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London MEGA Mosque o_O

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posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 05:37 PM
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Originally posted by ollncasino
spread Islam by the sword.
Islam. Not quite as peaceful as Muslims would like you to believe.

www.irf.net... lim&Itemid=199
It is a common complaint among some non-Muslims that Islam would not have millions of adherents all over the world, if it had not been spread by the use of force. The following points will make it clear, that far from being spread by the sword, it was the inherent force of truth, reason and logic that was responsible for the rapid spread of Islam

2. Sometimes force has to be used to maintain peace

Each and every human being in this world is not in favour of maintaining peace and harmony. There are many, who would disrupt it for their own vested interests. Sometimes force has to be used to maintain peace. It is precisely for this reason that we have the police who use force against criminals and anti-social elements to maintain peace in the country. Islam promotes peace. At the same time, Islam exhorts its followers to fight where there is oppression. The fight against oppression may, at times, require the use of force. In Islam force can only be used to promote peace and justice.

3. Opinion of historian De Lacy O’Leary

The best reply to the misconception that Islam was spread by the sword is given by the noted historian De Lacy O’Leary in the book “Islam at the cross road” (Page 8):

“History makes it clear however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of the sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myths that historians have ever repeated.”

4. Muslims ruled Spain for 800 years

Muslims ruled Spain for about 800 years. The Muslims in Spain never used the sword to force the people to convert. Later the Christian Crusaders came to Spain and wiped out the Muslims. There was not a single Muslim in Spain who could openly give the adhaan, that is the call for prayers.

5. 14 million Arabs are Coptic Christians

Muslims were the lords of Arabia for 1400 years. For a few years the British ruled, and for a few years the French ruled. Overall, the Muslims ruled Arabia for 1400 years. Yet today, there are 14 million Arabs who are Coptic Christians i.e. Christians since generations. If the Muslims had used the sword there would not have been a single Arab who would have remained a Christian.

6. More than 80% non-Muslims in India

The Muslims ruled India for about a thousand years. If they wanted, they had the power of converting each and every non-Muslim of India to Islam. Today more than 80% of the population of India are non- Muslims. All these non-Muslim Indians are bearing witness today that Islam was not spread by the sword.

7. Indonesia and Malaysia

Indonesia is a country that has the maximum number of Muslims in the world. The majority of people in Malaysia are Muslims. May one ask, “which Muslim army went to Indonesia and Malaysia?”

8. East Coast of Africa

Similarly, Islam has spread rapidly on the East Coast of Africa. One may again ask, if Islam was spread by the sword, “which Muslim army went to the East Coast of Africa?”

9. Thomas Carlyle

The famous historian, Thomas Carlyle, in his book “Heroes and Hero worship”, refers to this misconception about the spread of Islam:

“The sword indeed, but where will you get your sword! Every new opinion, at its starting is, precisely in a minority of one. In one man’s head alone, there it dwells as yet. One man alone of the whole world believes it, there is one man against all men. That he takes a sword, and try to propagate with that, will do little for him. You must first get your sword! On the whole, a thing will propagate itself as it can.”

10. No compulsion in religion

With which sword was Islam spread? Even if Muslims had it they could not use it to spread Islam because the Qur’an says in the following verse:

“Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error”

[Al Qur’an 2:256]

11. Sword of the Intellect

It is the sword of intellect. The sword that conquers the hearts and minds of people. The Qur’an says in Surah An Nahl, Chapter 16 Verse 125:

“Invite (all) to the way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious.”

[Al Qur’an 16:125]

12. Increase in the world religions from 1934 to 1984

An article in Reader’s Digest ‘Almanac’, year book 1986, gave the statistics of the increase of percentage of the major religions of the world in half a century from 1934 to 1984. This article also appeared in ‘The Plain Truth’ magazine. At the top was Islam, which increased by 235%, and Christianity had increased only by 47%. May one ask, which war took place in this century which converted millions of people to Islam?

13. Islam is the fastest growing religion in America and Europe

Today the fastest growing religion in America is Islam. The fastest growing religion in Europe is Islam. Which sword is forcing people in the West to accept




posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 05:38 PM
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Originally posted by 0SolidSnake0
Muhammed said : he would fight till people acknowledge the truth.
I don't see anything wrong with that. You don't know how people used to live back then .chaos.. You are taking theses sayings which are what muhamed said back then, and interpreting them as teachings to muslims of today . Back then the people who worshiped statues or nonbelievers were what today would be considered "someone that shouldn't belong to a society" someone you don't want him living next to you.



Which version of "Truth" ?

Muhammeds obviously right?

I'm sure Jews, Christians, Hindus, "infidels" - Atheists etc etc etc have their own versions as well.



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 05:40 PM
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Originally posted by 0SolidSnake0
2. Sometimes force has to be used to maintain peace



George W Bush 2003...



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 05:41 PM
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Originally posted by moosevernel

Originally posted by 0SolidSnake0

so what if he fought battles ? Didn't Napoleon fight battles ? didn't Alexander the great fight battles ? and they are treated as huge history figures and heroes.


Yeh the difference being Napoleon and Alexander the great are not the figurehead and main prophet of the so called religion of peace are they?


War had had to be fought to establish peace. How can you teach people about peace while you are blockaded by their rulers.



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 05:41 PM
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This is all a bit off topic anyway is it not, the thread is about a super mosque.

Which i am against for all the reasons already posted in this thread.

And the fact of the matter is we live in a democracy and it seems the majority of people who live where this mosque is supposed to be built do not want it.

Therefore its a no brainer really isnt it..??



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 05:42 PM
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Islam translates from Arabic not as 'peace' but as "peace, purity, submission and obedience"

In the religious sense, Islam means submission to the will of God and obedience to His law. Link

Muslims like to tell us that Islam means peace but leave out the submission and obedience part.

Why would they do that I wonder?


Is the Super Mosque another step towards Islam proclaiming its dominance?


edit on 1-11-2012 by ollncasino because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 05:42 PM
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Originally posted by 0SolidSnake0

Originally posted by moosevernel

Originally posted by 0SolidSnake0

so what if he fought battles ? Didn't Napoleon fight battles ? didn't Alexander the great fight battles ? and they are treated as huge history figures and heroes.


Yeh the difference being Napoleon and Alexander the great are not the figurehead and main prophet of the so called religion of peace are they?


War had had to be fought to establish peace. How can you teach people about peace while you are blockaded by their rulers.


Teach peace through war..okay then that makes loads of sense.

How about they just let the other people live how they wanted, why did they have to try and teach them anything??



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 05:45 PM
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Originally posted by SLAYER69


Which version of "Truth" ?





The truth, not necessarily the "god" truth . the truth of how people were lied upon and manipulated by their rulers. Islam banned a lot of bad habits people used to have/do back then.



btw, I'm a fan of your "ancient civ" threads.



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 05:49 PM
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Originally posted by ollncasino


Why would they do that I wonder?


Is the Super Mosque another step towards Islam proclaiming its dominance?


edit on 1-11-2012 by ollncasino because: (no reason given)


when people say islam means piece , they are not saying what the word "islam" means. they are saying what the religion of islam is.
There is no reason not to state that the word islam mean : voluntary submission to God.
you can find it in all islam sources.



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 05:51 PM
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Originally posted by 0SolidSnake0

Originally posted by ollncasino


Why would they do that I wonder?


Is the Super Mosque another step towards Islam proclaiming its dominance?


edit on 1-11-2012 by ollncasino because: (no reason given)


when people say islam means piece , they are not saying what the word "islam" means. they are saying what the religion of islam is.
There is no reason not to state that the word islam mean : voluntary submission to God.
you can find it in all islam sources.


Voluntary submission to god that we have to teach people through war because they wont voluntarily submit..!!

How logical..!!



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 05:51 PM
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Originally posted by 0SolidSnake0
The truth, not necessarily the "god" truth . the truth of how people were lied upon and manipulated by their rulers. Islam banned a lot of bad habits people used to have/do back then.


No offense but someones perspective about being "Lied upon" is a very broad brush. Islam banning a lot of "Bad Habits" sounds very reminiscent of getting rid of "Undesirables" back then that didn't fit into his version of the "Truth"

Suffice it to say. It is well known that often in ME tea/smoke shops where only men get together and gossip, I mean, discuss all manner of [Mostly conspiratorial perspectives and opinions] the truth.

ETA : and the Crusades....

edit on 1-11-2012 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 05:56 PM
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Originally posted by moosevernel

Teach peace through war..okay then that makes loads of sense.

How about they just let the other people live how they wanted, why did they have to try and teach them anything??


You are unaware of how people used to live back then. Religions when they came, They spread light, moral values. banned bad habits. civilization back then was not like today. nonbelievers of back then are nothing like nonbelievers of today.

Plus , why are you yelling about something that happened more than a thousand years ago. Isn't that what America is doing today with democracy, and other policies. Spreading democracy by the sword ? or by airstrikes. It's the same thing, what you are saying that Muslims did to spread Islam back then . Is what is happening today to spread capitalism and democracy .



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 05:59 PM
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Originally posted by 0SolidSnake0
when people say islam means piece , they are not saying what the word "islam" means. they are saying what the religion of islam is.
There is no reason not to state that the word islam mean : voluntary submission to God.



I'm honestly convinced you believe everything you're posting. I'm also honestly shocked you cannot see the over the top rhetoric, irony and hypocrisy.

If someone insults you or your faith.

Kill them.

If someone is of no faith.

Fight, force them to convert or kill them

Then you attempt this...

Islam = voluntary submission to God.



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 06:05 PM
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reply to post by 0SolidSnake0
 

6. More than 80% non-Muslims in India

The Muslims ruled India for about a thousand years. If they wanted, they had the power of converting each and every non-Muslim of India to Islam. Today more than 80% of the population of India are non- Muslims. All these non-Muslim Indians are bearing witness today that Islam was not spread by the sword



Transplanted to Pakistan.....



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 06:06 PM
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Originally posted by 0SolidSnake0

Originally posted by moosevernel

Teach peace through war..okay then that makes loads of sense.

How about they just let the other people live how they wanted, why did they have to try and teach them anything??


You are unaware of how people used to live back then. Religions when they came, They spread light, moral values. banned bad habits. civilization back then was not like today. nonbelievers of back then are nothing like nonbelievers of today.

Plus , why are you yelling about something that happened more than a thousand years ago. Isn't that what America is doing today with democracy, and other policies. Spreading democracy by the sword ? or by airstrikes. It's the same thing, what you are saying that Muslims did to spread Islam back then . Is what is happening today to spread capitalism and democracy .


Please do not presume to tell me what i am unaware of. Regardless of the times there is no justification for them actions then as there is none now. Secondly im not even american and for the most part i believe the whole western world should just let the middle east get on with it, if the people in those countries want to live that way it is nobody elses business.

Look its all wrong at the end of the day no belief or system of governance should be forced on another peoples. But it is wrong to say that islam is a religion of peace when it clearly isnt and it is clear to anyone with a brain that this mosque is not about building somewhere for people to pray as there are clearly sufficient mosques in london for that purpose.

If islam really was the religion of peace then as others have pointed out surely more muslims would speak out against the atrocities planned and carried out by other muslims yet for the most part the muslim communities are silent.

But im not here to change your mind and i expect i could not if i tried.



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 06:28 PM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


The reason us British drew a line in the map of india and put all the muslims in pakistan is because they were constant trouble makers, and refuse to live with everyone else, and this is one of the reason for the inbread hatred of the British the pakistani have, to cut it short.



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 06:33 PM
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I'm not ant-Islamic by any means. People are people and people believe what they want. I just like to make observations and occasional criticism or praise.

But ye gods... Islam couldn't find a tougher foe than the UK.



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 06:33 PM
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Originally posted by TheMaverick
reply to post by SLAYER69
 


The reason us British drew a line in the map of india and put all the muslims in pakistan is because they were constant trouble makers, and refuse to live with everyone else, and this is one of the reason for the inbread hatred of the British the pakistani have, to cut it short.



Yes. And also Kashmir. From personal experience.



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 06:34 PM
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Originally posted by SLAYER69


If someone insults you or your faith.

Kill them.


When someone insults your religion. It means he does not accept you practicing that religion. therefore I will not accept him .
There is a big difference between pure bull# and obvious 100% propaganda ( like that stupid movie some exporn director did "innocence of islam" ) and Constructive criticism. When someone argue against Islam with constructive criticism . Nobody is killing him, or threatening him.
If someone was in front of you and insulted your mother, who is a very important person for you . in front of a lot of people. and he kept insulting after you asked him to stop. what would you do ? and how will you protect your dignity ?


Originally posted by SLAYER69

If someone is of no faith.

Fight, force them to convert or kill them


Do you see me fighting people with no faith ? do you see Muslims fighting people with no faith trying to convert them ?
"or kill them" where the hell did you get that from .


Originally posted by SLAYER69
Then you attempt this...

Islam = voluntary submission to God.


This is what the arabic word "islam" means. You can find it where ever you research it. you can also find it on wikipedia.



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 06:47 PM
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Originally posted by 0SolidSnake0
If someone was in front of you and insulted your mother, who is a very important person for you . in front of a lot of people. and he kept insulting after you asked him to stop. what would you do ? and how will you protect your dignity ?


Same thing that I have done before and same thing that I shall do again if ever the occasion arises: ignore them.

Sticks and stones.



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