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Islam vs the global banking elite

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posted on Oct, 31 2012 @ 08:45 PM
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reply to post by SimonPeter
 



Is that why God chose Isaac to make his Holy Covenant with rejecting Ishmael . Did God's change his mind and create a covenant with Ishmael's seed latter because he made a mistake with the Jews ? No!



You could say that God "chose" Jacob and rejected Esau... since the bible says God "loved Jacob and hated Esau"

But in the case of Ishmael, God choosing "Isaac" does not necassarily mean Ishmael was completely rejected, as propagated by Christian fundamentalists.
As we see....

a)The scriptures also tell us that Ishmael is one of the few people given named directly by God.
b)The scriptures also tell more than once that Ishmael was blessed to become a great nation, under the orginal promise to Abraham.
c)The scriptures also tell us God was "with" Ishmael as he was growing up.

Was Esau named by God? Was Esau blessed to become a great nation? Was God with Esau as he was growing up?

The evidence is pretty clear that the Ishmael was not a minor character. Though we don't read much of him, given all of the above 3 points, it points towards Ishmael also having a purpose.... After all Ishmaels bloodline ultimately led to the rise of Islam through Mohammad, a descendant of Kedar. Isaiah 42 explicitly states this.

Despite all of this, the Christian fundamentalists need Ishmael to be the bad guy. Because otherwise your imaginary hollywood style end times movie script would be incomplete without a "bad guy".


edit on 31-10-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 31 2012 @ 08:45 PM
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reply to post by SimonPeter
 



Mohammad was a scourge to the Arabs and his Koran was rejected and outlawed when he tried to put it forth . He had a bad reputation among his people and was hissed at in the early days but later Islam started to grow .


Well, the same could be said about Jesus as well.
We do know that Jesus' own people had him arrested and executed.



Islam verses Islam verses Jews . Islam verses progress , Islam verses women,Islam verses knowledge, Islam verses Christians , Islam verses tall buildings , Islam verses innocent people in restaurants or on buses or on planes . Islam does not have a problem with destroying, killing or terrorizing . If the Islamic message is so right , so holy , so beautiful why do you have to try to spread it with terror, death and destruction .


I'm going to have to repeat what I had said earlier...

You make it seem as if Christian societies are perfect.... like as if Christian countries have never shed blood. The number of people killed in wars fought by Christian countries outnumbers those killed in terrorist attacks, by an order of magnitude.

I'm not going to defend the acts of terrorists.... much like how you wont be defending the acts of Christian warmongers. So don't waste time on this.



posted on Oct, 31 2012 @ 08:49 PM
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reply to post by SimonPeter
 




What is you point ? The Gospel was offered first to the Jew and then to the Gentile . Romans 11 verse 25 says " For I would not ,brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in ".


It is Pauls theology, not Jesus'.
Jesus specifically instructed his disciples to avoid gentile towns... and even declared that he was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.

Christians appear to be followers of Paul instead of followers of Jesus.



posted on Oct, 31 2012 @ 09:28 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


So I would suppose Acts 10 would be wrong ? Acts 10 verse 28 is where Peter said God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean . This was written by Luke .
Jesus had a pretty specific job to accomplish . The Disciples or Apostles had their job to do .Do not degrade Paul who was once a Christian killing Roman citizen of Jewish ancestry. God gave him a great load to carry as the Gentile connection to Jesus . In the book of Revelations chapter 7 verse 9 is a discription of the saved people before the throne . The description is < a great multitude which no man could number of all nations, and kindreds, people, and tongues , stood before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes , and palms in their hands .
Paul was right on the mark .



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 06:52 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


So what's your point?

We should all adopt Islam, beat our vives, rape our daughters and then stone them to death for being impure, kill Kafir, hang Gay people, toy with little boys (because boys are for fun and women are for breeding)...

All so we can have a little fair trade..?

So, one OK thing about islam is reason enuf to abandon our humanity towards others?

lol
edit on 11/1/2012 by Ironclad because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 07:04 AM
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Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


So I would suppose Acts 10 would be wrong ? Acts 10 verse 28 is where Peter said God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean . This was written by Luke .
Jesus had a pretty specific job to accomplish . The Disciples or Apostles had their job to do .Do not degrade Paul who was once a Christian killing Roman citizen of Jewish ancestry. God gave him a great load to carry as the Gentile connection to Jesus . In the book of Revelations chapter 7 verse 9 is a discription of the saved people before the throne . The description is < a great multitude which no man could number of all nations, and kindreds, people, and tongues , stood before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes , and palms in their hands .
Paul was right on the mark .

Thats a vivid picture validitating the theology of Paul. Its serves a purpose of making people emotional.
I understand your need for all of it to be right.
But take a look back at history after Jesus pbuh ascended to Heaven, would Jesus pbuh leave such important concepts unsaid and a unknown man comes and puts them in the new emerging religion? Did the romans really care about salvation of their subjects or would just be interested to have a uniform universal religion that pleases all and keeps subjects happy and obidient.
Did they really left the Bible untouched? Did the church not cherry pick gospels that served a purpose? How does pope get unrefutable authority over dictating whats the right belief? Only God can do that.
And back to the topic here, why the church is not strong against ursury now like islam?
Why something that was a sin before is ok now? Or why the church looks the other way about some sins?
Is it not afraid of answering to God one day?
If the church is under other influences now, wouldnt the same case be at the roman times?
Dont say whatever you have is from GOD blindly. the church told you that.
Remember what Jesus said, "you'l know them by their fruits"
watch their actions mate, are they concious of God and ready to suffer and yet stand up for God's law or just after the world and its glitter.



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 07:19 AM
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Originally posted by Ironclad
reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


So what's your point?

We should all adopt Islam, beat our vives, rape our daughters and then stone them to death for being impure, kill Kafir, hang Gay people, toy with little boys (because boys are for fun and women are for breeding)...

All so we can have a little fair trade..?

So, one OK thing about islam is reason enuf to abandon our humanity towards others?

lol
edit on 11/1/2012 by Ironclad because: (no reason given)

one more ignorant poster!!!
Ya what you said appears nice and funny, degrades islam, and it being right or fiction doesnt really matter to you so long as it makes you feel good about yourself and your religion.
If you ever get rid of that fear of islam and feel that your belief is strong enough that you can examine islam and discuss about it openly and honestly then we can talk.



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 09:14 AM
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reply to post by Ironclad
 



So what's your point?
We should all adopt Islam, beat our vives, rape our daughters and then stone them to death for being impure, kill Kafir, hang Gay people, toy with little boys (because boys are for fun and women are for breeding)...


Something tells me you don't live by a religion yourself.
Or am I wrong?



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 09:16 AM
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reply to post by logical7
 



would Jesus pbuh leave such important concepts unsaid and a unknown man comes and puts them in the new emerging religion?

Thats all there is to it, actually.

A lot of what Christians believe did not come from the mouth of Jesus. They all rely on convoluted interpretations of the bible including Pauls letters, to frame their theology.



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 01:52 PM
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Originally posted by logical7
The apostates who rejected Islam by failing to emigrate as commanded by God are divided into three categories: 1) Those who ally themselves with a group with whom Muslims have a peace treaty; 2) Those who want to keep neutrality, committing themselves to peace with both the Muslims and their own people who had not accepted Islam; 3) Those who provide no real guarantee of peace to Muslims and by all indications ally themselves with non-believers engaged in hostilities towards Islam. The first two types of apostates are to be left in peace while the third one is to be treated like any non-believers in a state of war: they are to be seized and killed wherever they are found. Notice that the Qur`an uses the words “God has opened no way for you against them” in connection with the apostates of the first two types. This means that the Qur`an actually prohibits killing those apostates who want to live in peaceful terms with the Muslims. Thus according to the Qur`an the apostates are to be treated like other kuffar: If they want to live in peace with the Muslims, they are to be left in peace and if they assume a hostile attitude, then they are to be treated accordingly.


Methinks you've been living around those pesky christian fundamentalists too long..........on second thought maybe not....

The vast majority of the Islamic world disagrees with your particular opinion on the suitable punishments for such heinous 'crimes' as apostasy, Fasad fil-ardh and (eeeeek even worse??!?!) blasphemy.

Death by beheading for leaving your gang or calling your particular space ghost a name you find offensive, is the very definition of backwards and barbarian.

But hey at least you have a few vague philosophies on debt



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 04:33 PM
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reply to post by Prezbo369
 



Methinks you've been living around
those pesky christian fundamentalists
too long..........on second thought
maybe not....
The vast majority of the Islamic world
disagrees with your particular opinion on the suitable punishments for such
heinous 'crimes' as apostasy, Fasad fil-
ardh and (eeeeek even worse??!?!)
blasphemy.
Death by beheading for leaving your
gang or calling your particular space ghost a name you find offensive, is the
very definition of backwards and
barbarian.
But hey at least you have a few vague
philosophies on debt

you want to know what methinks?
Going from hypocrisy to apostasy is a great improvement.
Cause hypocrites who dont believe yet outwardly show themselves as muslims have a worst punishment in hell then plain simple disbelievers.
But ya there are rulings of death penalty for apostasy but there are other opinions and alternative and even opposite opinions exist.
And like i posted before, the apostate decides his own fate, from peaceful live and let live to banishment or even death if he actively helps enemies to hurt or kill other muslims.
But as you must have seen many times apostates dont just disappear silently, they beat drums and defame islam, many times with backing from opposing gangs and then earn the expected anger of the gang they left and death threats etc
and they claim that they are revealing dark secrets of islam but in reality each muslim knows what big fat liars they are. Although ignorant others hear them and believe them, as they dont feel the need to doubt them. And after all this they would obviously not be welcomed.
For example, an atheist converts to any religion, no problem.
But then he starts shouting "when i was atheist, i saw horrible things, they have secret societies and practice cannibalism"!!! and some angry atheist actually threatens to eat him if he catches him.



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 07:00 PM
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reply to post by logical7
 


No I suppose not ! Instead he sent a man of ill repute like Muhammad to lay with the harlots , fornicator and adulterer to deliver the ultimate religion for you . He sent a man who came to us by the dirt path of Ishmael to deliver the ARAB religion supposedly untouched by a single Jew therefore forging his own covenant with God . This is a religion owned by the rejected seed .
This may sound harsh but truth is always unvarnished .



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 08:18 PM
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reply to post by SimonPeter
 



....the dirt path of Ishmael to deliver the ARAB religion supposedly untouched by a single Jew therefore forging his own covenant with God


What dirt path of Ishmael?
You keep speaking ill of Ishmael, while failing to address the scriptures about Ishmael that I have brought up at least twice in this thread.

I will post it here again.,

a)The scriptures also tell us that Ishmael is one of the few people given named directly by God.
b)The scriptures also tell more than once that Ishmael was blessed to become a great nation, under the orginal promise to Abraham.
c)The scriptures also tell us God was "with" Ishmael as he was growing up.

The evidence is pretty clear that the Ishmael was not "rejected".
Though we don't read much of him, given all of the above 3 points, it points towards Ishmael also having a purpose.... After all Ishmaels bloodline ultimately led to the rise of Islam through Mohammad, a descendant of Kedar. Isaiah 42 explicitly states this.

Despite all of this, you have the need to demonize Ishmael because otherwise your imaginary hollywood style end times movie script would be incomplete without a "bad guy".

edit on 1-11-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 08:49 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Your reply and omission of a certain reply is damning . Your great answer to the Christ Jesus was Mohammad and his reputation is not defendable . God would not use such a man to deliver His gospel to anyone .
If you can't defend Mohammad how can you defend his utterance the Koran ?



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 10:32 PM
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reply to post by SimonPeter
 



God would not use such a man to deliver His gospel to anyone .

But you believe God would use a man like Paul, a killer of Christians, to deliver.... Christianity?


Anyway, I'll play along...
If you believe Islam is not of God, then you have a bigger problem on your hands.

1. You need to ask yourself, Why did God allow Islam to rise in the first place? Couldn't God have just established Christianity in Arabia instead of allowing Islam to rise and dominate.... and then spread out to North Africa and even as far as China and Indonesia?

2. Was God powerless to prevent the rise of Islam?
Now I know your obvious answer would be on the lines of "the devil helped Islam arise".... but what about the billions of people who followed Islam because they were born into it.

Did God purposely mislead billions of Arabs through the centuries? Does God have a problem with Arabs? Does God want Arabs to go to hell? That is what you are implying when you say Islam is not of God.

Of course, I wont be surprised if you actually say you believe God allowed Islam to emerge so he could damn Arabs forever.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Thankfully there is enough and more prophetic scripture that points directly towards the rise of Islam. Isaiah 42 points towards Islam.


Behold my servant...
He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth.....

- Islams success as a religion.


Let the wilderness and the cities thereof lift up their voice, the villages that Kedar doth inhabit: let the inhabitants of the rock sing, let them shout from the top of the mountains.

- Refers to the wilderness which Ishmael was sent into = deserts = Arabia.
Kedar = the son of Ishmael. This directly refers to the Ishmaelites and points to a new prophet outside of Israel. Deny this all you want, the truth remains.


a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles....

-Islam is the covenant for the Gentiles.


Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.

-The end of Arabias history of paganism and idolatry. God Himself is making the prophecy.

he shall prevail against his enemies.
I have long time holden my peace; I have been still, and refrained myself: now will I cry like a travailing woman; I will destroy and devour at once.

- Explains perfectly the wars and battles surrounding the rise of Islam. Islam prevailed... and continues to do so to this day... calling what was "sin" 1500 years ago as "sin" to this day. While christianity has allowed its societies to be polluted with secular values that exalts mockers of God, Islam has not.. to this day.


And I will bring the blind by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them.


-This verse from the Koran should suffice-
This is a Book which We have revealed to you, O Muhammad, that you might bring mankind out of darknesses into the light by permission of their Lord - to the path of the Exalted in Might, the Praiseworthy.

They shall be turned back, they shall be greatly ashamed, that trust in graven images, that say to the molten images, Ye are our gods.
- Points to Mohammads victory over Arabias idolaters.... and his destruction of the pagan idols and statues.
No biblical prophet that we know of was ever active in Kedar ever shamed the idolaters of Arabia.


And the last nail....

Who gave Jacob for a spoil, and Israel to the robbers? did not the Lord, he against whom we have sinned? for they would not walk in his ways, neither were they obedient unto his law.

Islam was raised among the Ishmaelites because their brothers, the Israelites failed to obey God.
All of this leads back to the promise made to Ishmael in Genesis. That he too would be a great nation.

Ishmael seems to have been a "back-up plan" in case Israel failed. And Israel indeed failed.

The best part is that these prophecies aren't even vague. There are names... events....historical facts.... that point directly to Islam.






edit on 1-11-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 12:08 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Yes there is a place for Islam's creation . You can read all about it in Ezekiel 38. Your own people know this purpose and know pretty much their part in the war up coming . Islam is one of the principle players in that war along with Russia who will ultimately betray you . America will fail Israel for some reason whether it is a Muslim president not helping them or a major problem with the country such as Irans plan to use the Nuke as an EMP weapon to cripple us .Zechariah 13 and 14 tell the story of this war . Israel will be sustained to build it's 3rd Temple for the Antichrist ( Dajjal) to desecrate . Jesus will come to save Israel after the Abomination of Desolation . The Banking Elite will be finished then .



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 12:11 AM
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reply to post by SimonPeter
 


Regardless of how you perceive some prophecy.... the questions still remain.

Did God purposely mislead billions of Arabs through the centuries? Does God have a problem with Arabs? Does God want Arabs to go to hell via Islam?



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 12:12 AM
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reply to post by SimonPeter
 


Also, you read meanings into vague prophecies... but purposely ignore prophecies in Isaiah 42 that point directly to Islam being the light of the gentiles. Strange.



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 12:43 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Isaiah 42 verse 5 is written about the Lords servant in Kedar . In Psalms 120 David prays against the lying tonguesand desire for war in Kedar . David is the delight of the Lord not Kedar .
Isaiah 21 verse 16 and 17 the Lord makes determinations against Kedar . Not Good !
Isaiah 61 verse 7 Kedar comes to the Lord with acceptable sacrifices .
In Kedar were decendants of Ishmael who were also served the Lord as I am sure was the case in other Arab countries before Islam .



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 12:52 AM
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reply to post by SimonPeter
 



David is the delight of the Lord not Kedar


Kedar is not a person in Isaiah 42, but rather refers to specific places.
"Let the wilderness and the cities thereof lift up their voice, the villages that Kedar doth inhabit: let the inhabitants of the rock sing, let them shout from the top of the mountains."

Secodly, when did David ever do anything in Kedar? No biblical prophet we know of operated in Kedar, let alone shame their idolaters and be "a light to the gentiles" over there.

Isaiah 42 points to a new prophet outside of Israel....




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