about the corrupt government, and laws forbidding certain imports, and how cash could be used to by local supplies and avoid the tariffs, but screw that. It is either a disaster or it isn't. If it is, then all help should be appreciated, and if all help is not appreciated, then it is not a disaster.

Obama speaks at Red Cross on Sandy relief effort...This was on OCT. 30...It's Nov. 2nd and everyone wants to know where the red cross is...Well this is what happens when your President leads from behind..and Obviously no one is listening too...

Source

Speaking at Red Cross National Headquarters in Washington, D.C., President Obama explains the details of the federal relief effort in New Jersey, New York and other areas of the country that were hit hard by Hurricane Sandy.

By all means lets take him up on his idea and call him personally and get things done.
Staten Island I'm sure would appreciate it...
Source

Originally posted by snarky412

Originally posted by jessejamesxx
It's a good thing police don't have to go in and disarm law biding citizens like they did with Katrina.. Aren't most guns illegal there already?

No......you can get a permit to carry in Louisiana.
[ 5 yr permit, I think]

They did disarm the good people of N.O. during Katrina which left them defenseless against the thugs that had guns, which were used to rob the families that were left without their guns.
Bad mistake, IMO........

I'm sorry, but that was sarcasm, and I meant that guns are pretty much illegal already in NY, so police don't have to do what they did during Katrina.

Originally posted by Xaphan

Originally posted by Stormdancer777

Originally posted by Xaphan
So why isn't the mainstream media reporting this? Are they trying to keep it quiet so others won't see it and get the courage to go do it themselves?

There is an election soon.

I might come across as ignorant for asking this, but how do the two correlate exactly? Do you mean that they would rather save all the airtime for election coverage?

I mean they don't want the dear leader to look bad.

reply to post by texasgirl


I came across this survivalist food plan based on how the Mormons stockpile, I might as well try it, I found it only because I posted under another topic how Romney and Mormons are prepared, I believe they encourage a two year supply.

www.thesurvivalistblog.net...

People have criticized Romney for his food drive and his stand on FEMA, the Red Cross want only cash, and the people of NY wonder were FEMA is.

www.thenewyorkworld.com...

Something I don't know much about.

Paul says FEMA is broke,
Ron Paul says FEMA is broke, gets in the way

youtu.be...

Stranded New Yorkers Are Defecating in Apartment Buildings

FEMA Corruption Exposed

February 25, 2009 4:59 PM

"Only On The Web:" Charles Gibson, a former FEMA employee, explains to Armen Keteyian the corruption he witnessed first-hand while employed at FEMA's office in New Orleans.
www.cbsnews.com...

reply to post by loam


I heard about that but hesitated to post it, ya think they could move some porta potties in for them?

Sandy's aftermath leaves N.J. residents in a dismal waiting game for power, gas

For millions of people, power is still out; the nights are getting colder.

Gas is nearly impossible to find in many areas and where there is gas, you have to wait in line for hours to get it. The state was dotted with thousands of people carrying red gas containers as they crossed through traffic, stood exchanging information on the latest open stations, waited in line or just gave up.

There was tension, tension everywhere. Some gas stations called in the police to stand watch over angry customers.

Many streets remained impassible, schools shuttered, businesses were still closed and new deaths were being reported — not from the storm, but the deadly fumes of emergency generators running nonstop throughout the night in so many darkened neighborhoods.

Four days after Hurricane Sandy devastated New Jersey, the state is still in dire crisis. And if things weren’t bad enough, another storm is on the way.

reply to post by Stormdancer777


Try to find the LDS preparedness manual online. It's free, and once you get past all the Mormon bits it's very helpful for starting to seriously prep.

Here you go.

www.green-trust.org...

Originally posted by khimbar
reply to post by Stormdancer777

 

Try to find the LDS preparedness manual online. It's free, and once you get past all the Mormon bits it's very helpful for starting to seriously prep.

Here you go.

www.green-trust.org...

thank you I was planning on doing that and you made it easy for me.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777

Originally posted by khimbar
reply to post by Stormdancer777

 

Try to find the LDS preparedness manual online. It's free, and once you get past all the Mormon bits it's very helpful for starting to seriously prep.

Here you go.

www.green-trust.org...

You're welcome.



thank you I was planning on doing that and you made it easy for me.

If I had to evacuate where I am I don't know where I would go. I don't have enough money to stay in a hotel for weeks without income waiting for things to get restored. Also I have a pet. Where would I go that would allow me to take him?

If I were in the situation those in NJ and NY were in I wouldn't leave either, unless I thought I might actually die during the storm (like living right on the coast).

I would rather wait it out at home. I have a kerosene heater and kerosene to keep warm in an emergency. I have solar flashlights (charge during the day - light at night). Some food stocked enough for a month at least. Propane for a gas grill. And if there was some forewarning I would fill up every available container with water for drinking, bathing and flushing. I even have some wood stocked for burning if need be.

Of course if my house were washed away or something and I had nothing left not even my preparations ....

I guess I would have to rely on the generous spirit of my fellow human beings

uh oh!!


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@khimbar thanks for the pdf link