Former Editor of 'The Roswell Morning Dispatch' Recalls Events From Historic UFO Crash | INTERVIEW

What Samaka just wrote was right on.
Not in a hippy right on but a right on the spot.
And to be completely convinced there is nothing
going on in our sky's in the way of advanced craft?
Come on...
Not enough evidence?
There's WAY too much now.
You don't trust cgi? Only look at cases before cgi.

You don't trust film and video ? Go to PRE-1947,
PRE the term "Saucer" and look at all the photos of Saucers.

Throw out all visual evidence ? Sure, research the
ENDLESS pilot UFO encounters. Civilian and Military,
many times with civilian and military radar returns backing their claims.


How about the Psychology of the Headline in 1947?

Would an elite nuclear carrying bomb group like the 509th
release a sensational headline if they had found Russian Materials?
No way.
Would they have released a sensational headline if a craft from any known
country or manufacturer was found nearby? Do they do these press releases as a rule?
You know call the paper and say" Hi this is the Air-Force..."
Other than "we have a bake sale and parade coming up",
Nope.
The only thing that makes psychological sense is a human or group of humans
being so taken a back by what they've found that they release the story knowing
this is other worldly and as humans we are one in our astonishment.
Then the phone rang like never before.
Next day, "oops just a balloon, our 509th Atomic Bomb Groups bad."
You're an amazing debunker Shrike but this makes more sense to me,
and of course, this is just my opinion.

Originally posted by The Shrike

Originally posted by Jchristopher5
snip

I almost never agree with you The Shrike, you often make me want to scream. I just can't figure out if you are a paid hack, or if these are really your thoughts.

In previous posts, you have told us how smart you are. Proven with standardized IQ tests. Yet, somehow you come to the conclusion that Friedman made everything up. Plus, every time in my 50 years I have had someone telling how smart they are, are usually mistaken. Actions louder than words.

1. Did he make up the press release by the military that they had captured a flying disk? How do you explain this? Do you think, with your great intellect, that the most technologically advanced intelligence team would mistake a balloon, even a Mogul balloon, for a flying disk? That makes no sense. Since that is the beginning of the public story, it is a good place to start.
2. Did he "make up" the video testimony of Marcel, who handled the wreckage and was made a fool by the government cover story?
3. Did he make up the death bed confession of Haut, who issued the press release?
4. Did Friedman make up the Ramey memo, which General Ramey is holding in the famous "wreckage picture?". With modern technology, this memo proves, to me, that the General was very likely covering up the real events, like "dead aviators of the disk".
5. Did Friedman make up the testimonies of more than 100 witnesses, who by the way, have also been discovered by other researchers besides Friedman?

Every time you make another ridiculous claim, such as "Friedman made everything up", you show yourself to be the exact opposite of what you claim.

edit on 1-11-2012 by Jchristopher5 because: Omissions.

I never expect the gullible to agree with me unless they see the light after reading anything I posted. The sad part, for you, is that history does not agree with you, it's more on my side. It's not up to me to explain anything to you as you have a closed mind that is open only to what you want to accept as fact and that isn't much.

Be my guest and believe all of the bs that you want to believe in, it's devoid of real, historical facts.

And Friedman is the biggest bs'er of all of the popular authors. He is not alone, but he is at the top.

My opinion.


All you seem to be ale to do is cover our ears, scream how smart you, and that everyone who believes something different is gullible. You provide no substance with your response.

Address the points that I made, 1 through 5, other than "no", "gullible", "bs" and "lies".

You can't do it because you are incapable of real thought, up can only spew skeptical rhetoric.

Whoever made the interview:

Besides paraphrazing... according to which the old guy says he believed it was from another galaxy

wait... 'believed' - how is this any more credible than me saying 'I believe' or you saying 'I believe' while it is not based on anything to say, 'the fact is' ... ? So how is this any more credible?

Also when the juicy part starts, a redirection Read More, BUY THE$E DVD$ comes on the next link - this is a typical method to earn money, so tell me, how does this bear any credibility?

Rosewell is full of lies and controversy - that's a fact.

Originally posted by sealing
Call me gullible but the debunking of Roswell is a lost cause.
It's out of the gate, for eons.

The 509th were a rare bomber group. Able to carry "Hot Cargo"
(nuclear weapons) . Certainly trusted and more educated than
the average bomber group of their day.

If we just take the initial report, high strangeness
is an understatement. The press release was from the Army Air Base.
Not some crazy reporter or pilot, the Army Air base.
Why would such an elite group accidentally call a weather balloon
or a project Mogul balloon a Flying disk?
Why did J Edgar Hoover want to see this "weather balloon"
so badly?
I know debunkers have an answer for these things..I think.
But the tables are turned now. Debunkers cannot say with certainty
that no ET craft crashed that night in Roswell.
I certainly don't want to get into a back and forth with members whose every
threads are Alien debunking threads.
But Debunkers, do you believe that there are Extra Terrestrials anywhere in our Universe?
And if so, none are more advanced than we are?
Tell me how you know for certain that nothing other worldly crashed at Roswell.

Direct evidence almost always wins the case in most American courtrooms. Your reply reminds me of a 1961 movie in which a blind Puerto Rican boy is knifed to death by a gang. In the trial it is offered by the prosecution that the murder was an act of self defense as it was claimed that the blind boy was brandishing a knife. The defense eventually proved that it wasn't a knife but a harmonica. The prosecution was certain. The defense found the evidence.

The prosecution says a UFO crashed near Roswell but cannot produce evidence. The defense relies on the participants' evidence. Case goes cold for 30 years!

Even though I have debunked, successfully each time, extraterrestrials have nothing to do with debunking. All we can do, presently and as skeptics not debunkers, is for the claimants to produce evidence to support the claims. I have no evidence to support the reality of ETs and neither does anyone.

I would like to know how the Roswell case has provided so much info when other case with a good number of witnesses have been crushed out.

Originally posted by lyingunderoath
reply to post by Ectoplasm8

 

Hi, has anyone come across anyone who has done research on the foil material actually used for the balloons in '47? One aspect I remember some said the foil found at the site would have "memory",and rebound back to it's original shape. Did the foil the military use for the balloon reported to have been found have this aspect? I feel this is small, but an important description. No big deal today, but back in '47...
I have a hard time the quality of men working at the B-29 base would not instantly recognize the debris as some kind of balloon. I have read that the farmers in the area would get a cash reward for turning in one which fell on their land, everyone knew what they were.
I tend to believe the stories of the old men the past decade or so as they reach the end of their lives. For the truth to come out, to get it off their chests. Some things happen in our lives we never forget. The fear or hold the military might have on them is gone.
A big factor for me as far as a cover-up, the country was far different in 1947 than today. WW 2 had just ended. The military had much more pull than even today. A small town in the middle of nowhere would buckle under the pressure back then fairly easy, even controlling the media.
I do feel something happened outside Roswell. Something that the military could not explain at the time, maybe not even today. So they buried it. I understand this reasoning. Maybe the story will come out if something happens which makes Roswell seem small, but would not bet on it.

It is always best to go to the original source instead of later editions. Here is what is found at Wikipedia which is close to what the newspapers in 1947 reported:
"On June 14, 1947, William Ware "Mack" or "Mac" Brazel noticed some strange clusters of debris while working on the Foster homestead, where he was foreman, some 30 miles (50 km) north of Roswell. This date (or "about three weeks" before July 8) appeared in later stories featuring Brazel, but the initial press release from the Roswell Army Air Field said the find was "sometime last week," suggesting Brazel found the debris in early July.[10] Brazel told the Roswell Daily Record that he and his son saw a "large area of bright wreckage made up of rubber strips, tinfoil, a rather tough paper and sticks."[11] He paid little attention to it but returned on July 4 with his son, wife and daughter to gather up the material.[12]"

The bs stories that emerged when the subject was popularized in the late '70s/early '80s stray from the truth because as you can see by the description above reality is boring and saying that the foild had "memory", etc., sounds exotic as crumbling foil in your hand and forming a ball. Also, notice that the debris was allowed to sit in situ for a length of time. If there had been a real UFO crash do you think that even a regular guy as Brazel was he would leave it lying around with dead or partially live beings to rot?

When it comes to Roswell logic should reign but it is illogic that has won out.

reply to post by The Shrike

The Shrike,

Lets start at the beginning of the public story. On July 8th, a press release was sent out that RAAF had captured a flying disk. That is fact. It was debunked the next day as a weather balloon. 40 years later it was changed to a Mogul balloon array. A balloon in any case, with ordinary electronics that a highly skilled intelligence officer like Marcel would know as ours.

So, why the original release that we had found a disk? Here are the possibilities.

1. We really found one, and a release was granted locally to send.
2. We found balloons, or Mogul balloon arrays and mistook them for a flying disk.

I believe, based on the premise that Marcel and others were smart enough to know that a balloon looked like. So, I saw it is number one, we found a disk.

Now, who was controlling the disk? We have many, many testimonies, including Marcel, that this material was very different. It could not be cut, the ibeams bent, or burned. Nothing like we have today. Along with memory metals.

So, while you are convinced there is nothing extraterrestrial or alien about Roswell, you can not explain these two things.

Why the press release?
how do you explain the materials?

Yes, I believe Roswell was a crash of unknown intelligence, either off or on planet. Tat is where the facts lead me.

By the way, you are really not a great debunker. I would love to debate you, at any time, about anything to do with UFOs, Roswell, or an alien presence.

Originally posted by Logarock
I would like to know how the Roswell case has provided so much info when other case with a good number of witnesses have been crushed out.

Initially it was popularized by Charles Berlitz and William Moore. Berlitz was a household name, what with the language business and all. Once something is popularized by such eminence certain people smell money waiting to be gathered. It's really that simple. Of course, it was aided by the innocent confabulation of one principal who had mental problems and also saw that he was going to be in the headlines again so old memories were enhanced. After all who wants to rehash old, boring history when with a little white lie it's news again? 30-year-old-memories ain't what they used to be!

Originally posted by Jchristopher5
reply to post by The Shrike

 

The Shrike,

Lets start at the beginning of the public story. On July 8th, a press release was sent out that RAAF had captured a flying disk. That is fact. It was debunked the next day as a weather balloon. 40 years later it was changed to a Mogul balloon array. A balloon in any case, with ordinary electronics that a highly skilled intelligence officer like Marcel would know as ours.

So, why the original release that we had found a disk? Here are the possibilities.

1. We really found one, and a release was granted locally to send.
2. We found balloons, or Mogul balloon arrays and mistook them for a flying disk.

I believe, based on the premise that Marcel and others were smart enough to know that a balloon looked like. So, I saw it is number one, we found a disk.

Now, who was controlling the disk? We have many, many testimonies, including Marcel, that this material was very different. It could not be cut, the ibeams bent, or burned. Nothing like we have today. Along with memory metals.

So, while you are convinced there is nothing extraterrestrial or alien about Roswell, you can not explain these two things.

Why the press release?
how do you explain the materials?

Yes, I believe Roswell was a crash of unknown intelligence, either off or on planet. Tat is where the facts lead me.

By the way, you are really not a great debunker. I would love to debate you, at any time, about anything to do with UFOs, Roswell, or an alien presence.

While you do pose the stock questions and I appreciate them, the fact is that I've answered them ad infinitum here and on other UFO forums since the early '90s so I'll simply answer your questions thusly: Become aware of what the times were like in 1947 and the tension between us and the Russians and our secret attempts at spying on the Russians' atomic tests. That should tell you that the big mouths at Roswell AAFB realized that they had put the U.S. gov't in jeopardy and disarmed the possible endangerment by seemingly making 2 mistakes to turn a secret project into a harmless everyday weather event.

As cops like to say at a scene: "Move on, folks, nothing here of interest" and life returns to normal.

Originally posted by The Shrike

Originally posted by Logarock
I would like to know how the Roswell case has provided so much info when other case with a good number of witnesses have been crushed out.

Initially it was popularized by Charles Berlitz and William Moore. Berlitz was a household name, what with the language business and all. Once something is popularized by such eminence certain people smell money waiting to be gathered. It's really that simple. Of course, it was aided by the innocent confabulation of one principal who had mental problems and also saw that he was going to be in the headlines again so old memories were enhanced. After all who wants to rehash old, boring history when with a little white lie it's news again? 30-year-old-memories ain't what they used to be!

You are not logical. You are somehow able to say you studied this case, yet dismiss every testimony as garbage.

Do you think this stuck with Marcel? He was made a fool of by the military. His expression when touching that balloon, in that famous photo, is very revealing.

Address the Ramey memo "The Shrike". Some phrases like "balloon PR" and "aviators of the disk" are visible.

Yes, it is a puzzle. You have to connect the dots. It is an awesome cover up. To the point of ALL military RAAF base documentation from 1947 and 1948 being mysteriously destroyed. There is enough to piece this story together.

Something mysterious and unknown to our most advanced military personnel crashed. They initially announced the disk recovery, then said it was a balloon. We have a lot of witness testimony on the material being completely unknown.

I can't ignore all of these things. Neither should you.

reply to post by The Shrike

As cops like to say at a scene: "Move on, folks, nothing here of interest" and life returns to normal.

But alas, there is interest. It is a conspiracy to hide the truth from the people.

So no, we can not move along and no we do not accept the truth to be that nothing crashed at Roswell.

Originally posted by Jchristopher5
snip
By the way, you are really not a great debunker. I would love to debate you, at any time, about anything to do with UFOs, Roswell, or an alien presence.

On the contrary, I am a great debunker. My record here, at U-M, at Rense, etc., is unblemished. On ALIENS & UFOS I have started 172 threads and some of them have been about debunking claims by Hoagland, Filer's Files, and many others where I showed that the claims made did not stand up to real research.

It would be my pleasure to debate you on your specified topics. But be prepared to meet someone with unbelievable logic, common sense, reason and without a belief system. There ain't many like me and you'll work hard for your money.

Actually, I would love to hold a symposium on logic, common sense and reason and invite all of the ALIENS & UFOS forum members, and have a dais for those who agree with me. It should be like leading lambs to the slaughterhouse! And, oh yeah, someone invite Stanton Friedman, Mr. Newklear Pheeseecyst.

Originally posted by magma
reply to post by The Shrike

 

As cops like to say at a scene: "Move on, folks, nothing here of interest" and life returns to normal.

But alas, there is interest. It is a conspiracy to hide the truth from the people.

So no, we can not move along and no we do not accept the truth to be that nothing crashed at Roswell.

To my knowledge since 1979/1980 no one has said that nothing crashed (near) at Roswell and that's the problem for whatever came down did not crash. Dragged along the ground for a long distance, yeah. No one hid any truth. You buy that and that is the only problem.

reply to post by sealing

Call me gullible but the debunking of Roswell is a lost cause.
It's out of the gate, for eons.

The 509th were a rare bomber group. Able to carry "Hot Cargo"
(nuclear weapons) . Certainly trusted and more educated than
the average bomber group of their day.

If we just take the initial report, high strangeness
is an understatement. The press release was from the Army Air Base.
Not some crazy reporter or pilot, the Army Air base.
Why would such an elite group accidentally call a weather balloon
or a project Mogul balloon a Flying disk?
Why did J Edgar Hoover want to see this "weather balloon"
so badly?
I know debunkers have an answer for these things..I think.
But the tables are turned now. Debunkers cannot say with certainty
that no ET craft crashed that night in Roswell.
I certainly don't want to get into a back and forth with members whose every
threads are Alien debunking threads.
But Debunkers, do you believe that there are Extra Terrestrials anywhere in our Universe?
And if so, none are more advanced than we are?
Tell me how you know for certain that nothing other worldly crashed at Roswell.

Well said. I am one of the ATS'ers that debunks a lot of "evidence". I debunk footage, not the idea of extraterrestrials. Having seen one of their craft and been involved directly with two other sightings, I know they exist. Roswell is one of those cases that still stands. You just cited several of those "why would" reasons. I add one or two...

How could Jesse (or anyone for that matter) be fooled by the remnants he was photographed with as being any other than balsa and mylar foil? They were certainly familiar with the actual balloons that flew around in their airspace.

Why would the military and press actually call attention to their secret eavesdropping of Russian Nuke tests from a hemisphere away? Kind of self defeating isn't it? Nothing would draw more attention to the base and anything secret going on there than to declare "We got them alien som abitches."

And if they really captured super top tech alien hardware, why announce it at all? This was the height of the "New" Cold War. All an announcement like that could do in any case is make spies from every corner of the globe descend upon New Mexico with binocs and cameras. What ever was the point?

I mean being the site of the most elite bomb group, newfangled radar and test bed central to all captured German war goodies like the V1, V2, and such ultracool tv guided missiles, jets and whatnot? What would be the damn fool point to calling attention to that?

I have a lot more of those why woulds... anyway, thanks for adding to the list.

Originally posted by Jchristopher5

Originally posted by The Shrike

Originally posted by Logarock
I would like to know how the Roswell case has provided so much info when other case with a good number of witnesses have been crushed out.

Initially it was popularized by Charles Berlitz and William Moore. Berlitz was a household name, what with the language business and all. Once something is popularized by such eminence certain people smell money waiting to be gathered. It's really that simple. Of course, it was aided by the innocent confabulation of one principal who had mental problems and also saw that he was going to be in the headlines again so old memories were enhanced. After all who wants to rehash old, boring history when with a little white lie it's news again? 30-year-old-memories ain't what they used to be!

You are not logical. You are somehow able to say you studied this case, yet dismiss every testimony as garbage.

Do you think this stuck with Marcel? He was made a fool of by the military. His expression when touching that balloon, in that famous photo, is very revealing.

Address the Ramey memo "The Shrike". Some phrases like "balloon PR" and "aviators of the disk" are visible.

Yes, it is a puzzle. You have to connect the dots. It is an awesome cover up. To the point of ALL military RAAF base documentation from 1947 and 1948 being mysteriously destroyed. There is enough to piece this story together.

Something mysterious and unknown to our most advanced military personnel crashed. They initially announced the disk recovery, then said it was a balloon. We have a lot of witness testimony on the material being completely unknown.

I can't ignore all of these things. Neither should you.

Get this issue, find the article and look at the photos. My brother-in-law, a former professional photographer, was commissioned to go to the National Archives in Washington, DC, and take photos of the Roswell debris. I accompanied him and assisted. I handled the Roswell debris. What have you got besides unsupportable theories about what others have reported?

BTW, "We have a lot of witness testimony on the material being completely unknown." is total bs.

reply to post by The Shrike

...no one has said that nothing crashed (near) at Roswell and that's the problem for whatever came down did not crash. Dragged along the ground for a long distance, yeah. No one hid any truth. You buy that and that is the only problem.

What? I believe the reports clearly "suggest" more than one "site". One being a "debris field" (the widely understood and oft reported one) and a "crash site" several miles off the debris field (the oft underreported one).

That is what a "shoot down" scenario usually reflects. A debris field under where the missile hit the "bogey" and a crash site where the disabled craft came down.

New technology. Caught the aliens with their pants down. Also harder to ever admit too. We "shot them down".

reply to post by The Shrike

I handled the Roswell debris. What have you got besides unsupportable theories about what others have reported?

How do you know that the material you "handled" was not substituted?

Popular Mechanics, really? The unofficial official parrot for government disinfo and propaganda...

Thanks, will get to reading shortly. I've always loved the Roswell conspiracy and am actually currently reading the Whitley Strieber novel on the subject.

I would like to hear more evidence before I can draw any conclusion, but I guess that always the case with most things.

Just want that true smoking gun

Does this interview have any legitimacy too it? Senior Research Engineer Boyd Bushman worked for Lockheed Martin and in this documentary he alludes too recovered technology.

Could this be a reference to the Roswell incident. Would love to hear your opinions.

www.youtube.com...