Hey, how come...?

If an atomic bomb blows up because atoms are split, releasing all of the energy in the atom, how come the Large Hadron Collider doesn't blow up when it smashes atoms?

reply to post by jiggerj


a bomb uses a kilo of fissile material and turns it into energy. A colliders shmashes individual atoms

reply to post by jiggerj


I think it's because it doesn't smash ATOMS, it smashes particle beams of either protons or lead nuclei. SUBatomic particles.

Large Hadron Collider - Wikipedia

reply to post by jiggerj


I like this page for aprimer in understanding particle accelerators

Originally posted by jiggerj
If an atomic bomb blows up because atoms are split, releasing all of the energy in the atom, how come the Large Hadron Collider doesn't blow up when it smashes atoms?

I always thought that the atoms collide and "blow up", and this was the hole purpose of the Large Hadron Collider . It is the explosion of the atoms that they photograph, isn't it?

Originally posted by dashen
reply to post by jiggerj

 

a bomb uses a kilo of fissile material and turns it into energy. A colliders shmashes individual atoms

I googled fissile material and found it on Wikipedia. Way over my head. But it did put away my notion that just one single atom did all that destruction in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. So, thanks for that.

I should probably do some research before I post or risk looking dumb, but I'll just go from memory I'm pretty sure I remember the the atom bombs take an atom of some sort and literally tear the bonds apart that hold the protons together. There is a huge amount of energy in these bonds.

For example, a fusion reaction is what we see in the sun. It takes huge heat and pressure and takes a hydrogen atom with one proton and uses that heat/pressure energy to create a bond and turn this hydrogen into helium by adding another proton. The fission reaction from our nukes was like this process in reverse.

It took a helium atom(not really) and tore the atomic bonds apart releasing the heat and pressure that is found on the sun that was used to create this bond and left behind two hydrogen atoms. Again, this isn't really what happened. But it might help you remember what's going on.

It's a chain reaction that causes the enormous release in energy that was seen in Hiroshima. There has to be a certain amount of material for it to happen. Also, it involves the splitting of atoms.

A critical mass is the smallest amount of fissile material needed for a sustained nuclear chain reaction. The critical mass of a fissionable material depends upon its nuclear properties (specifically, the nuclear fission cross-section), its density, its shape, its enrichment, its purity, its temperature, and its surroundings. The concept is important in nuclear weapon design

en.wikipedia.org...

The LHC is a particle accelerator, which does release a lot of energy in its collisions, but as far as something akin to what is described in the OP, there isn't any worry.

Concern has recently been expressed that a 'runaway fusion reaction' might be created in the LHC carbon beam dump. The safety of the LHC beam dump had previously been reviewed by the relevant regulatory authorities of the CERN host states, France and Switzerland. The specific concerns expressed more recently have been addressed in a technical memorandum by Assmann et al. As they point out, fusion reactions can be maintained only in material compressed by some external pressure, such as that provided by gravity inside a star, a fission explosion in a thermonuclear device, a magnetic field in a Tokamak, or by continuing isotropic laser or particle beams in the case of inertial fusion. In the case of the LHC beam dump, it is struck once by the beam coming from a single direction. There is no countervailing pressure, so the dump material is not compressed, and no fusion is possible.

Concern has been expressed that a 'runaway fusion reaction' might be created in a nitrogen tank inside the LHC tunnel. There are no such nitrogen tanks. Moreover, the arguments in the previous paragraph prove that no fusion would be possible even if there were.

LHC safety.

I hope this clears it up, I think I was addressing your concern, if not, feel free to add to it.

It all goes back to Einstein's famous formula E=M*(C squared). This describes the amount of energy that would be released by the total conversion of some amount of matter to energy. An atom (fission) bomb only converts about 3% of the fissile material to energy and a hydrogen (fusion) bomb converts about 7% of the fusion matter to energy. But that still amounts to one heck of a lot of energy. Don't believe it, just ask a Japanese citizen who lived through Hiroshima or Nagasaki.

So, let us look at what that means in the real world. First we need the definitions and units of each of the parts of the equation.

Joule - This is the unit of energy that the term E (energy) is measured in. As a unit of energy, it is defined as the amount of energy required to raise the temperature of one kilogram of water by one degree Celsius.

Mass - This is the unit of mass that the term M stands for and is measured in Kilograms. If an atomic bomb only converts 3% of the fissile mass to energy (some of the newer ones are more efficient) that means that only .03 Kilogram of mass is totally converted for each Kilogram of fissile material in the bomb.

C - stands for the speed of light in Kilometers per second. That number is 300,000 or three hundred thousand kilometers per second.

Now let's put it all together for a bomb with one Kilogram of fissile material...

E - energy in joules equals .03 (mass in kilograms) times the speed of light in KPS (300,000) squared which equals 90,000,000,000 or 90 billion.

So the energy in joules is equal to 90,000,000,000 times .03 or 2,700,000,000 or 2 billion 700 million joules.

Now let's put that into the actual equation...

2,700,000,000 (joules) = .03 (Kilogram) times 300,000 squared or 90,000,000,000

So we have the energy release of only .03 Kilogram being able to raise the temperature of one Kilogram (approx 2.2 pounds) of water by two billion seven hundred million degrees. That is one heck of a lot of energy.

So why doesn't the Large Hadron Collider blow up or melt down? It is simple really. The mass of the particles they are smashing together is exceedingly small. They are smashing individual protons together in two counter rotating streams. And the mass of a single proton is 1.67262158e-27 kilograms. This is an exponential number in scientific notation. So to tie this all up lets expand that number for the mass of a proton to normal notation.

The mass of a single proton is .000000000000000000000000000167262158 kilograms. That doesn't produce enough energy for an ant to blow it's nose. And that is only if the entire mass of the proton is converted to pure energy. The actual process produces some energy and some smaller particles that they are looking for with their detectors. But the actual measure of the energy of a proton traveling at near light speed in the accelerator is in TEVs, or trillion electron volts. And no, I am not going any further to change TEVs to any other measure.

OK, I lied, so due me...

Here is the equivalent in joules of an electron volt. 1 electron volt = 1.60217646 × 10-19 joules or .0000000000000000000160217646 joules.

reply to post by happykat39

Prove it.
Ants don't have noses. They have spiracles. Twenty of them.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by happykat39

 

Prove it.
Ants don't have noses. They have spiracles. Twenty of them.

And a star to you for your humor.

Originally posted by jiggerj
If an atomic bomb blows up because atoms are split, releasing all of the energy in the atom, how come the Large Hadron Collider doesn't blow up when it smashes atoms?

The LHC only collides individual particles,whereas a nuclear bomb requires numerous particles in order to initiate an exponential energy release by way of a chain reaction,the energy released by an individual particle is negligible.

Originally posted by dashen
reply to post by jiggerj

 

a bomb uses a kilo of fissile material and turns it into energy. A colliders shmashes individual atoms

Could the material that contains the individual smashes be ignited in a chain reaction (in theory)?

reply to post by jiggerj


Maybe its because its only smashing part of the atom or the proton bundles of gold? Which make for quick less destructive explosions due to electron/neutron particles not being split as well..

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by happykat39

 

Prove it.
Ants don't have noses. They have spiracles. Twenty of them.

So ants can never be accused of being "nosey"

...but aUnts certainly can!!!