Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
Only if you think all of Italy is supposed to be holy

Since the statues under consideration are not thought to be holy then it is an apt analogy. Christianity and Judaism doesn't require that another cultures icons and idols be destroyed. It merely requires that they not be worshipped as icons and idols.

But we can be sure they were erected to commemorate the gods of Egypt.

Its probable that some of those statues were infact worshipped as idols, but certainly not every statue of a god is worshipped as such. But yes, for the purposes of discussion, these things are indeed 'idols'yes, I see the point. Regardless, they are not worshipped as idols and the vatican doesn't have to destroy them any more than a christian can't go to a museum that has other idols.

has not defended the first commandment of this faith.

It worships no other god but god. The commandment is held.

And for your information, they are artifacts that were removed from Egypt by Roman conquerors which had nothing to do with preservation

And they came into the posession of the vatican and the vatican has preserved them thru time.

Does your government keep secrets from you, secrets that you will never learn?

Undoubtedly. But that hardly means that I can make up what those secrets are and be rationally justified.

bobdylan
Lest we forget that it is within a religions interest to hide and supress anything that disagrees with their version of history

Its in their interests to destroy it, not to diligently preserve it for millenia.

Lots of Artifacts, relics and scriptures will be held in the Vatican Nygdan but why destroy the evidence when you know it will never see the light of day?!!

Why not preserve it becuase who knows what the future may bring, one day you may require that which you have destroyed.

Originally posted by BobDylan
Lots of Artifacts, relics and scriptures will be held in the Vatican Nygdan but why destroy the evidence when you know it will never see the light of day?!!

Why save it if it can destroy your power base? And the vatican can't defend itself from an invading army that can break into the records. Why save it at all?

one day you may require that which you have destroyed.

Why would the vatican require a bunch of stuff that reveals them to be corrupt, evil, anti-god power mongers? The earyl church, catholic and non catholic, obviously didn't have a problem destroying and burning very useful pagan texts and librabries, but we are supposed ot beleive that they preserve the very artifacts of their own undoing?

All i will say on this topic is, we will never find out whats in that libary. Also what ever is in there, is the closest thing to truth that there is.

there's a hopi legend that says in the beginning, before mankind spread out across the world, God gave each group part of a stone tablet....each one had instructions as to how to live for that group. Susposedly, when the Dehli Lama (God, I don't know how to spell today, sorry!!), meet with the hopi elders, they compared two parts of this stone tablet.

Maybe the vatican is hiding their stone tablet as long as they can......since well, it's reallly quite obvious that some of us haven't followed the instructions that were originally given...

to be opened in 2010, two years before the great 2012.....ummm.....who knows....


I like the idea that it is satan though, really........
although I would then wonder if they didn't open it a little early.....he seems to be operating just fine in this day and age.

OK, it must be the original writings of Jesus on clay tablets...I'll check back in 5 years and see if I won the prize.

Ok, try this one - I'm far from a theologian (indeed, I am entirely, and happily bereft of faith), so it might be complete rubbish. I should also say at the start, that the whole thing relies entirely upon two assumptions, and a failure of either throws the whole idea into the bin. Anyway, here goes. ...

(Assumption one).
That it actually exists - but if so, then:

It contains the fifth seal referred to in Revelations 6:9, and that once opened, it begins the final stage, of The End of Days.

Revelations says:

"6:9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been killed for the Word of God, and for the testimony of the Lamb which they had.

6:10 They cried with a loud voice, saying, "How long, Master, the holy and true, until you judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?"

6:11 A long white robe was given to each of them. They were told that they should rest yet for a while, until their fellow servants and their brothers, who would also be killed even as they were, should complete their course."

(Assumption two).
If we accept the interpretation that the first four seals are describing a time when man is in a state before the rapture, where we have already been too long beset by tyranny, war, famine and death (as signified by the 'four horsemen'), and that time is 'now', then the fifth seal is the one where we ask for intercession and judgement, in effect we commission the rapture at this point, and so doing bring about the apocalypse.

2010 was chosen as the phrase "rest for a while" in 6:11 relates to a period of two years, which would tie in rather nicely with the "Mayan 2012 - end of the world" theorists too (or is that err, just a bit too glib ? ).

Random theory aside and if it's even partly true: By going on the period in which it was said to have been sealed, and the mention of the Cathars I'd suggest it contains something that would have caused significant controversy and diplomatic damage to the Catholic Church: the impact of which would only have been risk managed down to an acceptable level, by the simple expedient of the passing of time - maybe something unwelcome that brought about the end of the Cathars and began the end of the Templar movement ? Something related to the Cult of the Black Madonna maybe ?

It is intriguing nevertheless ...

The Vatican is reputed to have the largest library of astrological texts in the world. I imagine that many 'lost books' from the Library at Alexandria are there, also.

[edit on 15-3-2005 by Agent Orange]

Originally posted by Nygdan
Its probable that some of those statues were infact worshipped as idols, but certainly not every statue of a god is worshipped as such. But yes, for the purposes of discussion, these things are indeed 'idols'yes, I see the point. Regardless, they are not worshipped as idols and the vatican doesn't have to destroy them any more than a christian can't go to a museum that has other idols.

has not defended the first commandment of this faith.

It worships no other god but god. The commandment is held.

The RCC declared all religious teachings, doctrines or writings not in accordance with their Canon to be heresies, and strictly forbade their dissemination in any fashion. Hence, since they are blasphemous, so too would everything else relating to them, including idols. But these Egyptian icons are being displayed in what the RCC considers to be their holy city.

Obviously, the RCC itself upholds the religious aspect of artistic renderings of its icons to drive the point home to the following that those depicted in same are real, otherwise they would have no reason to sanction and promulgate the saints, angels, Jesus, Mary and God as evidence of the religion. If you agree with that statement, Nygdan, then you must also agree that the iconography of other religions is because they are real, and for the RCC to display these other deities in any of its properties, is to assign the reality of those deities as well. Do you agree with all of this, Nygdan?

Now if you respond , I would like you to focus on the points I have stated, particularly the above paragraph, and not go off on a tangent.



[edit on 3/15/05 by SomewhereinBetween]

Egyptian icons are being displayed in what the RCC considers to be their holy city

Exactly, so the Alexandria stuff is probably there too! There are probably many texts from other traditions, considered blasphemous, that instead of being burned, were saved up.

Of spiders and dust mites. That's just my guess though. Microbiologists prepare! Don't forget your mask. We've learned what happened with old egyptian tombs. Whatever is in there, we'll see it on E-bay in about a week.


WTB Fungi Tunic! PST. <----- If anyone gets that joke, I'll be thoroughly impressed.

Originally posted by Agent Orange

Egyptian icons are being displayed in what the RCC considers to be their holy city

Exactly, so the Alexandria stuff is probably there too! There are probably many texts from other traditions, considered blasphemous, that instead of being burned, were saved up.

I have no doubt that some from the libraries of Egypt are there, not everything from Alexandria unfortunately, but enough. Every Roman emperor beginning with Vitellius in Israel and Constantine in Rome, looted and hauled off to Constantinople and Rome, what could be found.

And they did not actually burn everything they considered heresy either

The gratitude of the public researchers, I am sure, would be tremendous. The RCC would generate major +ve p.r. from it. And I bet their membership rolls would even swell from the rise in their general popularity level. I also hope that they don't destroy any texts from now on, whether they are for or against the content.

Nygdan, you,ve got to understand that, just as I said earlier here, it's not because the Church was lying to people in order in order to have more power that they will necessarly eliminate all artifacts and documents which would revel the truth behind their lies. Any persons taht have a minimum of respect for Knowledge and History would see such act as an unforgivable crime to humanity... even the most inhumane despot would (so was Innocent III).

The people in the Church might have been often elitist and despotic with the masses, but they surely had a tradition of preservating knowledge instead of trashing it like the most belligerant, stupid gorillas among us would do (just look at how the US government has destroyed the Babylonians ruins in Iraq in the two last invasions... but did the Roman Church ever had Teotihuacan razed to the ground?).

I do not have a source for this that is a living being, but in trance was told it was the pillages of the great Alexandian temple fires..as they coveted the Egyptians, though we trying to destroy them at the same time.
The Pope's personal bathtub is ornately engraved with all the astroolgical signs and is a work of art.

I'd be so elated to be allowed to view some of the Vaticans mostly hidden or not open to the public douments that I wouldn't know what to do with myself. So many good theories here, hard to say what I'd go with, but Texts from the Alexandria Library is possible as well as unnauthorized texts or apostles. Lost religious documents from around the world. Or even artifacts from lost civilizations that have disappeared with little to no trace.


BTW

Originally posted by saint4God
WTB Fungi Tunic! PST. <----- If anyone gets that joke, I'll be thoroughly impressed.

WTS Fungi Tunic at second Torch. LOL, Been ages I'm thinking about getting into EQ2 I have friends on Unrest.

Phae

I'd understand if certain books are forbidden or whatever, but how about at least a list or idea as to why or what they contain.

I think that raises a bunch of eyebrows when they just ban books like that.

ah but you must keep in mind that many of these books could be considered dangerous to the untrained. they would not want to loose any possible vital knowlege so they would not destroy them. you must study your enemys so that you will be able to both attack and defend against them. this is why they would be kept hidden. the same can be said for artifacts that they may hold.

remember that most euopean cities are built upon older cities. under the streets are catacombs that would be amazing to see in their own right. add to that excavations that could have been carried out in secret. i would love a chance to get into the hidden chmbers. there may be some truely amazeing things hidden within. things taken over the centuries and hoarded.