Originally posted by pheonix358
reply to post by boncho
Way to go! Now, where are your figures on the efficiency of the oil industry?
Come on mate!
P
Originally posted by Hawkiye
Also he says energy from the sun and gasoline are the same... Show me the rivers of Gasoline that we can just tap into with out have having to input
anything into it like the suns rays or the Niagara River? Gasoline is man made using more energy then we get out of it.
EROI is energy returned on energy invested, essentially showing what you get from harvesting a source of energy minus what you expended to get it.
You will notice, that hydroelectric is at the top. Because of the continuous weather patterns that move water to a higher elevation (potential) which
then runs down hill through the dams (kinetic) it is one of the most efficient means of energy production. Unfortunately, just as there are drawbacks
with all means of energy production, hydroelectric has its own as well.
Large hydroelectric facilities have historically caused significant environmental damage including reservoir flooding, sedimentation, destruction
of fish and wildlife habitats and greenhouse gas
emissions.
*
You will notice on the EROI chart that second to hydro is coal. Which makes sense given that coal requires very little preparation to be ready for its
use in energy production. It's not much different than chopped wood ready to be burned.
In third place we have Oil. Which goes against the misconception purveyed in this thread.
Also he says energy from the sun and gasoline are the same... Show me the rivers of Gasoline that we can just tap into with out have having to input
anything into it like the suns rays or the Niagara River? Gasoline is man made using more energy then we get out of it
If you notice on the EROI you will see that solar and photovoltaic cells are near the bottom. It takes more energy to get the same energy out when
compared with oil. If we take that into account and reread your above quote Hawkiye it leaves us with only a few options:
1. You are a troll.
2. You are
intellectually dishonest.
3. You are ignorant.
4. You don't actually read anything in threads that you participate in but believe your opinion to be more valid than anything posted in response to
you.
5. You possibly suffer from a
medical condition in which case the readers should not take
your actions negatively.
So in conclusion, oil and gas, which you said take more energy to "make" then we get out of it, is actually the third highest when it comes to energy
returned on energy put in.
And another figure shows that the efficiency is somewhere around 85%.
In a 2008 report, Argonne National Lab estimated that the efficiency for producing gasoline of an “average” U.S. petroleum refinery is
between 84% and 88% (Wang, 2008), and Oak Ridge National Lab reports that the net energy content of oil is approximately 132,000 Btu per gallon
(Davis, 2009).
gatewayev.org...
Earlier I addressed pheonix358's idea to harness solar, change into hydrogen and use that as fuel:
100 MJ Solar energy x40% eff. - 40 MJ Hydrolysis x70% eff- 28 MJ Hydrogen Gas = This is pretty simple, 100 MJ of solar energy is 28% efficient in your
idea. Oil, far better.
So in the past Hawkiye has said solar and wind is "free energy", I guess you will have to broaden your
personal definition to include oil & gas
seeing as it is more efficient than the two of them.
edit on 30-10-2012 by boncho because: (no reason given)
