Who is Gods creator?

What is to be thought of the opinion that attributes the first formation of things to a fortuitous combination of matter, in other words, to chance?

"Another absurdity! Who that is possessed of common sense can regard chance as an intelligent agent? And, besides, what is chance? Nothing."

The harmony which regulates the mechanism of the universe can only result from combinations adopted in view of predetermined ends, and thus, by its very nature, reveals the existence of an Intelligent Power. To attribute the first formation of things to chance is nonsense for chance cannot produce the results of intelligence. If chance could be intelligent, it would cease to be chance.


What proof have we that the first cause of all things is a Supreme Intelligence, superior to all other intelligences?

"You have a proverb which says, 'The workman is known by his work.' Look around you, and, from the quality of the work, infer that of the workman."

We judge of the power of an intelligence by its works as no human being could create that which is produced by nature, it is evident that the first cause must be an Intelligence superior to man. Whatever may be the prodigies accomplished by human intelligence, that intelligence itself must have a cause and the greater the results achieved by it, the greater must be the cause of which it is the effect. It is this Supreme Intelligence that is the first cause of all things, whatever the name by which mankind may designate it.


When we say that God is eternal, infinite, unchangeable, immaterial, unique, all-powerful, sovereignty just and good, have we not a complete idea of His attributes?

"Yes, judging from your point of view, because you think that you sum up everything in those terms; but you must understand that there are things which transcend the intelligence of the most intelligent man, and for which your language, limited to your ideas and sensations, has no expressions. Your reason tells you that God must possess those perfections in the supreme degree; for, if one of them were lacking, or were not possessed by Him in an infinite degree, He would riot be superior to all, and consequently would not be God. In order to be above all things, God must undergo no vicissitudes, He must have none of the imperfections of which the imagination can conceive."

reply to post by IEtherianSoul9


To try and comprehend what God could be is confusing. Im gonna make a coffee and ponder it.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


What if god were a donut? You could walk the surface of a donut and never find the beginning or the end. It would seem to be eternal, but it's still only a donut.

Originally posted by Destinyone
reply to post by AthlonSavage

 

Me...

I created God. I gathered copious amounts of Universal Energy, swirled it around, mixed in Galactic Reverberating Tones Inhaled deeply, and breathed life into God.

Did I do good......

Des

Why did you make him so vengeful and petty?

reply to post by IEtherianSoul9

I can think of three possibilities:

1. Humans created God in their image.

The other possibility.

Humans created Biblical God in their image.

However there really exists God (not connected to the Bible)

2. God was created by another supernatural being (this becomes a circular argument).

A silly argument. Point of my post.

reply to post by windword


If that doughnut was eternal I would create a philosophical argument for its godliness

reply to post by Shadow Herder

What is to be thought of the opinion that attributes the first formation of things to a fortuitous combination of matter, in other words, to chance?

"Another absurdity! Who that is possessed of common sense can regard chance as an intelligent agent? And, besides, what is chance? Nothing."

Where will free will more likely to exist? In a system where cause and effect are bounded togther within a system, or one where cause is separated outside the system. If we can articulate a set of rules for how objects exercise freedom within a bounded system then possibly it indicates that chance is an illusion, and everything that happens no matter how small or big is a result of intelligent control.

Before the universe came into being there was no such thing as time, energy nor matter. They were all created in an instant from nothingness. Since God created time, He is outside of time, therefore He has no beginning in time, He has always existed. It's so pathetic how people coin similitudes for God. You were once just a drop of fluid, not even visible to the naked eye. You’ve grown in your mother’s womb. Look at yourself now, how perfectly and beautifully you have been designed. Humans cannot even fully explain their own creation yet they set similitudes for God.

“Does not man see that We have created him from a mere sperm drop? Yet lo! he is an open quarreler! And he coins similitudes for Us and forgets his own creation. He says, ‘Who can quicken the bones when they are decayed?’ Say, ‘He, Who created them the first time, will quicken them; and He knows every kind of creation full well.” [36:78-80]

“Did We not create you from an insignificant fluid, and We placed it in a safe place, for a known measure of time? Thus did We measure, and how excellently do We measure!”. [77:21-24]

Do this… go look at yourself in the mirror for a few minutes and reflect, who was it that actually created you? Did you design your beautiful eyes, hands and body? Of course not. If a simple thing like a pen has a creator, what on earth makes you think the most complex being in the universe does not?

“So let man consider from what he is created.” [86:6]

We live in a universe of length, width, height and time.. Because we are in that system everything has a beginning and an end,, God lives outside that system.. No space, width, length, height or time..... No time, no beginning and no end, just being.. So God can just exist and is the true non created life.. He is a system unto himself, not needing anything or anyone to exist..

Now, if your an evolutionist, you run into the same problem when trying to explain the creation of the universe.. Where did it all come from? Every atom, plant, life, intelligence and person that ever was and ever will be had to have been in that tiny super massive particle. Where did it come from? How did it become? If science is right and the universe will loose all its heat and freeze up, killing everything.. Why have intelligent life and plant the seed of eternity in our minds if nothing including the universe is eternal?

In his own words........

In the Book of Revelation, it reads “I am the Alpha and Omega, the first and the last.”(Revelation 1:8)

Which directly interprets........

Alpha and Omega, alpha (α or Α) and omega (ω or Ω), are the first and the last letters of the Greek alphabet.

Hope this helps

reply to post by 0SolidSnake0

[77:21-24]

Im not religous what book are you referencing?

reply to post by HooHaa

He is a system unto himself, not needing anything or anyone to exist

How can you say that with dead surity? The existance of the universe may be critical to Gods survival in a way we dont comprehend.

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
reply to post by 0SolidSnake0

 

[77:21-24]

Im not religous what book are you referencing?

Quran

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


It's eternal enough.....

For your examination.........

en.wikipedia.org...

www.meetingtent.com...

God has always been.

I could use an analogy.

1+1=2

Why? Because it does. Always has always will do. Nothing made that equation work out like that one day by manipulation. It just is.

As God himself said "I Am".

reply to post by AthlonSavage


Better question.

Who creating the nothing that occupies the space between things?

It has to exist, or everything would be combined in one mass.

It has as much weight as asking who made god, in that the answer means nothing in reality. Barry at number 28 could have made it out of empty beer cans.

as long as we ask "What is behind the curtain?" we'll never be satisfied that we ever really know.

reply to post by AthlonSavage


. . even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God" (Psalm 90:2). And, "Your throne is established from of old; Thou art from everlasting" (Psalm 93:2).

Our entire existence is built around matter and set law occupying time/space. Time/Space is not a division. Time is Space and Space is Time. You cannot have one without the other. Additionally, time/space is a relationship of matter in dimension. What we observe with consciousness is the observation of collapsing wave function as it takes indeterminate probability and renders it to determined.

God is not matter or even here in matter. God is above this process and even beyond dimensionality, yet He is in and through it all as well. How many more properties of existence are there? We don't know. We only know this one that moves and transitions. God is said to be eternal and unmoved. Our conceptualization of consciousness is based on time/space, yet it does not necessarily require it. Other realities must exist above this one to allow for this one to exist. We have no way to measure it.

A great description of this is found in the Corpus Hermeticum. The best translation into good English is a book called The Way of Hermes. For now, read this version: Corpus Hermeticum

Heck I guess you'd have to have the ultimate time machine that could travel back in time to nothingness. When you arrive at the alpha point you might see a light that is eternally encompasing and bright. Then God would send your arse back to where you came from and say " YOU SHALL BE THE ONLY ONE WHO SEES ME-TELL
ALL OTHERS WHAT YOU SAW-THOSE THAT BELIEVE YOU SHALL JOIN ME IN HEAVEN-GOOD LUCK "

Originally posted by GrimReaper86
reply to post by AthlonSavage

 

If I were to take a step back from my spiritual beliefs I would venture that alternatively we are part of some sort of vast quantum computer program....like a universal sized Sims. We can live our lives being blissfully unaware of the "God" that is the player is making decisions that impact our lives sometimes subtly, sometimes more directly. These are my thoughts. Take them as you will.

Reply to GrimReaper(not Athlon Savage) Sorry don't know how to change it:
Are you sure these are your thoughts and not something you read recently?
This is an interesting article
www.huffingtonpost.co.uk...

The Matrix File Physicists say they may have evidence that the universe is a computer simulation. How? They made a computer simulation of the universe. And it looks sort of like us. A long-proposed thought experiment, put forward by both philosophers and popular culture, points out that any civilisation of sufficient size and intelligence would eventually create a simulation universe if such a thing were possible. And since there would therefore be many more simulations (within simulations, within simulations) than real universes, it is therefore more likely than not that our world is artificial. Now a team of researchers at the University of Bonn in Germany led by Silas Beane say they have evidence this may be true. In a paper named 'Constraints on the Universe as a Numerical Simulation', they point out that current simulations of the universe - which do exist, but which are extremely weak and small - naturally put limits on physical laws. Technology Review explains that "the problem with all simulations is that the laws of physics, which appear continuous, have to be superimposed onto a discrete three dimensional lattice which advances in steps of time." What that basically means is that by just being a simulation, the computer would put limits on, for instance, the energy that particles can have within the program. These limits would be experienced by those living within the sim - and as it turns out, something which looks just like these limits do in fact exist.

Oh, for crying-out-loud, don't you guys get it? "It's MAGIC."

Or so I'm led to believe by all the 'intellectual' threads on this site.

When faced with logic, the refuge of the faithful is, "It's MAGIC." Or a version thereof.