Need Help Finding Heaven - Seriously

page: 1
8
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join

posted on Oct, 29 2012 @ 01:07 PM
link   
I would like some serious help “finding Heaven.” I suppose I should be a little less dramatic and say “finding the other side” or some other watered-down phrase, but the idea still stands. I do not mean to involve any kind of organized religion or philosophy. I doubt Jesus ascended to heaven. I know the Earth wasn’t “made” in 4004 BC. I accept evolution completely. I do not believe in any present-day concept of “God,” but I leave the door open only as much as Richard Dawkins does. And I’m not particularly interested in the atheist/Deist argument because I think it is simplistic.

I’ve come to believe an “other side” exists. The evidence is strictly anecdotal and personal. It involves perfectly normal people having NDEs and OBEs. It involves young children remembering past lives in the village down the road. The literature includes Ian Stevenson’s 20 Cases suggestive of reincarnation and Raymond Moody’s Life after Life. It even includes, somewhat reluctantly and for inspiration only, Jane Roberts' Seth Books. But it DOESN’T include Sean David Morton or Sylvia Browne or your local Ouija Board channeler.

I’m talking strictly nuts and bolts here. Scientific. Subject to the scientific method. Provable. No politics. Reductionist.

Brian Greene writes books on physics without the equations. They include The Elegant Universe, The Fabric of the Cosmos, and his latest, The Hidden Reality. He writes of Multiverses, hidden dimensions, Superstring Theory, M-Theory, Branes—all of modern physics, from the tiniest level of strings and the Planck Constant to Universes of Universes. He, like most physicists, is a reductionist. He says (and this is a paraphrase),

“It’s not that I’m against the idea of Heaven; it’s just that I can’t find any evidence that it exists.”

String Theory these days is just as prominent as the Theory of Relativity. And like all modern theories in physics, each new one does not disprove the older ones; it incorporates them. Thus Quantum Mechanics absorbs Newtonian Mechanics. And String Theory incorporates Quantum Mechanics and gravity and Relativity. Even though we now have elastic strings to play with, atoms are still there. And although we can see and manipulate atoms these days, we’re not going to be able to see strings anytime soon. They are just too small. It would take a “Hadron Collider” the size of the galaxy to pull it off. So they will remain in the equations for now.

For purposes of this thread, the question is, WHERE is the other side? Scientifically we’re obviously digging in the wrong place. So how can we resolve this issue scientifically? I’m not interested in Bible quotes or atheistic rants, but in plausible scenarios that incorporate present-day scientific progress, not ignore it.

It’s out there somewhere, so where is it?
edit on 10/29/2012 by schuyler because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 29 2012 @ 01:12 PM
link   
I think you're thinking too linearly. The kingdom of heaven is supposed to be everywhere isn't it? You're trying to look at your own eyeballs. Can't be done.



posted on Oct, 29 2012 @ 01:16 PM
link   
reply to post by schuyler
 


The other side isn't out there it's where you are.
You are the mystery...



posted on Oct, 29 2012 @ 01:16 PM
link   
reply to post by schuyler
 

my believe is, when you dream, you are closest to some call heaven or hell. what makes you feel is the "force" or "authority" which is able to "bring" you to heaven. this "force" also creates your dreams, like a holo-deck. is this force "the" life-force or is it even you ?



posted on Oct, 29 2012 @ 01:16 PM
link   

Originally posted by ZeroReady
I think you're thinking too linearly. The kingdom of heaven is supposed to be everywhere isn't it? You're trying to look at your own eyeballs. Can't be done.


I think you turn right. i just don't know where.



posted on Oct, 29 2012 @ 01:22 PM
link   
reply to post by schuyler
 


Honestly i think the Emerald tablets explain things very nicely Takes a bit but read them all.

www.crystalinks.com...


Desireth thou to know the deep, hidden secret? Look in thy heart where the knowledge is bound. Know that in thee the secret is hidden, the source of all life and the source of all death.
edit on 29-10-2012 by Char-Lee because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 29 2012 @ 01:24 PM
link   
The after-life is defined by "realms" and "heaven" is just another exclusive club.

In that sense, you can "join a club" and be "invited" into thier "after-realm" or "go it alone", wandering through the alleyways of eternity.
edit on 29-10-2012 by SystemResistor because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 29 2012 @ 01:30 PM
link   
Second star to the right and straight on till morning.....

Seriously though, if you want to know these answers, don't ask experts, ask a four or five year old with wise eyes. She will have all your answers, but ask her quick before she becomes jaded.



posted on Oct, 29 2012 @ 01:30 PM
link   
Yahushua is coming to Earth to reign...don't worry about ascending into heaven...bodies of the redeemed are made to dwell here with Him in the future.

Hence, after Judgement Day, Heaven is coming to Earth.



posted on Oct, 29 2012 @ 01:34 PM
link   
reply to post by schuyler
 


Watch this video to see someone stuggling to find heaven and watch as she finds it.
youtu.be...



posted on Oct, 29 2012 @ 01:40 PM
link   
reply to post by schuyler
 


Because it is limited to methodological naturalism, science not only has nothing to say about "heaven", it intentionally cannot have anything to say about it. The continued existence of life, after death (which is, scientifically, the ending of life,) cannot be viewed in anything other than a supernatural perspective, so the answer to your question cannot be limited to methodological naturalism (science.)

"Multiverses", quantum phenomenon and the like seem, to me, to simply be the posturing of those who want to believe in an afterlife, but are unwilling to give up the constraints of methodological naturalism in order to allow for it.



posted on Oct, 29 2012 @ 01:53 PM
link   
Non existence (no thingness) is the 'other side'.

youtu.be...
edit on 29-10-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 29 2012 @ 02:01 PM
link   
The "Other side" sleeps inside of you, simply close your eyes to see the eternal exist's inside of you. And you exist inside of it. "Come close your eyes, wake yourself from these dreams. Come close your eyes at last and wake yourself from evil dreams."



May all beings be Enlightened.
May all beings be Enlightened.
May all beings be Enlightened.
edit on 29-10-2012 by ExpansiveMind because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 29 2012 @ 02:10 PM
link   
Heaven is a state of mind. It's hard to describe, which is why it's always done in parables. But it's what happens when you take that "Love your neighbor" command seriously.

I will share a quote from William Ernest Hocking (emphasis mine):



Love and sympathy are the activity of the idea. And in their exercise, the idea is enlarged. The lover widens his experience as the non-lover cannot. He adds to the mass of his idea-world, and acquires thereby enhanced power to appreciate all things. Is not this the sufficient solution of that long-standing difficulty between 'egoism and altruism?' The altruist alone can accumulate that treasure of idea through which all things must be enjoyed that are enjoyed. No one has, or can have, any 'egoistic' satisfaction except as a consequence of so much effective love of reality as there is in him by birth or acquisition.


Hocking is basically saying that by practicing love, you experience more, and by experiencing more, you open yourself up to new joys and pleasures (and pains) that you never knew or understood.

A simple, somewhat trivial, example for me is in sports. I grew up hating them, because of bad experiences with my peers. I started getting into them in my 20s, and experienced new things: the joy of a hard-fought, miserable game that you finally win, being one of them. This example isn't even really about love, but the idea is that by becoming connected with others, you broaden your horizons, you make the experiences of others your own, and join in the fun of being alive.

I was watching a World War II special once, and somebody they were interviewing said something which struck me. He said that never in his life has he had friends like those who were in his company in battle. Everything worth having is earned, and that guy earned some profound intimate friendship on a level which I will probably never see.

Remember that Jesus Himself said, "The Kingdom of Heaven is within/among you." The original language was a pun on "within" and "among", which is perfect. Heaven is an inner state of mind, but it's also the secret society of those around you whose hearts are in the right place and who struggle daily to keep them there. Doing this properly does require giving up your current unrealistic fantasies, and finding your real needs, and suffering (hence all those metaphors about giving up everything you own, taking up your cross, etc.), but promises much greater rewards (hence that stuff about giving up your mother to find a whole bunch more mothers, etc.)

I know this wasn't quite the answer you're looking for. You might already know all this and be way ahead of me here. But it's what I understand "heaven" to mean, so I shared.

You were looking for stuff on the afterlife. But start down this road, and your ideas on the afterlife will evolve too. I've slowly moved from not paying any notice to death because it's simply lights-out, to wanting to make sure I die with a halfway-tolerable conscience.

edit on 29-10-2012 by NewlyAwakened because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 29 2012 @ 02:11 PM
link   
I have been asking the same questions as you OP. I have spent years, trying to find an answer and I have looked from the point of view of countless religions, known and disgarded, science, alchemy you name it.

The best advice I can give you is, stop now. Stop looking for answers that you can not find in this life time. Enjoy your life, love the people around and recieve love from them. Help those you can, you can not save the whole world, but you can make your small corner of the world a little bit better.
Dont waste time falling into this maze of questions leading to more questions, it wont do you any good.

Im as far away from an answer as I was when I started asking these questions.

Dont lose time you could have spent enjoying your life and those you love.

You will not find the afterlife untill you die, trust me.
edit on 29-10-2012 by needlenight because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 29 2012 @ 02:14 PM
link   
For thousands of years people have sought after the kingdom of heaven, and have never found it.

When you try to find it, you are bombarded by philosophy, religion, and imagination.

Many people, including myself, have a very unique idea on what heaven is - as a Christian I beleive it is a kingdom that has been created by God for the spirtis of the good after they die.

Other religions think it is a realm of eternal bliss and energetic love.

In a nutshell, you are asking to find a place that doesn't exist in the physical realm as we know it.

The brains we focus our spiritual conciousness though drasticly limits our conciousness - and doesn't allow us to see the higher realms.

The purpose for being on earth is to advance our spiritual nature to that of the divine nature, and if we were able to see the greater realms it would serve as a henderance on our spiritual development.

There can be no free will without the presence of choice - which is usually an evil choice (bad), or a divine choice (good).

So if you truly seek to find the kingdom of heaven, you will be looking for a long time.

In this body, you cannot see the kingdom, but only feel it. Intiuition is a real thing, and is our connection with the higher places of existance.



posted on Oct, 29 2012 @ 02:23 PM
link   
Hello Schuyler.
My thoughts on this subject are simply..that we create our own reality, even after death.
In each religion, philosophy or dogma..each person "sees" whatever belief they hold, even subconsciously.
Ever wonder how some can walk blindly around seeing all good in the world or all evil?To me same principal.
In everyone our life experience creates the "afterlife" for us and us alone.
Look around you. EVERYTHING came from a single thought. Everything. The more people there are that share a thought the more real it becomes.But to me, the single thing that stands out is that heaven is not a place. It is a state of being in time (not linear time as man's creation.)
Now this is obviously just my theory as nobody can prove scientifically that which you seek. Perhaps it just may spark a seed of contemplation.
edit on 29-10-2012 by AccessDenied because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 29 2012 @ 02:30 PM
link   
reply to post by schuyler
 


schuyler, when you look into the cosmos consider a % of it until your soul-spirit-internal energy frequency rises enough from your deeds/activities/experiences here is hidden from you for ummm observation reasons
Now consider thru more experiences in life and death within existence you began to get more % data until you are ready to see what you deserve to see. Now think of those who don't even consider this and try to make heaven on EA*RTH through financial gain or power inheritance and how they may take longer periods to even detect what is already near them/you due to their soul-spirit-internal energy frequency only being focused on what they see w/o a third eye.. With that I say be patient some things come with more experiences in life and death within existence so do your best as a Creator Creation to be part of the solutions and not issues. I guess I am saying you are not as far from the source as you may feel schuyler.


NAMASTE
LOVE LIGHT ETERNIA*******
edit on 10/29/12 by Ophiuchus 13 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 29 2012 @ 02:43 PM
link   
reply to post by schuyler
 
Hello Schuyler, it’s possible we’ve both read many of the same articles and authors and arrived at similar questions.

Not always, just from time to time, I entertain the idea that this reality is one of many that are layered, entwined and inter-meshed. It seems that human consciousness might just exist in different forms at the same time as we exist here and now. Perhaps our consciousness exists like the fixed point of the head of a needle and our experiences are the thread being drawn through the eye? Yeah, it sounds terribly pseudo and it’s not a contention I’m able to defend or would even try to.

Like you, I’ve arrived at these questions through personal experiences and through reading the papers of reasonable NDE researchers and some of the works of Gurney and early SPR publications. Naturally, such pursuits have been off-set by reading sceptical counter-arguments as well.

The sum total of my reflections combined with those of other researchers has not led me to believe in, or suspect, the existence of heaven. Perhaps naively, I’m not sure if the concept of a final destination like heaven even appeals to me - it holds no logical integrity as a concept in my thoughts. For religious and spiritual equality’s sake, none of the other ‘heavenly’ concepts make sense to me either.

If there’s more to our existence than meets the material eye, I feel the processes of evolution would still apply and this means there can be no plateau, end-point or final destination.



posted on Oct, 29 2012 @ 02:49 PM
link   
I suggest you read Robert Monroe's Journeys Out of the Body. One of the things I like about this book is the no nonsense approach. He has 2 other books but the third book seems "watered down" and it is claimed that the publisher would not put it out without some serious editing.





new topics
top topics
 
8
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join