Scientists offer quantum theory of soul's existence

I'm sorry, but they lost me at quantum science.

Quantum science? More like quantum mysticism.

The problem I see here, and with a lot of other quackery, is that quantum mechanics is an incredibly confusing, weird, and all around difficult field to understand. Therefore, because most laymen can't really get a grip on the tenets of it, quantum physics gets turned into a sort of pseudomagic that attempts to pass itself as a scientific explanation for the extraordinary and supernatural. Anytime I see somebody claim they've found a 'quantum reason' for God/the soul/ghosts/other dimensions/the dragon in my garage...my eyes glaze over.

With that being said, it's not like I could give you a thoughtful and in-depth rundown of QM theories, but at least I have the sense to realize that anybody peddling a 'quantum explanation for [mystical idea]' is preying on people's lack of understanding. I kind of wish we had a poster here with a realistic, working understanding of quantum physics that could post rebuttals to this sort of thing.

Basically, meh, I'll pass, sorry. People believe in the soul and life after death because humans are magical thinkers and they want to believe it, not because it actually exists.

reply to post by Dark Ghost


Has anyone ever considered our brain to be a receiver like a radio? Maybe the instrument that God created
to manifest our awareness to us while connected to this ( as we know it ) phyical relm..
When we die just the receiver is gone but not the signal.

First one would have to have a complete understanding of quantum physics to
make claims like these scientists have. Oh thats right - you can't understand
quantum physics.

Where is the proof again?

The study of conscienceness and quantum mechanics will eventually bring us to the very real possibility of immortality. The development of a quantum computer may make the post-human era a reality.

reply to post by Vandettas


Understanding is a human concept. You don't have to understand QuantumElectroDynamics to make predictions on photon/electron interactions. Physicists no longer worry themselves with the rationality of QM, atleast most of them. They have the moto, "shut up and calculate"

Weres the proof of Quantum Mechanics?
The computer your using, perfect example.

Originally posted by Sink the Bismarck!
I'm sorry, but they lost me at quantum science.

Quantum science? More like quantum mysticism.

The problem I see here, and with a lot of other quackery, is that quantum mechanics is an incredibly confusing, weird, and all around difficult field to understand. Therefore, because most laymen can't really get a grip on the tenets of it, quantum physics gets turned into a sort of pseudomagic that attempts to pass itself as a scientific explanation for the extraordinary and supernatural. Anytime I see somebody claim they've found a 'quantum reason' for God/the soul/ghosts/other dimensions/the dragon in my garage...my eyes glaze over.

With that being said, it's not like I could give you a thoughtful and in-depth rundown of QM theories, but at least I have the sense to realize that anybody peddling a 'quantum explanation for [mystical idea]' is preying on people's lack of understanding. I kind of wish we had a poster here with a realistic, working understanding of quantum physics that could post rebuttals to this sort of thing.

That ladies and gentleman is the god damn post of the YEAR.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Some aren't as well versed in metaphysics as others sadly.

I've always wondered what exactly consciousness was. This is really cool!

Spiritual people have been saying this all along, its not a break through thing.. obviously the vessel of the Spirit incarnating into it; must have a phsyical functioning system that the spirit can "live" inside to operate that body vessel.. this is how we as spirits experience this physical reality we call "Life"

~ Love is an art

reply to post by Dark Ghost


I came up with this idea years ago, lol. Wrote a thesis paper on consciousness and the "soul".

I'm glad to see humanity is catching up to me. You're making progress.

Originally posted by ubeenhad
reply to post by Vandettas

 

Understanding is a human concept. You don't have to understand QuantumElectroDynamics to make predictions on photon/electron interactions. Physicists no longer worry themselves with the rationality of QM, atleast most of them. They have the moto, "shut up and calculate"

Weres the proof of Quantum Mechanics?
The computer your using, perfect example.

edit on 31-10-2012 by ubeenhad because: (no reason given)

Their not predicting anything though.

Quantum Mechanics has something to do with desktop computers? How?

S+F ... And a Star & Flag to the professors, Something I learned a while back. A State changing experience... Literally Question is how does the process of returning work (reincarnation) is it random or are we bound by Gravitons.... or a quantum signature given off by the host in some way(Round Peg, Round Hole) and then there's residual memories. Throws up a lot of questions.

Cool post I look forward to reading more from these two.

Originally posted by Dark Ghost

Scientists offer quantum theory of soul's existence

www.news.com.au

A PAIR of world-renowned quantum scientists say they can prove the existence of the soul.

American Dr Stuart Hameroff and British physicist Sir Roger Penrose developed a quantum theory of consciousness asserting that our souls are contained inside structures called microtubules which live within our brain cells.

Their idea stems from the notion of the brain as a biological computer, "with 100 billion neurons and their axonal firings and synaptic connections acting as information networks".

Dr Hameroff, Professor Emeritus at the Departments of Anesthesiology and Psychology and Director of the Centre of Consciousness Studies at the University of Arizona, and Sir Roger have been working on the theory since 1996.

They argue that our experience of consciousness is the result of quantum gravity effects inside these microtubules - a process they call orchestrated objective reduction (Orch-OR).

In a near-death experience the microtubules lose their quantum state, but the information within them is not destroyed. Or in layman's terms, the soul does not die but returns to the universe.

edit on 31/10/2012 by Dark Ghost because: formatting

Orchestrated objective reduction. That this process exists within these tubules micro or otherwise, is important. The extent to which these processes depend on the tubules for their existence is important. Something even more important is where and how do these processes exist when the microtubules and the physicality of which it was a part, no longer exists?

I don't know the answer to all this stuff and I don't think anybody does. I believe if indeed there is a game, a continuation of sorts, then being in the alive state precludes us knowing. It truly appears to be a period of unknowing, and not for lack of trying to know.

One thing I do know is that we are rather stuck in this immediate experience of being alive. and contrary to astral projection, out of body,near death, and assorted other extraordinary experiences, there is no real demonstration to say there is any continuation at all of any orchestrated objective reduction. outside and beyond the physical cohesion of our living being.

When I was younger I had a girl friend who was kind of spiritual. I would ask her what happens after you die? She would say, what ever you want to happen. I should have asked her, does anything happen after you die? It's more basic.

This article has Nothing to do with the SOUL. It only has to do with Consciousness. If they believe the soul resides in brain cells then that soul Must die as the brain dies. Thats not the same as a soul. These guys ate just using that term to sensationalize their findings.

This is very misleading and harmful to many peoples beliefs world wide. If people believe their immortal eternal soul is simply going to die with the consciousness because of these scientists, then they (the scientists) are actually denying the existence of the soul as we think of it. These would be Anti Soul scientists working for an agenda to wipe out all religion.

They would have to theorize these microtubules live on after the brain dies and continue to contain consciousness. Their theory doesn't touch this aspect.

I can hear atheists all over the world screaming NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

Originally posted by Sink the Bismarck!

With that being said, it's not like I could give you a thoughtful and in-depth rundown of QM theories, but at least I have the sense to realize that anybody peddling a 'quantum explanation for [mystical idea]' is preying on people's lack of understanding. I kind of wish we had a poster here with a realistic, working understanding of quantum physics that could post rebuttals to this sort of thing.

Basically, meh, I'll pass, sorry. People believe in the soul and life after death because humans are magical thinkers and they want to believe it, not because it actually exists.

It's too deep for me but here you go.
integral-options.blogspot.com...
www.csicop.org...

In a 1999 paper, physicist max Tegmark looked at the problem of quantum coherence in the brain and determined that the decoherence timescales would be ten or more orders of magnitude shorter than the timescales for an event in the brain. The brain is simply too large and too hot to be a quantum device, coherent or not.

Isn't this old news in a way? It's Eastern Mysticism, it's been described in our scriptures, David Icke talks about it, Baird T. Spalding discussed it at length, Noetic Physicists have been studying it. For me, the problem is with language. Religions have words to describe it and scientists are developing a language to describe it. But the English language just doesn't seem to have the capacity at this point to fully explain something that is so far outside of our commonly held belief system.

reply to post by Vandettas


An easy example is the computer screen your looking at.
www.ehow.com...

Quick hints. Look for the word polarized.
Now check out los almos's quantum institute has to say.
www.lanl.gov...

And yes, thats all QM does is make predictions!

Originally posted by Just Chris
This is extremely interesting news and probably the best explanation we have surrounding our SOUL.

I think they're spot on with their findings.

yes, righteo, now that I've read this one article describing this "theory" I can say without equivocation that it is absolutely correct, despite my complete lack of understanding.

Isn't ATS fun?!

I got a degree in physics because I wanted to understand the universe. Eventually, I became disillusioned when I realized that physicists don't really understand anything. They only make logical models of what they think reality is. Then I started meditating and having out of body experiences, and realized that consciousness makes the physical world, not the other way around. And that's the problem I have with these physical theories. They seem to get very close to putting physical reality and mysticism together, but they still start with the idea that reality is the physical world. How did the physical world come to be? Isn't it the most mind-boggling thing to assume that consciousness is a derivative of something we could not possibly explain? To me, it makes infinitely more sense to think that the thought comes first, then the manifestation of the thought comes afterwards.

The one religious idea that this scientific theory does seem to agree with is the current Christian idea that the soul is created with the body, then lives on afterwards, but does not reincarnate. If you read the history of this idea, you will know that it came from an emperor with the idea of controlling his subjects, and had no agreement with the religion he changed thereby. Personally, I have no use for religion or physical theories that try to agree with something that is a gross aberration of the truth to begin with. But, in spite of this, I do think that this theory builds a bit of a bridge between physics and reality, even though it is backwards.