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London MEGA Mosque o_O

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posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 07:13 AM
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reply to post by TheMaverick
 



Originally posted by TheMaverick

If you and the other guy in this thread who are so supportive of this tablighi jamaat religious political movement, then go live in Saudi Arabia or Iran were they have sharīʿah, and lets see how long you last living with western freedoms you take for granted under them states.


Discussion is about a meeting of opinions. By replying like this, i am afraid you are losing credibility for me in this particular thread. I would expect more from a member that has Military Intelligence as part of their avatar.

Opposition based on the group behind the plans is a position i can understand. Opposition based on it being a mega mosque is not something i can understand. There are people on this thread who fall into both of those camps.




posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 07:14 AM
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reply to post by stumason
 


Thanks, I think I understand the position a bit better now. Almost missed this post altogether. I can't say I am in agreement with the position, but I do think I am getting the picture better.



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 07:18 AM
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reply to post by khimbar
 


Was never my intention to change any minds, only trying to understand better. Sometimes true intentions are not always as they seem. From what I can tell here in this thread, you do not seem to be an unreasonable person.



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 07:37 AM
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reply to post by Flavian
 





Discussion is about a meeting of opinions. By replying like this, i am afraid you are losing credibility for me in this particular thread. I would expect more from a member that has Military Intelligence as part of their avatar.

Opposition based on the group behind the plans is a position i can understand. Opposition based on it being a mega mosque is not something i can understand. There are people on this thread who fall into both of those camps.


I have stated quite clearly i feel, from the start, its the political movement tablighi jamaat who are the funders for this mega mosque that i strongly oppose, don't twist my words, tablighi jamaat are a muslim fundamentalist sects, and even the local muslims here in my part of london oppose this organization.

Now for a start right next door to this supposed mega Mosque is a massive jewish cemetery, that alone will cause tension and problems by itself, the tablighi jamaat are oppose to the whole western way of life, but yet want to set up a mega mosque smack bang in the middle of london, now if you can't see what trying to be achieved here with this political agenda, by this fundamental group, then i'm sorry but our conversation has ended.

For the last time, Tablighi Jamaat is a religious political movement, who preach hate..



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 07:58 AM
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Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by khimbar
 


Was never my intention to change any minds, only trying to understand better. Sometimes true intentions are not always as they seem. From what I can tell here in this thread, you do not seem to be an unreasonable person.


I didn't mean to imply you did, sorry if you took offence.

I am not. Sometimes.


I'm still thinking about your point, the one being if I do object to them scoring a cheap political point and raising a mosque shaped middle finger, am I somehow infringing on their freedom of expression rights to do so.

I'm trying to ignore the Tablighi Jamaat connection as best I can as that is colouring my opinions too much, but I'm finding that difficult, which I guess makes me intolerant. But then everyone is, to a degree.


edit on 1-11-2012 by khimbar because: (no reason given)

edit on 1-11-2012 by khimbar because: (no reason given)

edit on 1-11-2012 by khimbar because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 08:12 AM
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reply to post by khimbar
 





I'm still thinking about your point, the one being if I do object to them scoring a cheap political point and raising a mosque shaped middle finger, am I somehow infringing on their freedom of expression rights to do so.


Quite often in life, people abuse and take advantage from another's good nature and intentions, and this is a prime example, opposing this is not infringing on their freedom of expression, it's saying enough is enough, and you will not take advantage of our free society for political gains and agenda's.

Sometimes you have to put your foot down.

Lets say we give the green light for this build, now once it's built, they impose sharīʿah to this mosque as they make no secret about. this means by giving them freedom of expression, we take away our freedom of expression, it's just complete madness...



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 08:16 AM
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Originally posted by TheMaverick
reply to post by khimbar
 





I'm still thinking about your point, the one being if I do object to them scoring a cheap political point and raising a mosque shaped middle finger, am I somehow infringing on their freedom of expression rights to do so.


Quite often in life, people abuse and take advantage from another's good nature and intentions, and this is a prime example, opposing this is not infringing on their freedom of expression, it's saying enough is enough, and you will not take advantage of our free society for political gains and agenda's.

Sometimes you have to put your foot down.

Lets say we give the green light for this build, now once it's built, they impose sharīʿah to this mosque as they make no secret about. this means by giving them freedom of expression, we take away our freedom of expression, it's just complete madness...


I agree. It might not be politic or popular but I agree.




posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 08:19 AM
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reply to post by khimbar
 


No offense taken, it's not an easy task to offend me. It's not easy communicating properly on a forum though, I do my best. In person we have cues often taken for granted, that tell us more than the words themselves in some cases. Such as expression, hand gestures, tone of voice. Stuff most people don't consciously notice at all



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 08:30 AM
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My understanding is that the laws of the land would have to be changed for Shari'ah to be introduced.

I must be missing something glaringly obvious. I do not see how shari'ah law could be introduced because a mega mosque is built.



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 08:45 AM
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reply to post by Flavian
 



A muslim once explained to me, that their "laws" only apply to muslims that agree to be bound by them. Like a contractual agreement.

Jews have a similar "law system" amongst themselves as well.



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 08:48 AM
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Originally posted by Sinny

Sharia Law worries me.

Yes, I'm against the build.


edit on 31-10-2012 by Sinny because: (no reason given)

Why does sharia law worry you? If you don't like it don't be a muslim and don't live in a muslim dominated country where sharia law is statute. There is no way in hell sharia law will ever be part of English-Wales or scottish law. All this is is a scare tactic by the racists.

On the other side of the coin. Our rights as citizens of the UK should be upheld by the law (police, courts etc) when we take photographs of buildings from public streets. If that means a mosque then tough sh.t the muslims need to deal with it or not build a mosque in such areas.

I'm all for antagonisjng the extremists until they realise they should go to whatever pathetic area of the world shares their hate OR they live by the laws and customs of the country they have adopted.

we have intolerance on both sides.



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 08:54 AM
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reply to post by Flavian
 


In 1996, Parliament passed the arbitration act setting out rules under which parties in a dispute have the right to go to an impartial tribunal to get justice without expensive litigation.

Muslims lawyers interpreted this as meaning that sharīʿah courts could act as arbitration panels under the act, they began in 2007, and their decisions are legally binding.

Jewish beth din courts have operated in the UK for centuries, used mainly by orthodox jews, and are recognised under the 1996 act, just another example of how this works in the UK.

Both parties in a case have to be Jews, and have to agree to have their cases heard by the beth din court.

The problem and big different's is sharīʿah justice goes against our western interpretation of justice.


Edit to Add: when i said a few posts back that to those who support tablighi jamaat islamic vaules, i was referring to polarwarrior post, not you, just had to clear that up.
edit on 1-11-2012 by TheMaverick because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 09:07 AM
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reply to post by TheMaverick
 


Interesting extra information, thank you very much.

As this governs arbitration though, surely these are only legally binding for those that have already agreed to comply by Shari'ah law. By this i mean that if a muslim tries to implement it on non muslims, it would not be legal or acceptable?

The legalities do become a minefield. A school in Bradford i used to teach in had a huge majority of Muslim students that also went to one of the mosques every evening. The Imam at that particular mosque was very hardline old school and if the children misbehaved they were beaten with sticks (parents had to sign contracts agreeing to this before their children were allowed to attend). It was argued that this was legal as the parents had signed contracts concerning the code of behaviour and the punishments that would result from infractions of this code. It still didn't stop the Imam being arrested and charged for child abuse though (much to the relief of many of the kids in the school).

In that case, even though the parents had signed contracts agreeing to hardline Islamic law, the legal system in this country over ruled it.



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 09:32 AM
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reply to post by Flavian
 


Jewish beth din courts still respect british law, but tablighi jamaat muslims make no bones about the fact, they only answer to god, and have no respect for our british laws or any other laws on this planet for that matter, even though we bend over backwards to accommodate these peoples.

The biggest problem with sharīʿah is women and children have no say or respect in this matter, and there are so many case's in the UK of child abuse, via violence, murder, under age sex, and marriages all condoned under sharīʿah, and is hidden in these mosques and there communities.

allowing this mega mosque to operate with tablighi jamaat idology of sharīʿah, will be detrimental to the muslim women and children of london and the UK who have no voice, as i've said before its a stone age political religious movement, who's interpretation of the quran is warped and doesn't fit 21st century vaules of freedom.



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 10:53 AM
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However - having said that, a lot of our Muslim friends seem hell bent on converting/infiltrating/sabotaging the UK.
reply to post by Sinny
 
personal fear is not an evidence.


On a side note - I'd much prefer being surrounded by thousands of Chinese people instead of people who would stone me/ gang rape me/ chop off my hands because I'm wearing something "to revealing".

again...


The Muslim religion is still 2 centuries behind our western culture, so unless they want to embrass it - I see no need for them to be here.
get real.
what western culture???? i think you westerners would shame the most primitive of humans.



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 11:46 AM
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Right on plan, for the muslim domination of europe, don't worry they are working their plan quite well in the USA



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 11:58 AM
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Originally posted by deepankarm
what western culture???? i think you westerners would shame the most primitive of humans.


And here in lies the problem..

This is not the first time that people have made a claim there is no culture of our own. Even politicians (of the left persuasion) have dismissed "British culture" as simply getting pissed and watching football.

I actually find it quite offensive people can be so dismissive about our culture. It is actually rooted in over 1,500 (if not more) years of history. Dismissing it out of hand is as racist as saying you don't want to live near brown people.



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 11:59 AM
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Originally posted by Sinny

Originally posted by DocHolidaze
reply to post by Sinny
 


if people want to believe in whatever some dude wrote down along time ago that's there bad, does it effect you personally, cause from the tone of ur post it seems like u dont agree with a worship building being placed in London?


The fact the plans are have been progressing since 1999 and haven't been scrapped is rather telling - I think.

Sharia Law worries me.

Yes, I'm against the build.




edit on 31-10-2012 by Sinny because: (no reason given)


Hi sinny,

Just wondering do other laws worry you as well?

How much do you know of Sharia law?

Are you also against building schools, sports stadiums etc?



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 12:15 PM
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reply to post by InhaleExhale
 


I gladly take you on, in a discussion about sharīʿah, which translates as law because you clearly didn't know, as you put.


Sharia law?

What would you like to dispute with me, the religious political socially oppressive sharīʿah interpretation preached by the radicals who want to build this mosque, or a moderate interpretation of sharīʿah ?



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 12:23 PM
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Originally posted by TKDRL
You can cherrypick the bible the same way, are you also against their churches being built?


When the Koran is clear, Muslims must take it literally.

When the Koran tells Muslims that they must fight those who don't believe in Allah until they give jizyah tax willingly and are humbled, that is exactly what it means.

Why do you think Islam produces so many violent radicals?


Koran 9:29

Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.

Koran


By the way, the whole Sura is Here so you can see that it hasn't been taken out of context. The above passage from the Koran means exactly what it says.

When the Koran states that non Muslims are Allah's enemy, are not to be taken as friends and are not to be trusted, again that must be taken literally. So must the statement that Allah has prepared a terrible doom for any Muslim who is friends with a non-Muslim. The Koran is clear and it must be taken literally.


60:1 Don't be friends with disbelievers. They are your (and Allah's) enemy.

63:4 Disbelievers are perverted. They are the enemy, confounded by Allah.

58:14-15 If a Muslim is friends with a non-Muslim, Allah has prepared a terrible doom.

5:80 Muslims that make friends with disbelievers will face a doom prepared for them by Allah.

53:29 Stay away from non-Muslims, especially those who disbelieve in the afterlife.

4:144 Do not choose disbelievers as friends.

5:51 Don't take Jews or Christians for friends. If you do, then Allah will consider you to be one of them.

33:48 Non Muslims and their poisonous talk is to be ignored

9:107 Stay away from non-Muslims. They are all liars.

3:73 Don't believe anyone who is not a Muslim.

5:45 Non-Muslims are wrong doers.

59:11 The disbelieving people of the Scripture are liars.

skepticsannotatedbible.com...



edit on 1-11-2012 by ollncasino because: (no reason given)




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