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London MEGA Mosque o_O

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posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 04:22 PM
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What blinded to reality people fail to understand is that whilst Islam in itself may not be a threat to those who are not nor wish to be a muslim believer there are people from predominantly middle eastern or Asian background who use Islamic belief and importantly Islamic culture in order to gain power over other people of their own cultural backgrounds.
When this transforms a nation such as Britain into a place that would have been unthinkable only a few decades ago then it is reasonable to ask is it morally right to transform a Christiaan valued nation such as Britain into a nation that has millions of Muslims being controlled by local muftis and clergy who use Islamic law and values to control their underlings?
I doubt that there would be many Britons in the sixties who would have in a referendum voted to allow mass muslim immigration into Britain.
But they never got that choice now London isn't even recognisable in places as a western nation.

But this is all lawful so fair enough traitors followed the letter of the law and introduced laws to silence those who were opposed to mass Islamic immigration into Britain.

Now the children of the immigrants are British born with values and culture different in some areas to what we would want for our western children ie womens rights honour killings jihads ect ect.

No doubt many muslim people do not care much for radical Islam but sometimes they are pressured into shunning western values and culture...and adopting radical practises.

As far as a Mega mosque is concerned ..it is too late to whine about it...Britain is changed forever...without losing WW2 we lost our identity...but that is reality and britons will adapt and evolve and hopefully Islam christianity...Athiesm...Judaism...Buddhism...Hinduism can evolve similarly.

Cultural impact is real but life is short better to accept and love than let pride cause one to hate..




posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 04:29 PM
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reply to post by KilgoreTrout
 





Ridiculous argument. A gang of men, who happen to be Muslim, grooming 'kids'


It's not a ridiculous argument though is it, with muslims as only 3% of the british population and 24% of young sex crimes are from pakistani asians how is it ridiculous argument from glen200376 , he was merely stating a fact, do the maths it's shocking figures and clearly culturally accepted by pakistani muslims.

Now this is the problem, good muslims keeping quiet and not saying anything, pretending this stuff is not happening, were are all the good muslim at, why are they not up in arms to these sort of crimes from there fellow muslims, why are they not up in arms protesting in the streets when all these apparently fringe muslims are calling for everyone and there uncle to be beheaded.
I don't see them ?

Sorry if my post bothers you, but i'm saying what others don't for fear of being a racist when merely pointing out facts, the liberalist approach to this is not working.



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 04:35 PM
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Originally posted by 0SolidSnake0

Could the difference be Islam itself? thats why the real owners of this country and the shadow governments and mainstream media Keep feeding you bull# about islam and spreading lies about it all over the place.


Could you have a word with these chaps and explain to them that Islam is a religion of peace?





I certainly wouldn't want that type meeting in the super mosque.



edit on 1-11-2012 by ollncasino because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 04:39 PM
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Originally posted by 0SolidSnake0
Maybe if you stop looking threads and sites that spread lies, the hate against Muslims. and try to verify what they say, then you'll know the meaning


Indeed.



Clearly Islam is a religion of peace...

...and it clearly is Islamophobia to judge Islam by what Muslims do.


Who are we to object to a Super Mosque?

It's not as if Islam has proven itself to be a violent, aggressive and intolerant belief system that engages in violence to dominate non-Muslims...




edit on 1-11-2012 by ollncasino because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 04:43 PM
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Originally posted by TheMaverick
reply to post by KilgoreTrout
 





Ridiculous argument. A gang of men, who happen to be Muslim, grooming 'kids'


It's not a ridiculous argument though is it, with muslims as only 3% of the british population and 24% of young sex crimes are from pakistani asians how is it ridiculous argument from glen200376 , he was merely stating a fact, do the maths it's shocking figures and clearly culturally accepted by pakistani muslims.

Now this is the problem, good muslims keeping quiet and not saying anything, pretending this stuff is not happening, were are all the good muslim at, why are they not up in arms to these sort of crimes from there fellow muslims, why are they not up in arms protesting in the streets when all these apparently fringe muslims are calling for everyone and there uncle to be beheaded.
I don't see them ?

Sorry if my post bothers you, but i'm saying what others don't for fear of being a racist when merely pointing out facts, the liberalist approach to this is not working.



Your post doesn't bother me at all, but I do wonder at the basis for your argument and the source of those statistics. That said, it wouldn't surprise me either. Certainly some Muslim organisations do promote a gender superiority that is having an adverse affect on the way women are percieved, much of that perception is supported by female muslims too it has to be said. Muslim women are for marriage, and the non-Muslim women are indecent and deserve the treatment that they get. However, I do not see that attitude as being exclusively Muslim. There are many groups that promote the objectification of women, and that in many ways plays right into the hands of fundamentalist perceptions across the board.

Anyway, look at this way, as an Asian you are more likely to be stopped and questioned than if you were a white youth...therefore, you are more likely to be caught committing an offence. Statistics only report arrests and convictions, not actual crimes committed.



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 04:43 PM
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Originally posted by ollncasino


I see Islamophobia everywhere.

What really must die is the hate , if we all accepted each other believes we wont have any kind of fight , each to his own believe , then god or nature judge us for what we choose.


Perhaps you explain to us why since 9/11 Muslims in the USA have tried to





I would like to rephrase your question, maybe then you can answer it yourself to:
Explain why since USA launched wars on Afghanistan and Iraq and killed and destroyed the homes of ten of thousands. and destroyed their lives. People who happens to be muslim want to commit "terrorist acts" ?

So just becasue they were muslims, you call them muslims? What about the guy in colorado shooting. Why don't you categorize him too ? because he's not muslim. If he was muslim. I assure you, uneducated ignorant people,including you and many others will be going nuts all over the place.

Put yourself in an afghany/iraqi citizen's shoes. The american wars have destroyed his life, his future, his home. Killed his parents, his family is gone. Nothing is left . what would he do ? (his religion don't matter at this point, specially if you didn't believe in god,or religion, which mean you have no set of morals, no set of rules to go by, all you want is revenge, while there's nothing left in your life)



I can't tell you about their "religious believes " in that moment where they plan on bombing some place. But i can tell you this.
Muslims are against what ,people like them are doing. ISLAM is not his religion, as he does not follow it. Killing innocents noncombatants citizens is forbidden.



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 04:47 PM
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Originally posted by 0SolidSnake0

Muslims are against what ,people like them are doing. ISLAM is not his religion, as he does not follow it. Killing innocents noncombatants citizens is forbidden.


Are you aware that Muhammad ordered people burnt to death for not praying?


Bukhari (11:626)

- "The Prophet said, 'No prayer is harder for the hypocrites than the Fajr and the 'Isha' prayers and if they knew the reward for these prayers at their respective times, they would certainly present themselves (in the mosques) even if they had to crawl.' The Prophet added, 'Certainly I decided to order the Mu'adh-dhin (call-maker) to pronounce Iqama and order a man to lead the prayer and then take a fire flame to burn all those who had not left their houses so far for the prayer along with their houses.'"

Muhammad orders his men to burn alive those who do not present themselves at the mosque for prayer.

www.quranexplorer.com...


Ṣaḥīḥ al-Bukhārī (Arabic: صحيح البخاري‎), is one of the six canonical hadith collections (Al-Kutub Al-Sittah) of Sunni Islam.

Sunni Muslims view this as one of the three most trusted collections of hadith along with Sahih Muslim and al-Muwatta In some circles, it is considered the most authentic book after the Qur'an. The Arabic word sahih translates as authentic or correct

Sahih al-Bukhari

Islam. Not quite as peaceful as Muslims would like you to believe.




edit on 1-11-2012 by ollncasino because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 04:54 PM
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Originally posted by ollncasino


Could you have a word with these chaps and explain to them that Islam is a religion of peace?




edit on 1-11-2012 by ollncasino because: (no reason given)


I would love to.
Religion is not the reason he is acting this way. Anger is.
I would hold a sign that says : behead those who insult my mother.
if someone comes to your face and started talking # in front of a lot of people about your mother , who is very a important person in your life. what would you do ? take it and screw your dignity ? this is the situation here, he is not going around killing "innocent people" or planing terrorist attack. he i basically calling out the people who insulted his religion.
Put any person in his place any person of any religion or "the mother example" . If you don't defend your religion when its insulted then your faith is weak.



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 04:56 PM
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Originally posted by 0SolidSnake0

So just becasue they were muslims, you call them muslims?


Muhammad used violence, terror and assassination as tools to spread Islam. Did he just happen to be a Muslim as well?

In the space of a single decade Muhammad


• Fought 8 major battles,
• Led 18 raids,
• Planned another 38 military operations where others were in command but operating under his orders and strategic direction.

HistoryNet


Major battles were exactly that.


• At Kheibar in 628 C.E., the Muslim army was 2,000 combatants.
• When Muhammad mounted his assault on Mecca (630 C.E.) he did so with 10,000 men.
• And at the Battle of Hunayn a few months later the army numbered 12,000.

Source: Islamic Imperialism: A History by Karsh, E. (2007)



Muhammad used terror in two basic ways.

First, to keep discipline among his followers by making public examples of traitors or backsliders. It is sometimes forgotten that in Muhammad’s day the penalty for apostasy in Islam was death.

Muhammad also ordered the assassination of some of his political enemies, including poets and singers who had publicly ridiculed him.

Never one to forget a slight, when his armies marched into Mecca Muhammad’s suffah set about hunting down a list of old enemies marked for execution.

HistoryNet



Islam. Not quite as peaceful as Muslims would like you to believe.



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 04:59 PM
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Originally posted by ollncasino


Are you aware that Muhammad ordered people burnt to death for not praying?





Not true. Muhammed never ordered for any kind of people to be burned alive. haha
its a misinterpretation.

the Prophet has used the word "هممت" like saying "I almost did" or "I felt like doing", which makes the Hadith to mean "I felt like ordering wood to be collected and the homes of those who did not show up for prayer to be burned".

His purpose of this hadith was to emphasize the importance of Joining the prayers with others in the mosque, and does not mean that he ordered their homes to be burned, nor did he do it himself.



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 05:02 PM
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How well known is it that Pakistan was invaded by the ottoman Islamic empire and millions upon millions of Indians were forcebly converted to Islam?
That is why Pakistan exists today and there are almost two hundred million muslims in India and hundreds of millions of muslims in Indonesia Malaysia. Burma.

Islam is an imperialistic predatory religion that power hungry individuals manipulate to gain more power and influence.

Just like some christian churches...but we have evolved from the priests controlling our very lives but Muslims hand over their lives to the Mosques they dare not offend the mosques bosses.
We have in fact medievel belief spreading acrosss the west fundamentalist thinking so much for progress.



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 05:08 PM
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Originally posted by 0SolidSnake0

Not true. Muhammed never ordered for any kind of people to be burned alive. haha
its a misinterpretation.

the Prophet has used the word "هممت" like saying "I almost did" or "I felt like doing", which makes the Hadith to mean "I felt like ordering wood to be collected and the homes of those who did not show up for prayer to be burned".

His purpose of this hadith was to emphasize the importance of Joining the prayers with others in the mosque, and does not mean that he ordered their homes to be burned, nor did he do it himself.


I am afraid that the Hadith is a canonical one and it clearly states that Muhammad ordered people burnt to death for not praying. I provided a link.

I will repeat it here

www.quranexplorer.com...

www.quranexplorer.com...

If you don't like that translation, try this one

getintoislam.com...

or this one

www.sacred-texts.com...

or this one

www.yanabi.com...

Muhammad ordered people burnt to death for not praying.

According to the Koran and Hadith, Muhammad


• Pronounced death for leaving Islam, Hadith Sahih Bukhari, Book 83 Volume 9, Number 17

• Told followers that Jihad was the second highest thing after believing in Allah, Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 2, number 25

• Stated he would fight until everyone admitted their was only one god, Allah, Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 2, number 24

Burnt people for not praying Sahih Bukhari Book 1, Vol 11, Verse 626

Forced non Muslims to be humbled, submit to Islam and pay jizyah tax.Koran Book 9 Verse 29


If Muhammad pronounced death for leaving Islam, told followers to engage in Jihad, stated he would fight until everyone acknowledged Islam, burnt people for not praying and forced non Muslims to submit to Islam and be humbled, in what sense is Islam a religion of peace?

Islam. Not quite as peaceful as Muslims would like you to believe.



edit on 1-11-2012 by ollncasino because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 05:12 PM
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Originally posted by ollncasino


Muhammad used violence, terror and assassination as tools to spread Islam. Did he just happen to be a Muslim as well?




what if he fought battles ? Didn't Napoleon fight battles ? didn't Alexander the great fight battles ? and they are treated as huge history figures and heroes.
Muslims were blockaded and fought because they worshiped one god. They had to fight the statues worshipers . It was an ongoing war between muslims and the people who worshiped statues. I studied the history of islam. Nothing they did was because of wanting to be superior. They destroyed and fought their enemies, destroyed their political leaders, who used to lie and loot people with their "statues worshiping" They left for the people the freedom to worship what they want, adn live their lives. As long as they pay taxes for the government. A lot of these people ended up joining islam. NOT forcefully. Because they believed the message, the humanity that was in it. Islam banned slavery, Banned the Burial of newborn girls, which was common at the time. banned looting, banned racism.
edit on 1-11-2012 by 0SolidSnake0 because: fix

edit on 1-11-2012 by 0SolidSnake0 because: edit



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 05:21 PM
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Originally posted by 0SolidSnake0

So what if he fought battles ? Didn't Napoleon fight battles ? didn't Alexander the great fight battles ? and they are treated as huge history figures and heroes.


Indeed Muhammad did fight many battles and spread Islam by the sword.

What is more disturbing is that Allah, in the Koran, gave Muhammad's soldiers permission to rape women captured in battle.


And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess. It is a decree of Allah for you. Lawful unto you are all beyond those mentioned, so that ye seek them with your wealth in honest wedlock, not debauchery. And those of whom ye seek content (by marrying them), give unto them their portions as a duty. And there is no sin for you in what ye do by mutual agreement after the duty (hath been done). Lo! Allah is ever Knower, Wise.

Koran


The meaning of this verse is revealed in the Hadith


Abu Sa'id al-Khudri (Allah be pleased with him) reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) sent a small army. The rest of the hadith is the same except this that he said: Except what your right hands possessout of them are lawful for you; and he did not mention" when their 'idda period comes to an end". This hadith has been reported on the authority of AbuSa'id (al-Khudri) (Allah be pleased with him) through another chain of transmitters and the words are: They took captives (women) on the day of Autas who had their husbands. They were afraid (to have sexual intercourse with them) when this verse was revealed:" And women already married except those whom you right hands posses"

Hadith Muslim 8:3433


Allah gives Muhammad's men permission to rape women taken captive in battle.


Islam. Not quite as peaceful as Muslims would like you to believe.



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 05:22 PM
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Says it all to me.



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 05:23 PM
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Originally posted by 0SolidSnake0
So what if he fought battles ? Didn't Napoleon fight battles


You asked a question.
He not only answered it but proved his point then you reply with

"So what"..


Classic.



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 05:24 PM
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Originally posted by ollncasino


I am afraid that the Hadith is a canonical one and it clearly states that Muhammad ordered people burnt to death for not praying. I provided a link.



edit on 1-11-2012 by ollncasino because: (no reason given)


This whole thing you just posted prove you are close minded. You are thinking about something from one side only.
First Muhammed never ordered to burn anyone, that's god's job.. The hadith is in arabic and i explained what it means, i don't think i have to explain again .
Muhammed said : he would fight till people acknowledge the truth.
I don't see anything wrong with that. You don't know how people used to live back then .chaos.. You are taking theses sayings which are what muhamed said back then, and interpreting them as teachings to muslims of today . Back then the people who worshiped statues or nonbelievers were what today would be considered "someone that shouldn't belong to a society" someone you don't want him living next to you.



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 05:28 PM
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Originally posted by 0SolidSnake0
Put any person in his place any person of any religion or "the mother example" . If you don't defend your religion when its insulted then your faith is weak.


Actually, given:

‘Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
(Matthew 5:11-12)


But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you
(Matthew 5:44)


For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
(Matthew 6:14)

I would say if Christians did not defend their religion by simply turning the other cheek and ignoring insults, or politely posting passages from the book of Matthew on online forums, that their faith would not be weak at all but rather the opposite.



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 05:30 PM
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Originally posted by 0SolidSnake0

Muhammed said : he would fight till people acknowledge the truth.

I don't see anything wrong with that.


Clearly you do not.

I am also aware that in Muslim countries I would, at the least, be imprisoned for my criticism of Islam.

I don't imagine you have a problem with that either.


Consequently, I have a problem with the Super Mosque.


The military conquests of Muhammad and his immediate successors


edit on 1-11-2012 by ollncasino because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 05:35 PM
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Originally posted by 0SolidSnake0

so what if he fought battles ? Didn't Napoleon fight battles ? didn't Alexander the great fight battles ? and they are treated as huge history figures and heroes.


Yeh the difference being Napoleon and Alexander the great are not the figurehead and main prophet of the so called religion of peace are they?



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