reply to post by AthlonSavage
Well, for those of us who are simple minded in this respect, God is that intelligence that was responsible for our creation.
I am a middle aged Jewish man, fairly conventional. I roam a little outside the mainstream in a couple of areas. I believe much of what we are told
detail wise about our world may not be accurate; the reality of our nuclear arsenal, the reality of the Apollo moon landings, the true history of the
events constituting the Holocaust. Where I do roam outside the mainstream, I find myself making my commitments based on facts. This isn't a
Holocaust thread, but to make my point, what I mean by that is we now know more like 1.5 million people were murdered by Nazis in Auschwitz during
Hitler's reign of terror, not 4 million as was originally advertised. This is a fact, and so when I do go outside the mainstream as is the case with
my Holocaust position, it is a pretty safe and well supported mainstream. In the case of the Holocaust, the facts tell us it did happen, these are
the facts after all. But there is the Holocaust mythology that stands apart from the facts, a sort of official story that endorses a certain
orientation and world view, a very much pro Israel one. It is important when dealing with these matters to not confuse the two, the facts on the one
hand and the official mythology of grand world events; "Apollo and the Moon Landings", "The Holocaust" , "The Building of the American Atom Bomb and
the Development of the American Nuclear Arsenal",
But with religion and views about our origins, this type of thing is not even possible. And such views about our origin is in fact what we mean by
"GOD". God is that which created us. God is the creative power, what ever it is, that accounts for our being here. There are only two options.
That power is fundamentally intelligent=religion=my Judaism, or that power is an entirely natural, mindless, directionless entity. It cares not for
whether you are here or not. By their very definition, both of these creative forces cannot be held by one person as both being responsible for his
or her life. The God of Genesis made us, or the God of Darwin made us. And the philosophies are mutually exclusive. (By God of Genesis I do not
mean literally the God of the Jews. I mean an intelligent being that had the power to create and did create this Universe. The Jews may not be the
chosen people. The intelligence that made the universe may not be Yaweh. But if that is the case, it does not mean that another intelligent being
could not have made me.)
"God" is the she, he, it, responsible for our creation. This is what we mean by the term in its most important and fundamental sense. And sadly,
and most difficultly, one is forced to commit to choosing one or the other, Yaweh vs Darwin, outside of any collection of facts. And for me
personally, it turns out that here I am conventionally Jewish. I suspect I think as I do because of my parents, strong personalities. I am God's
creation, as is this entire Universe. That is what I think, about myself and the universe. This is what it means to fundamentally to be Jewish, or
Christian, or Muslim. I know about it from the Jewish perspective, but compare notes with my gentile friends.
I have seen other postings by writers more articulate than I am who know more of biology so I will not say too much here. But as far as I can tell,
no one has brought up this important point and I would like to emphasize it. Whether we admit it or not, and this includes the most atheistic of
scientists that march to Darwin's beat, we all pretty much go it by way of faith, no matter what, and kind of crazily, what is expected of us is
this sort of schizophrenia, a splitting of oneself. We wind up with an illogical mess of a perspective until you get strong enough to make the big
Those of us that go to college, or graduate school even as I did, we all know and are expected to parrot that we are the product of evolution. That
God or the creative power in this universe is nature herself. We were all made without any intentionality whatsoever by a blind, undirected,
uncaring, thoughtless process. But on Saturday in Temple I am expected to go along with this idea that I was created by a loving intelligence as were
all of the people now reading these lines. But the two cannot be held as true by the same person if that person is to have any self respect and
intellectual integrity. And so those of us who do think and feel about this conundrum wind up letting one of the "Gods" go, either the Jewish God of
the Book of Genesis, or the natural creative force first described by Charles Darwin.
I wound up letting Darwin go. I cannot base my choice on facts as I do with trying to understand other controversial issues. No one saw God create
me. No one saw a fish become a reptile become a bird, and there is no detailed fossil record to support such was the case. So you play a hunch or
just go with what feels better in terms of deciding who created you.
On some level I prefer to see myself as that beautiful human being created with intention and purpose as opposed to being the end product of a
mindless natural process. I think I chose as do many on more or less a preference as there are no real facts to go on. There is no hunch to play
for me either way, although I suspect for some people there might be a sense of hunch. There are no facts to appeal to except the fact that I like
myself better as the creation of God as an intelligence as opposed to "God" as a mindless creative force in nature.
It is an aside, but I think we could end the debate about prayer in school and teaching evolution vs creationism in school by simply pointing this out
and going with it. We all acknowledge evolution as it is usually taught in high school has a fight to pick with Judaism in that they are incompatible
with respect to the difficulty described above. We can talk about that in class and I think the problem is so solved.
my two cents
edit on 23-3-2013 by DaylightSavingsTime because: corrected my spelling and punctuation errors. added a sort of definition of