ATS: Television's Distress Signal Picked up by Satellite

A TV set that calls for help if you abuse it? Cool!

An instinct for self-preservation is a rather novel thing to design into a common household appliance.

I wonder what else it can do? It would probably be wise to lock up the jewelry, money and liquor, in case the TV has a bad attitude chip.

Oh my god! I am in my 50.s & don,t work any more. Missus works, kids at high school. I am home alone through the day. The devils eyeball is my last pleasure & now i can,t even turn that on. Oh for the good old days of World War 2. Please don,t tell me they are tracking me through the radio or it will be down to reading Mills & Boon books.

What likley has happened in this scenario is that some curcuit in the televeision somehow became unshielded. The caseing around electronics not only provides a pretty looking package but it also sheilds frequencys emitted by the electronics within. A few years back there where some articles about canadian hackers stealing sattelite signals and the devices being used where broadcasting distress signals. In the cases in canada the hackers where using a device that was inserted into the sat reciever and this device had no external covering , since it lacked an external covering it had no sheilding and as a result it allowed signals to be broadcast from it. Oddly enough the signals being broadcast just happened to be on the distress frequency, and when i say signals where broadcast i dont mean tv signals or anything a human could visually hear or see, i mean a signal basically think of it in these terms. You are using your cordless phone and you notice you can faintly hear a buzzing sound , that is a signal that is bleeding over into the frequency your cordless phone uses. This guys tv was making a buzz like a cordless phone but this time it was making the buzzing sound on a restricted distress frequency.

All electronic devices radiate noise.
Although in the signal processing section (tuner) absolutely does not have the capacity or power to radiate hardly anything measurable. In the event of shielding failure, the only real symptom will be poor reception or signal processing, as external noise will possibly effect the pll circuits. But no transmissions there.

The scan of the electron beam is normally created by the magnetic influences of the yoke (just a coil). This coil basically will only radiate magnetic interferences in trhe frequencies of vertical and horizontal circuits.
No signal that can be of use here, that could transmit anything measurable beyond a couple of feet as unintentional radiation.

Basically the set circuits are very limited in what noise it could radiate that would bleed into the spectrum detected.

If it did happen as described, it was likely due to leakage in the flyback which can generate rf that will radiate to a larger degree. If there was some leakage, it could have been corona or arching to a ground plane somewhere. It is possible that a harmonic of this leakage produced the right frequency of radiation to be noise. This is what was probably picked up by the satellite.

Interesting though, that this was ongoing thru time, indicating the set owner was not aware of any circuit failure in the set, implying that it had very little if any circuit failure. All color sets have protection circuits in them that shut the set down if current or HV is out of tolerance for the preset values. Thise circuits rarely fail as they are a protection device.

And a note, the flyback normally generates as much as 35,000 volts that will knock your socks off. The picture tube can store many thousands of residual voltage even when off for awhile, that can discharge by arching when you just get too close, you dont even have to touch the anode on the crt.

As stated above, if you think your tv may be spying on, you have no need to be inside any tv or monitor. They dont spy, and you can get hurt. Period.

And keep in mind, there are MUCH MORE other types of devices that are much more likely to radiate at a detectable power level, that make this set look like a cheap walkie talkie. I am having alot of trouble thinking that this happened on it's own without other outside influence of some type.

I am glad to see there are some others out there that know something about electronics, so I won�t feel alone whenever this comes up, which it seems to do with some frequency�

Originally posted by Psychoses
I don't know much about electronics so bear with me.

The T.V receives a signal and projects the image so we can see it. I think thats right?

So if the T.V is a receiver, how can it transmit a signal back out(An international distress signal of all things) if it wasn't designed to do that?

To put it in really basic layman�s terms, without going into detail, all Alternating Current devices operate at a certain frequency. You may have heard your household current referred to as 60 cycle. What that means is that the generator that is producing the A/C current is spinning at 60 cycles per second making a sine wave. Frequency is the speed at which the sine waves pass a point per second, and the FCC controls what is transmitted at what speed through the airwaves. Like, FM, which means Frequency Modulation, for example.

There are circuits that modify that frequency in appliances, like inductors and capacitors. Alternating Current also makes RF or Radio Frequency interference because it radiates out from the appliance. If you have ever had static on your TV while running your electric shaver, you have seen this effect. Normally this is provided for by the appliance manufacturer and is shielded so it cannot transmit, but if something goes wrong, the radiated signal may be on a used frequency, like apparently happened here. There is a bit more to some of it, like Resonance, and such, but the point is that it can happen. Its not a conspiracy, just something going bad in the set.


I think smirkley was trying to explain this to you as well, I just thought I would make it a little less technical.


smirkley


I am thinking that it could be a short to the chassis, or its feeding back through the house ground, which would act like a big antenna. If you have ever worked on a fly back, then you know they can start to sag on the board due to their weight.

[edit on 11/3/2004 by defcon5]SP

[edit on 11/3/2004 by defcon5]

lol .... .Just think after all these years of TV and even now flat-screen TV's they are still poorly shielded. Same goes for computer monitors. And it really doesnt take much to shield them.... it is sad that most all Plasma screens produce bad RFI

defcon5 - (welcome to geekworld )

Flybacks typically are fairly well secured to the frame as you know, and in consumer type products are typically surrounded by plastic. Although obviously I cannot rule out your suggestion.

My thinking on this 'transmission' is that there was some external influence.

***Imagines a college student with about 20 things plugged into one outlet, a cable strung out the window to the next house for internet and tv. Possibly an 'experimenting' type personality that has been playing with electronics at home, but failed to follow 'logical' interconnect and grounding protocol.***

I understand what you are suggesting, but the level of power that was detected by authorities according to the article, was much higher than they have ever experienced in this type of situation. And you would think that at least one other of the millions of tv's (at least the old 'discrete-component' built ones) would have failed similarly at some other point in history.

Plus the tv was only a year old.

(I still think that if it was a flyback issue, that the x-ray protection circuits would have at least intermittenly, shut the set down.)

Originally posted by XPhiles
lol .... .Just think after all these years of TV and even now flat-screen TV's they are still poorly shielded. Same goes for computer monitors. And it really doesnt take much to shield them.... it is sad that most all Plasma screens produce bad RFI

Generally, most shielding purpose is to prevent stray interference from going "into" the circuits from the outside. UL requirements although testing for noise radiation also, primarily focus on the device to 'accept' outside interference. You look into industrial electronics, and they are commonly heavily shielded and framed in metal and well grounded. Primarily becouse of the 'dirty' noise in the environment, that is typically not on a residential power line or environment. A 100hp AC inverter will radiate a ton of noise in an industrial environment. This noise is normally never present in the consumer world.

I see your point, and thanks for the welcome, I was under the impression that this occurred more often. I came across the following article last week, about the same event, which said it occurs 2 or 3 times a year.

space.com...

Events like the TV signal triggering the COSPAS-SARSAT system are extremely rare, occurring two or three times a year, on average, according to Maj. Allan Knox, assistant director of operations at the Air Force Rescue Coordination Center at Langley Air Force Base, Va. Usually, they are caused by lightning strikes or, even more rarely, by badly-made equipment, he said.
�Over the years I�ve been here, we have chased signals to a variety of malfunctioning equipment, from garage door openers to one of the most interesting � the University of Arkansas had a malfunctioning (Sony) Jumbotron (a giant television used at sporting arenas).� A malfunctioning capacitor caused �very serious interference� with the international SAR system, Knox said�.


However, Baker said there also are reports of another TV broadcasting a SAR signal from Canada, �but I don�t know what frequency it is on.� The frequency is a critical issue. Of every 50 alerts received by the satellites, only one is a genuine call for help, according to the COSPAS-SARSAT Web site. It is the primary reason the frequency is being phased out by 2009, and all alerts will be broadcast on 406 MHz, which is digital. That system reduces false alerts to about one in 17...

The signal from Chris van Rossmann�s TV was routed by a polar orbiting satellite to the Air Force Rescue Center at Langley Air Force Base, Va. The rescue center alerted Oregon�s Office of Emergency Management who sent a Washington-state Civil Air Patrol unit to check on the SAR signal. When they arrived, Knox said, they found a beacon sending out a SAR signal from a helicopter on top of a flatbed truck. But it wasn�t the only signal, and the air patrol tracked the other signal to the Toshiba TV set.

From reading this, it looks like the signal might have been broadcast by a helicopter which was being transported, but when they got closer to the source they also came across the TV set.

Guess its true the world is getting louder.....hmmm Im curios if Broadband Over Power Lines will get picked up by satellites

Sorry, had to reflect my thought for a moment lol.

OK that was interesting. I was not aware that it did occur so often.

The fact that they were tracking a different signal, and happenned across this set when they got close to, reaffirms my suggestion that the tv, although apparently radiating at that frequency, was not radiating anything that was picked up by a satallite.

And keep in mind of the level of power consumed by a Sony Jumbotron. I can see that happenning.

Sorry I did not post this earlier, like I said I read this last week, and just assumed it was the same article until rereading the page one post.

You where right about the TV not having the power to transmit to the satellite, I think the Helicopter was the external influence that was missing from the other article.

As far as the Jumbotron is concerned, well to all those that think the government is spying on them through their TVs, I guess that they are also watching the games at the University of Arkansas�

Maybe Clinton had that one installed?



[edit on 11/3/2004 by defcon5]

You are right, two different incidents in the same time frame!? And from the same brand!? hmmm

I will modify where I stand, OK maybe that Toshiba model IS 'unintentionally radiating' excessively at that frequency, but I still doubt that a satellite picked it up, without at least first being drawn to that geographical focus due to some other 'radiator'. Actually I feel the sets were not even picked-up by satallite, just only discovered after authorities showed up and did a sweep, finding them.


***notices also how the facts about the article being written, at space.com, were buried into the bottom of the last paragraph.***


edit - fixed excessive misspellings




[edit on 3-11-2004 by smirkley]

Helicopter! Now I have to re-reflect my thought again lol. It is interesting to note that the new frequency will be in the 406 MHz digital garble range... Beep Beep Garble Garble Beep...

Isn't the 400 Mhz range generally more crowded?

[edit on 3-11-2004 by XPhiles]

****smaks head again and says to self ..."i can read real good, just cant scan-read real good"... Duh-oh ! ****


Seems like the two articles are one in the same.

So I re-re-modify my stand, back to where it was in the singular.



[edit on 3-11-2004 by smirkley]

Now you lost me, I was agreeing with you, then you weren�t agreeing with yourself, I thought you where just joking, so I didn�t say anything.

The two articles should not be the same, the original post was a CNN report, then the one I added was from space.com.

Like I was saying you where right that the TV could not transmit that powerfully, what they originally picked up must have been an actual beacon on the helicopter which most likely got bumped and turned on. Then they picked up the TV.

The bit I was saying about the jumbotron was just joking around.

Yeah ,.. I really confused myself there too for a minute.


But at the bottom of the Space.com page it will tell the name of the guy who owned the tv. Then look at the CNN page,... same name. Same TV.

Both articles are not exactly informative or telling the whole story it seems (shame on them) but together it makes sense over what happened, and that they are the same.

The CNN article is incomplete. The space.com story is interesting, but you dont find out who/what happened until you get to the last paragraph.
(and both their titles are misleading)

And basically they were already in the local area looking for a helecopter beacon, and found the tv only after already being in the neighborhood.


But yes, I kinda got confused there for a min.



[edit on 3-11-2004 by smirkley]

smirkley

It�s probably my fault, I did mention that it was the same event in the first post with the link, but I did not press the point. Anyway we�re all on the same frequency now.

XPhiles

I apologize, if it seems that I have ignored your post, I really don�t have an answer for you. I am not enough of a radio expert to give you one. My electrics background nowadays is more dabbling and fixing things for friends and family. When I went to school it was for computer engineering, and dealt more with DC electronics, however; we still had to learn AC. Most of my experience with CRT�s and AC has been fixing monitors, Building/fixing test equipment like Oscilloscopes, working on polygraphs, and like I said things for friends and family, radio just has never been a big part of it. Anyway maybe smirkley can answer your questions, or there has to be a HAMM expert on this site somewhere. I think that CMDRKeenKid may be a HAMM guy.




edit:spelling

[edit on 11/4/2004 by defcon5]

wow the tv was sending the sos signal. let me gess it was tired of watching reruns so it send out it sos. save are shows and then it sed. "please change the channel i tired of rerun come save me". wow that kid got rilly big wakeup call that morning..

but rilly I never new this stuff I thought you need a divice to send a signal, but a cercit sending signal buy it self now that it something cool.. that mean you could be sending a signal from any electionic divice and not know it that mean if someone new how to receive that signal you could be begin track at any time or worse.

[edit on 5-11-2004 by hughes28105]

All Radio Frequency (RF) receivers have what is known as an IF or Intermediate Frequency which is used to step all of the TV's tuner frequencies to one center frequency so that your reciever can demodulate the incoming signal. If you did not use a central IF frequency to demodulate your signal you would have to have a seperate reciever and TV tube (kinescope) for every channel that you wanted to pick up. The IF of different recievers are generally set at different frequencies and are monitered by the FCC and are required by US laws to be shielded from Emissions. A TV's IF is generally in the UHF region, which is where the 121.5 MHz� International voice aeronautical emergency frequency is at.

In the early 1930's when military radios were being employed on ships, it was discovered that you could locate a ship even when they were not transmitting. The receivers would transmit their IF for 10's of miles because the recievers were not shielded. This was also how the British tracked German U-boats in the early years of the war. The Germans after they had conqured France seized all of the their Matox RADAR warning recievers and installed them on their U-boats. They were not shielded and emmitted their IF for about a 25 mile radius.

In Vietnam the USAF's 1st Special Operations Wing, AC-130a aircraft, had recievers that could track the unshielded ignition systems of North Vietnamese trucks moving along the Ho Chi Minh trail at night. This is where they earned the reputation of "Truck killers."

Your automobile before it is put into the production phase is set up in a shielded EMC (electro-magnetic chamber) and analysed for errant emmissions. This is required by US law, all electronics are supposed to be tested in a EMC chamber. My guess is that Toshiba did this, but somewhere in the production process a few shields may have been left off. This is a very common occurance in non-union factories where employees are not given breaks and have to sneak off to the john.

Any errant transmission in an Emergancy Frequency is tracked down by the FCC. Because the emissions from this TV was in the range of 121 mhz, this person's home was either close to an airport or was on a major flight route. The signal was noise and not an intelligent distress call. This noise has to be shut off to keep the emergency channel free, otherwise it may interfer with a genuine distress call.