Do you think a ANY president could turn things around in America?

No. No individual or organization can turn things around. The main reason it is impossible, is because of the debt. There is no possible way to eliminate the debt. I can't even begin to imagine what will happen when the people realize this and the government has to admit it.

But aside from that, no one can turn the country back into a free nation of prosperous people. To do so would involve clearly defining the roles of government and the rights of the people. Politicians can't and won't do either of those. Then we would have to start working backwards to undo more than a century of oppressive legislation, regulation and executive orders. Then shrink the size and control of the federal government. But even after all that, technology and an almost entirely eroded morality and ethical mentality prevents the people from competently bearing the responsibility and burden of being free.

reply to post by liejunkie01


A little quote I made up "Money is only important to those who think money is important" This is what I'll do. When I turn 35 I'll run for president. All of my debates will be online for the world to see and I'll drive from state to state on my own dollar. Just because the top makes it harder for people to be heard with out money doesn't mean their voice has no volume it just means you have to send a better message. I'll tell my voters I would love to see you in person but its not in the cards right now but i'll give you my everything through facetime and youtube and if you like my message when I become president I'll make sure I stop by every state once i have the resources and give my thanks. I would rather spend money on research and things that matter rather than blow it on thousands of gallons of jet fuel.

Originally posted by Wolf321
No. No individual or organization can turn things around. The main reason it is impossible, is because of the debt. There is no possible way to eliminate the debt. I can't even begin to imagine what will happen when the people realize this and the government has to admit it.

But aside from that, no one can turn the country back into a free nation of prosperous people. To do so would involve clearly defining the roles of government and the rights of the people. Politicians can't and won't do either of those. Then we would have to start working backwards to undo more than a century of oppressive legislation, regulation and executive orders. Then shrink the size and control of the federal government. But even after all that, technology and an almost entirely eroded morality and ethical mentality prevents the people from competently bearing the responsibility and burden of being free.

Use our tech to build clean solar, wind, tidal, geothermal plants and sell said power to Canada and mexico at a lesser cost than dirty energy and make a treaty with them that states that xx% of savings is to be redistributed to the power structure to cover new developments and tech that would be implemented in their country to bring them up to our standard of energy. Do the same for food. Grow food in giant green houses where the atmosphere can be maintained for year round growing in ideal conditions with no adverse impact on the land. Keep the green house sterile and you won't need a bunch of bad fertilizer I would use biological waste (old food, trash, manure, ect) and no pesticides. Then turn the surplus of food over for a profit. Win-win once a solar panel is built then energy is pretty much free. very little man power, little tech input once refined.

Hell build the green house out of transparent solar panels.
I would also demand that energy rations be applied as well as food. I personally think it should be a crime to be overweight due to over eating. People get tickets for wasting water but no one is man enough to say you are getting a ticket for wasting food and energy.

Who would want things turned around in America better yet the world. The oppression tyranny and slavery of the world has reason to it. Reasons some might not want to believe but they are true. Those reason are for advancement of the species an and the betterment of consciousness worldwide.

If you want to enslave a man let him think he is free. Those that can be deceived will be decieved. And should be decieved for they have no sense of self or oneness there fore it must be thrust upon them for them to fully understand the light. To fully understand love. There will be a time VERY VERY SOON where all of this will make sense to all people of the earth.

Just trust that our governments are doing the right thing even if it seems that they are not.

May the one true intelligence be with you and in essense all the gods of all the religions. Which is consciousness.

Originally posted by marbles87
I would also demand that energy rations be applied as well as food. I personally think it should be a crime to be overweight due to over eating. People get tickets for wasting water but no one is man enough to say you are getting a ticket for wasting food and energy.

The topic was turning America around. As I understand that, it involved becoming free again. You would have us jump ahead a couple of decades in the march towards totalitarianism.

I think the only thing that can turn it around is ourselves by clearing out all the career, corrupt politicians in both Houses of Congress. Unfortunately, I don't think their are enough citizens who follow politics as closely as they should and to how their legislators vote.

Put in all new blood, term limit Congress, and remove all lobbiests, then the President might have more influence.

Originally posted by Wolf321

Originally posted by marbles87
I would also demand that energy rations be applied as well as food. I personally think it should be a crime to be overweight due to over eating. People get tickets for wasting water but no one is man enough to say you are getting a ticket for wasting food and energy.

The topic was turning America around. As I understand that, it involved becoming free again. You would have us jump ahead a couple of decades in the march towards totalitarianism.

there is no difference in wasting one resource than another. The water department issues tickets because of water shortages and no one cares right every one yells that's the right thing to do. You issue tickets because someone wastes energy or for being in poor health of your own doing people will scream you can't do that. I believe health care, energy, food and the like should be available to everyone who puts in their dues to society. But you must punish the wasters. Everyone is free to do whatever you want. Go 100mph down the free way and don't cry when you get a ticket right... eat three big macs a day then don't cry when you have to pay premiums for your food and health care. Always give people the right to make a decision but show them the benefits of going with the plan for example the best health care in the world and let them know the consequences of ignorance like being 200lbs over weight and cost tax payers thousands of dollars a month more than a person on a proper diet.

but I forgot this is America where there is unlimited everything. No food or energy shortages here right.

With that logic I have done these things.

Increased green food production
increased green energy
increased health care (less money spent on obesity means more spent on research to fight other problems)
more fit work force and longer life spans
energy surplus
food surplus
millions of jobs
lower food costs
lower energy costs
lower if not non existent personal health costs to the citizen
beneficial relationships with other countries with the basis of improving everyone full circle
increased learning ability because children will have real organic foods available at school and not processed foods that are terrible and no one goes hungry
improving the environment

and the funny thing is given the right platform all of these could be delivered. We have the tech for it all the only hard part would still be energy but with enough research solar would catch up quick.

sure it might not be bullet proof but it would be a very good start.

Originally posted by marbles87
there is no difference in wasting one resource than another. The water department issues tickets because of water shortages and no one cares right every one yells that's the right thing to do. You issue tickets because someone wastes energy or for being in poor health of your own doing people will scream you can't do that. I believe health care, energy, food and the like should be available to everyone who puts in their dues to society. But you must punish the wasters. Everyone is free to do whatever you want. Go 100mph down the free way and don't cry when you get a ticket right... eat three big macs a day then don't cry when you have to pay premiums for your food and health care. Always give people the right to make a decision but show them the benefits of going with the plan for example the best health care in the world and let them know the consequences of ignorance like being 200lbs over weight and cost tax payers thousands of dollars a month more than a person on a proper diet.

Before I respond to that passage, let me say that I am a proponent of clean and green living. I personally think every home should be a homestead and every building should be designed and constructed to be clean and efficient.

However, I don't want the government forcing that on the people. I don't think we should stop people from consuming if they can and want to. Be it water, power, food etc. A person should not be punished for something that does not infringe on the rights of another. I think in that aspect we may have some differences of opinion. I don't think healthcare is a right. The government wasn't created to provide for the medical, food, education, housing etc of the people. It was created to ensure the people had the freedom to pursue those things on their own without force or government intervention. The vast majority of our problems as a nation come from the ever expanding role government is assuming for itself, thus taking away freedom from the people.

Originally posted by Wolf321

Originally posted by marbles87
there is no difference in wasting one resource than another. The water department issues tickets because of water shortages and no one cares right every one yells that's the right thing to do. You issue tickets because someone wastes energy or for being in poor health of your own doing people will scream you can't do that. I believe health care, energy, food and the like should be available to everyone who puts in their dues to society. But you must punish the wasters. Everyone is free to do whatever you want. Go 100mph down the free way and don't cry when you get a ticket right... eat three big macs a day then don't cry when you have to pay premiums for your food and health care. Always give people the right to make a decision but show them the benefits of going with the plan for example the best health care in the world and let them know the consequences of ignorance like being 200lbs over weight and cost tax payers thousands of dollars a month more than a person on a proper diet.

Before I respond to that passage, let me say that I am a proponent of clean and green living. I personally think every home should be a homestead and every building should be designed and constructed to be clean and efficient.

However, I don't want the government forcing that on the people. I don't think we should stop people from consuming if they can and want to. Be it water, power, food etc. A person should not be punished for something that does not infringe on the rights of another. I think in that aspect we may have some differences of opinion. I don't think healthcare is a right. The government wasn't created to provide for the medical, food, education, housing etc of the people. It was created to ensure the people had the freedom to pursue those things on their own without force or government intervention. The vast majority of our problems as a nation come from the ever expanding role government is assuming for itself, thus taking away freedom from the people.

edit on 31-10-2012 by Wolf321 because: (no reason given)

I agree if you are self reliant and you provide for you existence than by all means the government should leave you alone. But remember we are not trying to punish those who are doing the right thing. If you have your own garden and create your own energy and your own water then that's great and no one could ask for more from a citizen. It's those who abuse the resources we have. I don't think you can disagree that let's say. Joe American was a high school football teen in great shape physically and mentally. Then Joe got lazy and drank nothing but soda and ate nothing but cheeseburgers. Joe had a job and benefits and everything was swell. Over time Joe got out of shape and now he has diabetes which insurance pays for because Joe works. The Doc tells him Joe you have to get it together you're in bad shape. Joe goes home after stopping at the golden arches for the second time that day for food. A year later Joe is in rough shape. He needs a wheel chair and can't work any more so he gets disability and other assistance like medicaid. That is the point where someones life effects another. When Joe goes to the hospital the Gov't pays the bill to the hospital with tax payer monies and the other assistance. If someone would have stepped in and told Joe "Hey Joe, you are going down a slippery slope and you will end up lame because of your food habits" What we will do for you is get you a trainer which will be required for you to keep XX insurance and you must pay 10$ extra a month for this trainer until are firing on all cylinders then we will reevaluate you in a year and if everything is great then you will no longer owe the 10$ but you still get to keep the trainer because your peak health now saved xx ins co money in the long run as long as you maintain peak health the trainer is free all you have to do is a check up every six months and its smooth sailing. Win-Win

I don't want to pick on the over weight but it really is taking it's toll all across the board and there is not one overweight person that really wants to be over weight. If they do then they should supply that lifestyle on their own. But all to often once people reach a point they have to start taking from others via tax dollars to maintain their life when it could have been avoided with a well thought out plan and some motivation.

Same goes with energy. Use what you need but don't over do it. Like all the casinos on the strip. I don't think a single one of them is using solar and in Vegas it is shine 340+ days a year. I would fine those casinos to mitigate the cost it is causing on the locals who use very little energy but still have to pay high energy bills because the strip is using a huge amount of power (demand) when the casinos have the money to take some of the pressure off of their energy use.

Originally posted by marbles87
A year later Joe is in rough shape. He needs a wheel chair and can't work any more so he gets disability and other assistance like medicaid.

Here is your flaw. It was never the governments role to provide these things for the people. It only becomes a burden because the government has taken that power away from the people. Turning things around in America would have joe living with the consequences of his actions and no one else faced with any financial burden because of it.

Same goes with energy. Use what you need but don't over do it. Like all the casinos on the strip. I don't think a single one of them is using solar and in Vegas it is shine 340+ days a year. I would fine those casinos to mitigate the cost it is causing on the locals who use very little energy but still have to pay high energy bills because the strip is using a huge amount of power (demand) when the casinos have the money to take some of the pressure off of their energy use.

Any product or resource should be the same price despite the customer. Yes, it is a shame if the casinos living in such ideal conditions don't try to be more independent energy-wise, but the city grew around the casinos not the other way around. The people are freely choosing to deal with any high energy costs created by the casinos because of the jobs and money they bring into the area.

We should encourage thrift, efficiency and conservation, but should not force it under threat of force. More freedom for all. Let humanity be free to grow or destroy itself by its choices.

Originally posted by Hefficide

Thus, trying to change things via a POTUS is an illusion. We, as a people, have to demand a change to the system. Term limits not only for Congress, but for an entire political career... Something along the line of 24 years total in public service - in all offices. Period. We must also abolish lobbying, SuperPacs ( campaign finance - basically buying office ), and roll back Congressional "perks"... You want them to take the health care issue seriously? Make THEM ALL get whatever insurance options they provide us with. Having a bunch of people with 100% medical and dental decide whether or not we can see a doctor is simply ludicrous.

~Heff

Everything about your post was great. Campaign financing through SuperPACs undermines the one man's vote. Corporations and SuperPACs aren't people. It's such an abstract concept. I mean, imagine running into Monsanto at a bar, having a couple beers and suggesting that he might have lost weight. See, that last sentence sounds ludicrous. Sorry, Heff, just wanted to add to your post about that since I keep hearing about it.

reply to post by Wolf321


I believe everything in life is checks and balances and every life is valuable and no one should be left to fend for themselves while everyone else turns their backs when they have done nothing wrong to deserve it. Look at the homeless and those who are out of work. A lot of them 99%+ have useful skills that we need around but no one has figured out how to get jobs where they need to be and get people to those jobs. It seems like the reason we are in the spot we are in is because we left everyone to fend for themselves without regard to the bigger picture. We need to live in a place where one hand washes the other and nothing more nothing less. But in today's age it's one person tricking the other to work via money or special interests. I mean we have 20% poverty in America so pretty much we have turned our backs on 1 in 5. If everyone worked for the greater goal like getting off of fossil fuels someone somewhere will find the answer then we can all be winners. But movement forward in the world is only fueled by money or other interests. I can't help but to think if the Egyptians built the pyramids 5,000 years ago with bronze tools and a little free thinking imagine what we could could do with what we have now. If it wasn't for the corrupt angle money puts on things I have no doubt in my mind that we could be vacationing on the moon and other out of this world things.

Problems like population, food, energy, water, environment and resources should be hashed out globally by those who understand the situation to the very smallest detail but instead we have special interest groups holding everyone back because they profit off of the problem and they are the ones in charge. Of course big oil wants to tell the world that there is no alternative when they are racking in money hand over fist as the seas and land are polluted. If something doesn't change then I fear humans in the coming years will in a whole world of hurt when there is no drinking water because it is polluted and there are no trees and there is so much air pollution plants won't grow. You can always have your cake and eat it too as long as you have the recipe and ingredients.

Originally posted by marbles87
reply to post by Wolf321

 

I believe everything in life is checks and balances and every life is valuable and no one should be left to fend for themselves while everyone else turns their backs when they have done nothing wrong to deserve it. Look at the homeless and those who are out of work. A lot of them 99%+ have useful skills that we need around but no one has figured out how to get jobs where they need to be and get people to those jobs. It seems like the reason we are in the spot we are in is because we left everyone to fend for themselves without regard to the bigger picture. We need to live in a place where one hand washes the other and nothing more nothing less. But in today's age it's one person tricking the other to work via money or special interests. I mean we have 20% poverty in America so pretty much we have turned our backs on 1 in 5. If everyone worked for the greater goal like getting off of fossil fuels someone somewhere will find the answer then we can all be winners.

I understand your view, but what you have identified is degradation of society because of the erosion of morals and ethics. Just imagine, if people were completely moral, ethical and altruistic, we wouldn't even need a government to make and enforce laws, because society would be completely self controlled and completely free. Unfortunately, instead of mankind progressing towards that goal, we have become more selfish, aggressive and wasteful. Should we then throw on additional yokes to control the people? Some nations think so. America is different. Its whole reason for being was to be a free nation unlike any that has existed in the world. Sadly, we have become more like the rest of the nations we escaped from instead.

You agreed before that the fat unhealthy joe should live with his choices. So to must the American people and mankind. If our morals and ethics have caused our ailments, then we must live with the repercussion. Hopefully we can learn from them and return to a stable and free course. But we must also accept the end should it come because of our choices. Freedom isn't a guarantee of happiness.

Problems like population, food, energy, water, environment and resources should be hashed out globally by those who understand the situation to the very smallest detail but instead we have special interest groups holding everyone back because they profit off of the problem and they are the ones in charge. Of course big oil wants to tell the world that there is no alternative when they are racking in money hand over fist as the seas and land are polluted. If something doesn't change then I fear humans in the coming years will in a whole world of hurt when there is no drinking water because it is polluted and there are no trees and there is so much air pollution plants won't grow.

I don't believe in international government or people deciding for everyone. Not under the system the world operates in now at least. Each nation should be responsible to themselves, as long as they don't infringe on the rights of others. Much like each individual should.

I think there has long been a conspiracy to hide cheap clean tech from the public. I don't think we will reach the point of pollution you describe, because I feel the entire system of government, economy, etc will collapse before it gets that far.

America now only has 1 possible solution to turn things around.

Congress passed the new law giving the President authority to kill Americans without a Trial, as well as use the military to detain citizens forever without a trial.

The only solution is Articles of Surrender. 1 piece of paper, surrender control over to somebody else.

Couldn't possibly get any worse than it is now.

Who's for going under England again? Australia?