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Bill Would Reduce Welfare Benefits For Women Who Cannot Prove They Were Raped

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posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 01:41 PM
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Pennsylvania lawmakers — State Reps. RoseMarie Swanger (R), Tom Caltagirone (D), Mark Gillen (R), Keith Gillespie (R), Adam Harris (R), and Mike Tobash (R) — don’t want their state’s welfare program to provide additional benefits for that newborn. If a woman gives birth to a child who was conceived from rape, she may seek an exception to this rule so that her welfare benefits aren’t slashed, but only if she can provide proof that she reported her sexual assault and her abuser’s identity to the police:

_____Elimination of benefits under subsection (d) shall not apply to any child conceived as a result of rape or incest if the department: (1) receives a non-notarized, signed statement from the pregnant woman stating that she was a victim of rape or incest, as the case may be, and that she reported the crime, including the identity of the offender, if known, to a law enforcement agency having the requisite jurisdiction or, in the case of incest where a pregnant minor is the victim, to the county child protective service agency and stating the name of the law enforcement agency or child protective service agency to which the report was made and the date such report was made.

Aside from punishing women who have children — particularly low-income women who may not have reliable access to affordable contraception — the proposed bill perpetrates a dangerous attitude toward survivors of sexual assault. Forcing women to prove the legitimacy of their sexual assault, and warning them about the serious consequences of “crying rape” to cheat the system, puts forth the misguided assumption that victims of sexual violence are not to be believed. Furthermore, countless women choose not to report their rapists to the police because they fear repercussions from their abusers, who could threaten their lives. An estimated 54 percent of sexual assaults are not reported to the authorities.

This is not the first type of legislation of its kind. Last month, New Mexico proposed a bill that would have required women seeking childcare assistance to prove they were “forcibly raped,” although Gov. Susana Martinez (R) has requested to remove that language.


thinkprogress.org...
www.legis.state.pa.us...

So since there are common misconceptions about welfare I guess I'll get them out the way.

You CANNOT stay on welfare for as long as you want, there is a 5 year federal lifetime limit. Most states have an even short time limit than that.. In PA there is a 2 year limit and then you have to prove employment or risk being kicked off.

A lot of people on welfare have jobs, just low paying ones. The US has a higher population of working poverty than non-working poverty. Eligibly goes by income amount, not employment status.



Contrary to "Entitlement Society" Rhetoric, Over Nine-Tenths of Entitlement Benefits Go to Elderly, Disabled, or Working Households


Some conservative critics of federal social programs, including leading presidential candidates, are sounding an alarm that the United States is rapidly becoming an “entitlement society” in which social programs are undermining the work ethic and creating a large class of Americans who prefer to depend on government benefits rather than work.

A new CBPP analysis of budget and Census data, however, shows that more than 90 percent of the benefit dollars that entitlement and other mandatory programs[1] spend go to assist people who are elderly, seriously disabled, or members of working households — not to able-bodied, working-age Americans who choose not to work[/align]. (See Figure 1.) This figure has changed little in the past few years.


www.cbpp.org...

So since the 1996 welfare reform it is impossible for the stereotypical welfare queen that stays on assistance all her life and gets money for popping out kids to exist.

Now for the point of the thread....


1. Why do republican representatives keep harping on the rape topic, do they not realize it causes a public relations crisis? This law does nothing but hurt children born into poverty and women too ashamed to admit they were raped.

2. How can one claim to love children so much, enough to make abortion illegal, but care less about the child as soon as they come out the womb? Who would cut food assistance to poor children in an economy that is recovering from a recession, would it not make more sense to wait until it is recovered? Or go vote that money to go towards corporate welfare or some war?

Shouldn't saving the life of countless babies from being aborted come before the economic theory they selectively to follow?

US abortion rates plummet with free birth control


Providing free birth control to women and teens in Missouri at high risk of unplanned pregnancies led to a drastic drop in abortion rates and teenage mothers, a study published Thursday found. If the same results were replicated across the United States, free birth control could prevent 1,060,370 unplanned pregnancies and 873,250 abortions a year.

"We're already paying for unintended pregnancies," he said, noting that US taxpayers pay about $11 billion in costs associated with one million unplanned births every year.


www.google.com...

So republican legislators want to cut funding for planned parenthood who provide low cost health women’s screenings, low cost birth control and the result would mean more abortions, more dead babies, more dead women.

They also seem to oppose the portion of Obamacare which would require insurances plans to cover women’s health screenings and birth control. This would all mean FEWER abortions, less dead babies, less dead women.


The new regulations require all insurance companies to cover well-woman visits, gestational diabetes screenings, domestic and interpersonal violence counseling, FDA-approved contraception, breastfeeding supplies, HPV DNA testing, sexually transmitted infection counseling, and HIV testing without additional co-pays. The rules take effect at the following insurance renewal date on or after Wednesday.


dailycaller.com...

It’s just contradictory beliefs and actions.


edit on 30-10-2012 by 3chainz because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 01:45 PM
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Rape is an under-reported crime by a lot of studies.

Couldnt these be viewed as an incentive to report your assault?

In the process of filing a report you generally sign a statement. Two birds.

Also, shouldnt cases of incest be investigated?

I suppose this could also encourage false reporting and make for a whole lot of trouble.

You could interpret this as a huge incentive to actually report and investigate crimes if you wanted to.

I guess it depends on your politics.



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Rape is an under-reported crime by a lot of studies.

Couldnt these be viewed as an incentive to report your assault?

In the process of filing a report you generally sign a statement. Two birds.

Also, shouldnt cases of incest be investigated?

I suppose this could also encourage false reporting and make for a whole lot of trouble.

You could interpret this as a huge incentive to actually report and investigate crimes if you wanted to.

I guess it depends on your politics.


Exactly my thoughts. It would encourage reporting rapes and convicting more rapists but it might also encourage false accusations.

All in all, it is a damaging bill. When it comes to topics as horrible and sensitive as rape, it's best to just give the benefit of the doubt to the victim and simply work around that framework to make modifications.



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 02:00 PM
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reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 


You are a Man, easy to decipher by your post.
If you are ever raped, by a man, it happens, will you go nilly -willy down to your local cop shop, tell your friends and co-workers.
Please reply, maybe we can 'kinda kill 2 birds" and you will get a few quid as well.



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 02:04 PM
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Originally posted by Tw0Sides
reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 


You are a Man, easy to decipher by your post.
If you are ever raped, by a man, it happens, will you go nilly -willy down to your local cop shop, tell your friends and co-workers.
Please reply, maybe we can 'kinda kill 2 birds" and you will get a few quid as well.


If I were raped by man or woman I would report it in a heart beat.

Im not one to go around carrying mill stones of artificial "shame" imposed by a sick society. Guess that makes me strange that I dont give two #s what other people think about me. Life is too short for that kind of social crap.

No way I'd hide an assault and hold onto it to eat away at me and destroy my life year after year.



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 02:05 PM
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reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 


No, this is not an incentive to report rape. The amount you get per additional child is really nothing much from what I understand.

This bill is nothing more than the GOP's continual attack on rape victims. It is sick and I do not understand it. Why punish the child? Do they want starving kids?

They have no problem giving billions in tax cuts to corporations, or just straight up corporate welfare..but have this weird agenda against poor people, women an children.


edit on 30-10-2012 by 3chainz because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 02:05 PM
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Rape is on the top of the list as one of the worst offenses that can be commited. It is a horrid, horrid event. I want to make sure nobody thinks I am defending rape.

I do not know the laws in penn, but some states have disclosure clauses. In order for a mother to receive benefits, the state wants the name of the father. That allows the state to go after the man for child support. Perhaps too many women say "I was raped", rather than give up the fathers name. I can see this type of law being used to counter that. Is there a way to see the percentage of women on welfare in Penn that claim the child is a product of rape?

As far as this having an effect on low income women because they do not have access to affordable contraception. I call that fornicating bovine feces. A women that has 20 billion in the bank has access to the same affordable contraception as a 16 year old with no job. Keep your legs closed. ITS FREE



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 02:07 PM
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Originally posted by 3chainz

No, this is not an incentive to report rape. The amount you get per additional child is really nothing much from what I understand.

This bill is nothing more than the GOP's continual attack on rape victims. It is sick and I do not understand it. Why punish the child? Do they want starving kids?


You see the contradicting statements there?

So it isnt worth feeding your kid to report an assault on your person?

Dont get me wrong. The Republicans are all sorts of crazy when it comes to anything involving genitalia. Certifiably nutty. But if we're going to attack this bill shouldnt it be for real, tangible reasons? Not just because we hate elephants?



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 02:11 PM
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Originally posted by thisguyrighthere


]If I were raped by man or woman I would report it in a heart beat.


Easy to say if you have not walked a mile in a rape victims shoes. It isn't just a matter of reporting it. What you endure after reporting a rape is like being raped all over again. Just ask anyone who's been through it.



No way I'd hide an assault and hold onto it to eat away at me and destroy my life year after year.


Guess what? Even after reporting it, it still destroys your life year after year.

Honest to God, I often wonder if people think before they put their fingers to a keyboard on this site!
edit on 30-10-2012 by Sissel because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 02:12 PM
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Originally posted by thisguyrighthere

If I were raped by man or woman I would report it in a heart beat.
Thx for quick reply, and truthfulness.
As for the OP , most rapes do get reported, but not all. I bet , within your small social circle, there are a few people that you know, that would NOT report it.
There is a Shame attached to Rape, and A lot of People are not like you, choose not to expose the Shame.
If you think attaching a Monetary Value to the Shame will change that, or for that matter, is worth that, we will have to agree to disagree.
I had a female friend experience this Shame, and regardless of my coaxing... not reported.
So I supported her the best I could.
This is not just another Talking Point in Elections, this is peoples lives.
This is wrong.



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 02:13 PM
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reply to post by Sissel
 


Of course its always with you.

Ever been in therapy or treatment?

Just bottling something up and pretending it didnt happen makes it worse. Much, much worse.

A victim has to move forward to heal. A direction which includes reporting, line ups, statements, testimony, trials, etc...



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 02:14 PM
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reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 



You see the contradicting statements there?


The whole point is that the GOP has no real reason to do this. The amount given per additional children is NOT MUCH. All non-rape babies are being punished, as well with the real rape babies with ashamed mothers.

Do they want children to go hungry? We are in a down economy, food pantries go empty very fast, etc.


If I were raped by man or woman I would report it in a heart beat.


You have no clue what you would do. A lot of people go into a state of mental shock and their life is ruined.

Society also tends to blame the women a lot. If you're a hot chick and you wear a short skirt you are somehow asking to get raped. Or the girl gets blamed because she drank too much and passed out....

There are a multitude of reasons why women wouldn't report the rape...

Would you a rape kit done with a doctor probing you

right after having one of your holes torn open?

edit on 30-10-2012 by 3chainz because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 02:15 PM
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Okay, I'm not really all that good at interpreting political mumbo jumbo, so please correct me if I am not understanding this. If you are receiving welfare benefits in the state of Pennsylvania you are discouraged from having even MORE children that you cannot afford to take care of by yourself by threat of reducing your benefits. An exception will be made in cases of legally reported rape or incest. Therefore a recipient cannot just claim she was raped to protect the father from legal responsibility for the child. Is this correct?



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 02:16 PM
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Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
reply to post by Sissel
 


Of course its always with you.

Ever been in therapy or treatment?

Just bottling something up and pretending it didnt happen makes it worse. Much, much worse.

A victim has to move forward to heal. A direction which includes reporting, line ups, statements, testimony, trials, etc...


Try going through a rape kit, and all the other on top of it. What this bill will do is only suppress people with coming forward about being raped.

It isn't just enough to have to go through all of the above, and then have to relive it to get benefits on top of that, for a child you decide to keep?

Ridiculous.



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 02:21 PM
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Originally posted by 3chainz
reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 



You see the contradicting statements there?


The whole point is that the GOP has no real reason to do this. The amount given per additional children is NOT MUCH.


What is the reason they are claiming? Corruption? Saving money? Increase reporting?



If I were raped by man or woman I would report it in a heart beat.


You have no clue what you would do. A lot of people go into a state of mental shock and their life is ruined.


You're right. What I do know is I havent experienced shame since grade school before realizing it was all psychosocial bull#. I dont expect I would suddenly revert back 40 years into a child with no self esteem.


Society also tends to blame the women a lot. If you're a hot chick and you wear a short skirt you are somehow asking to get raped. Or the girl gets blamed because she drank too much and passed out....


As society should. This notion of never blaming the victim allows more people to be victims. If I went out to some hardcore gay club in whatever trendy clothing suits the scene and got black out drunk should I not admit to myself that I made a bad decision? If I stroll through Harlem ina Klan hood can I not be blamed for behaving a little recklessly?

Nobody deserves to be assaulted. Ever. But irresponsible or immature people put themselves in a position to be victimized over and over.

Situational awareness is key to personal safety. Wandering with some people you hardly know into a bar you've never been in and consuming copious amounts of spirits is irresponsible and unsafe.



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 02:23 PM
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reply to post by littled16
 


It's a bill punishing women for actually keeping their rape babies. They have to provide paperwork to strangers at the welfare office about how they were raped. This will induce PTSD and embarrassment for the mother.

It will also make legit rape babies which the mother did not report go hungry, along with all the other non-rape babies.

All this bill will do is encourage abortions.



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 02:26 PM
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Originally posted by Sissel

It isn't just enough to have to go through all of the above, and then have to relive it to get benefits on top of that, for a child you decide to keep?




There's nothing to relive. Once you've made your report and signed a statement you qualify under the bill.

Or does it ask you do this every year or something?



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 02:28 PM
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It is a sick crime and the fascination with it by some people is absolutely appalling. I cannot fathom the need for this to be an ongoing topic of discussion...it makes no sense whatsoever. I do not want to hear about the abortion topic, it was solved years ago. I believe and will always believe that the choice to do this is between a woman, her family, her doctor and whatever God she prays to. It is none of my business, it is none of YOUR business and it damn sure isn't the business of big Government. The woman and those surrounding her will have to answer to God one day and that is their burden, not mine.

Which brings me to another hypocrisy. The GOP touts that they are for small Government yet they sure do create a bunch of bureaucracy to invade on people's private life in the name of "morality" or "religion". I'm quite sick of it actually. Small Gov? I don't think so.

I am a Libertarian, we actually DO believe in small Gav and little to know invasion of privacy. I do not care what you do with your body. Do drugs, be a prostitute drink yourself to a stupor...I DO NOT CARE! It is none of my business and it is no one else's either.

Maybe the GOP likes to watch forced sex porn and have rape fantasies as they seem absolutely obsessed with it...maybe that is their idea of "manly" power...who knows, but the more it comes up, the weirder and creepier the whole party appears to be.
edit on 10/30/2012 by Jeremiah65 because: (no reason given)

edit on 10/30/2012 by Jeremiah65 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 02:28 PM
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Originally posted by 3chainz
reply to post by littled16
 


It's a bill punishing women for actually keeping their rape babies. They have to provide paperwork to strangers at the welfare office about how they were raped. This will induce PTSD and embarrassment for the mother.

It will also make legit rape babies which the mother did not report go hungry, along with all the other non-rape babies.

All this bill will do is encourage abortions.


No it will not. Abortions will be illegal if some get their way. It seems to me this bill is saying if you were not raped you will not get benefits. So we will not give you contraceptives or abortions( those against Healthcare Act) and if you have the baby it better be rape and well documented or you will not get benefits, It that the jist of it? If so then I think we can expect some women to just abandon their kids.
edit on 30-10-2012 by FreebirdGirl because: just cause



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 02:30 PM
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Originally posted by thisguyrighthere

As society should. This notion of never blaming the victim allows more people to be victims. If I went out to some hardcore gay club in whatever trendy clothing suits the scene and got black out drunk should I not admit to myself that I made a bad decision? If I stroll through Harlem ina Klan hood can I not be blamed for behaving a little recklessly?


I do not have the words to explain how mush this disgusts me. There should NEVER be an excuse. To allow any person a defense for commiting rape is mind rending to me. To try to even see your point causes my mind to reject the thought.



Nobody deserves to be assaulted. Ever.


I agree with this part 100%




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