Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by schuyler
So you would rather see a mathematical formula for heaven than experience it? Ok i see.
I'm not sure you do, but yes. One. More. Time.
The religions of the world think they see a vision of Heaven, of Reality. They look through the window with their vision impaired and they come back
with stories. They say that Jesus died for our sins and that the ONLY way to Heaven is through accepting Him as your personal Lord & Savior. Or they
say that Mohammed ascended to heaven WITH HIS HORSE from the temple mount. Or they say that human sacrifice is necessary to appease the gods. They'll
say the Earth was made by God in 4004 BC on October 23rd at 9:00 in the morning. Or they'll say that it is necessary to burn witches at the stake. And
adherents of these religions will fight for their beliefs, so much so that they are responsible for killing, murdering millions and millions of
Now science has been around a long time. The Greeks, the Persians, the Egyptians, etc. all had a concept of science, but it was not until the
Renaissance that science finally began to break through the tyranny of the Church and reject such notions that the Earth was 6,000 years old or even
that Jesus existed at all. Science rejected ALL religious truths in favior of the scientific method which used verfiable, repeatable observation to
come up with Reality. And science has made remarkable strides in terms of figuring out Reality. Indeed, it's gotten a bit strange with quarks and
strings and branes and all manner of scientific achievement. But science itself can get out of hand as atheists refuse to see any worth in the
individual, so science in the guise of weapons systems, nazis, and totalitarian regimes has been responsible for killing, murdering millions and
millions of people.
Not a very good record for religion. Not a very good record for science. Religion does not reject science entirely, but science does reject religion
entirely. Yet we continue to have accounts from able-bodied people that there IS a "Heaven," and "Other Side," a "place" that appears to harbor "souls
of the dead." PLEASE READ MY OPENING POST! ALL these accounts are personal, anecdotal, subjective, often contradictory, but still with a certain
sameness that would suggest there is something to these accounts.
By and large, with a few notable exceptions, science rejects these accounts and will even go to twisted gyrations to explain them as the result of
brain emitted chemicals. This is because science rejects the notion of Heaven intrinsically. It can't possibly exist. And as physicists like Brian
Greene say, "They see no evidence" despite working from the Planck Length to Universe-sized chunks.
NOW, I happen to believe that "Heaven" or "The Other Side" DOES exist because I believe many of these anecdotal accounts. I believe the children. I DO
NOT believe the Christians who come back from an NDE and say, "I saw Jesus" or "I saw hell" because I believe their experiences were influenced by
their pre-existing beliefs.
So on the one hand we have a growing number of atheists who believe the whole religious stuff is crapola combined with a growing number of
fundamentalists who will believe anything they're told.
This is not a good thing.
My belief is that if we are to advance at all, the next big breakthrough is essentially to "find Heaven." If we can find and be able to communicate
between these two realms, whatever is "the Other Side" and what we know of as Reality, then the changes to our species would be profound. We would
understand much more clearly what comes next. We would understand that all our in-fighting is for naught. We would understand that there's more to
consciousness than just the flesh. And just maybe we could answer some pretty compelling questions about aliens, UFOs, and inter-dimensional travel.
If we don't do that, then we're going to slip down back into the mud. I personally do not want to see that happen. I hope we are not compelled to do
that by the nature of reality. I hope we have control of our destiny. And to do all that we need science to find Heaven, complete with equations.
And THAT'S why running to the beach to gaze at the skies and "experience Heaven" does not cut it. It's not good enough. If that's what satisfies you,
fine. Obviously, you will not be part of the solution here.
At least allow the rest of us to explore it without your poetry and expressing your "feelings." Those are not the point of this thread. Please express
Please don't make me explain this again.
edit on 11/2/2012 by schuyler because: (no reason given)