why seti have'nt detected alien signal is earth qurantined from aliens?

Originally posted by nv4711

Originally posted by earthalien50

Originally posted by nv4711

Originally posted by earthalien50

Originally posted by Putyournamehere
reply to post by karam

 

That's because there are no aliens, you should pick up a bible, and convert. Now.

How can the bible believers not believe in aliens? What was Jesus and the other deities that supposedly reside in the heavens? If they are not aliens, what are they? I respect others beliefs, but interpreting the bible to one's personal preferences is the biggest problem with organized religions in my opinion.

I believe that if governments admitted to alien visitors it would turn the world upside down. There would be a paradigm shift that would disrupt the powers that be.

Why is man so arrogant to believe that advanced civilizations would use our type of communication? Don't you think that they would have a more advanced form of communication? We have not even scratched the surface of technology. How does someone receive quantum communications that travel beyond the speed of light? We can't do that yet. SETI has only covered a small area as the one poster said. Looking for our primitive form of communication is limited to civilizations that use it.

edit on 28-10-2012 by earthalien50 because: (no reason given)

edit on 28-10-2012 by earthalien50 because: (no reason given)

Don't feed the troll and don't take the bait.

You resort to attacks instead of arguing the subject of SETI and aliens. I guess questioning the bible makes me an alien troll.

Relax, I was calling the other guy the troll - I meant that you shouldn't give him the time of day, because that's usually a useless exercise.

Thanks for clarifying. I am new here and still have a lot to learn.

Originally posted by Putyournamehere
reply to post by karam

 

That's because there are no aliens, you should pick up a bible, and convert. Now.

I do not know everything about god so god is mostly unknown/alien to me. I do not know any angels in the from that is written in the bible so angels are aliens to me. If the person can go down the rabbit whole all the way without fear and really seek without ego then take up any human religion and you will find something behind the human dogma that makes sense and frankly will respond in it's own way and timeframe. The bible is useful but meditation is more direct.

If we caught "radio waves" in the space this would mean a few things about the sender, if indeed there is a sentient sender of those waves:
1. this would mean that they're real close to us, or particularly aimed at us
2. this would mean they're using the same technology that we still use

1. Distance / focus
   Radio waves are a slow way to convey information through space. In particular when you think of the vast distances in space. It may just take several hundreds or thousands of years before a signal emitted would reach us. This would also mean that an answer from our side would take the same time to reach the initial sender.
   
   Distance is one thing that makes contact through radio waves unlikely.
   
   In fact, radio waves, as emitted by radio broadcasts, are emitted in all directions, and as you know, they fade with distance. Move away from your local station and the signal is too faint to be heard on your radio, everyone knows this. This means that a broadcast sender, to reach us distinctly, would have to be extremely powerful, and yet very close.
   
   Unless... Unless they would focus a powerful radio wave "beam" towards us, in order to reach us specifically. This could make it through space for some distance, but again, it takes many years to travel even to our closest neighbors.
   
   And this brings me to the second point.
   
   
2. Technology
   If we could catch such a signal, it means that the sender uses still the same technology that we use now, besides their will to aim at us a radio signal.
   
   This means that an "exchange" of communication would be an extremely slow exchange. Most probably all info gathered on one side would be obsolete when the answer to their original message is received.
   
   Imagine that we would say one sentence on the phone every few years. Not only I don't want to see the telephone bill, but needless to say that the conversation makes no sense, has no use.

At best we could communicate with radio waves within our own solar system. SETI, if ever it discovers the presence somewhere of a real intelligent radio wave communication, will have done its job. But it brings just and only the confirmation that such a radio signal exists. It can't say for sure that it is a communication between us and someone else.

Originally posted by olaru12

The "others" are well aware of your existence but think you are primitive, tribal, violent, racists, talking monkeys and have very little in common with you. And they especially don't like the way you mistreat the animals you share the planet with. That's why they don't talk to you!

edit on 28-10-2012 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)

Lol. I could have written the exakt same remark. . But what can you expect in a type 0 civilization with system faults where people are allowed to brainwash/lie/manipulate each other and bully each other to belive smallminded things.

Originally posted by LiberalSceptic
reply to post by pheonix358

 

Indeed, but if they do want to communicate with us, they would probably try to use something that our "simple minds" can comprehend and make sense of. Both with tech and mind.

you mean like posts on an internet forum? I wonder how many aliens have tried to post here only to get shot down as trolls. its kind of silly if think about it but at the same time its as as silly as trying to pick up radio signals. Why not scan the internet looking for advanced alien contact?

Originally posted by karam
according to drake equation there are many alien civilization we should have got a alien signal till now its been 30 year since seti established.

The main problem here is a civilization is only in the broad radio casting era for a very short period of time. Give or take 100 years and it all become more shielded and focus as we are seeing now. We should reach a point where earth is not really transmitting much of anything out into open space.

With that said, we are then looking at the off chance that we just happen to align with some other civilization's short broad cast period. It would be a different story if signals were openly broad casted for millions of years, but it is like winning the lottery (or 10 lottery tickets in a row) to just happen to catch a signal from an advance race.

just some random thoughts on this..


Signals from Pulsar Stars were once thought to be ET type communication.
Pulsar

When observations with another telescope confirmed the emission, it eliminated any sort of instrumental effects. At this point, Burnell notes of herself and Hewish that "we did not really believe that we had picked up signals from another civilization, but obviously the idea had crossed our minds and we had no proof that it was an entirely natural radio emission. It is an interesting problem—if one thinks one may have detected life elsewhere in the universe, how does one announce the results responsibly?"[4]

How can you differentiate between a "naturally" occuring signal and an "intelligent" type signal. At what point do you say that it is an itelligent signal?

Also, how would you know if it wasn't just noise?
some forms of digital information look like noise unless you have the correct decoder. If you open up a jpeg photo in say notepad, you get what looks like very random character strings,

ÿØÿà JFIF



ÿþ ;CREATOR: gd-jpeg v1.0 (using IJG JPEG v62), quality = 80
ÿÛ C 
%# , #&')*)-0-(0%()(ÿÛ C

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((ÿÀ  ð  
" 

ÿÄ 








ÿÄ µ 

]
 !1AQa"q2‘¡#B±ÁRÑð$3br‚
%&'()*456789:CDEFGHIJSTUVWXYZcdefghijstuvwxyzƒ„…†‡ˆ‰Š’“”•–—˜™š¢£¤¥¦§¨©ª²³´µ¶·¸¹ºÂÃÄÅÆÇÈÉÊ ÒÓÔÕÖ×ØÙÚáâãäåæçèéêñòóôõö÷øùúÿÄ 


notepad took the binary code and interprited as characters instead of pixels. How could we identify something that looks like noise as intellegence?

Originally posted by ZetaRediculian
just some random thoughts on this..


Signals from Pulsar Stars were once thought to be ET type communication.
Pulsar

When observations with another telescope confirmed the emission, it eliminated any sort of instrumental effects. At this point, Burnell notes of herself and Hewish that "we did not really believe that we had picked up signals from another civilization, but obviously the idea had crossed our minds and we had no proof that it was an entirely natural radio emission. It is an interesting problem—if one thinks one may have detected life elsewhere in the universe, how does one announce the results responsibly?"[4]

How can you differentiate between a "naturally" occuring signal and an "intelligent" type signal. At what point do you say that it is an itelligent signal?

Also, how would you know if it wasn't just noise?
some forms of digital information look like noise unless you have the correct decoder. If you open up a jpeg photo in say notepad, you get what looks like very random character strings,

ÿØÿà JFIF



ÿþ ;CREATOR: gd-jpeg v1.0 (using IJG JPEG v62), quality = 80
ÿÛ C 
%# , #&')*)-0-(0%()(ÿÛ C

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((ÿÀ  ð  
" 

ÿÄ 








ÿÄ µ 

]
 !1AQa"q2‘¡#B±ÁRÑð$3br‚
%&'()*456789:CDEFGHIJSTUVWXYZcdefghijstuvwxyzƒ„…†‡ˆ‰Š’“”•–—˜™š¢£¤¥¦§¨©ª²³´µ¶·¸¹ºÂÃÄÅÆÇÈÉ� �ÒÓÔÕÖ×ØÙÚáâãäåæçèéêñòóôõö÷øùúÿÄ 


notepad took the binary code and interprited as characters instead of pixels. How could we identify something that looks like noise as intellegence?

edit on 28-10-2012 by ZetaRediculian because: (no reason given)

There's a nice Powerpoint presentation titled "Contacting Aliens" from the Physics Dept. of the University of Utah, explaining all this. It's a very long link, so try Google with keywords "physics utah edu contacting aliens".

I also had something explaining specifically your question, but can't find it right now, when I do, I'll post it.

It is a quite silly and short sighted belief to think that we discovered and harnassed the best form of communication in our technological infancy.

We now have discovered quantum entanglement, which we can now, with present technology manipulate, and use as a form of mores code to send signals instantly across any distance. In time, we will be able to manipulate this into a form of instant internet, where we could send and receive real time info across even intergalactic space to other galaxies, without the pathetic lightspeed barrier concerning us, like it does today.

40 minutes to send data to mars, 40 minutes to send a reply back......pathetic, and altogether an exercise in useless waste to any space faring race.

Any advanced race would be using entanglement to send signals at the minimum, as lightspeed would be the equivelent of sending carrier pigeons, or the pony express,

Originally posted by LiberalSceptic
reply to post by SpearMint

 

And due to the size of the universe, I think you my friend underestimate the chances of things happening. Infinite size, infinite possibilities.

I use to think this but have come believe that this is incorrect. "Infinite possibilities" also implies that it is possible that life does not exist out there, intelligent or otherwise.

The only thing we have to calculate probability of life elsewhere is what is known. We do have a vast "known" universe but with only one known sample point of intelligent life, us.

for instance, if I have a deck of cards, the probability of drawing the Ace of Spades can be calculated since I "know" exactly what is in the deck. But if I take this knowledge away, how do you calculate this? Lets say I draw the first card from the deck and it's an ace. What is the probability of there being another ace in the deck if I know absolutely nothing about the deck of cards? The only thing I know is that one ace exists which is us.

Now if the deck is infinitely sized, does that mean I will draw another ace? It could take an infinite amount of time. What if it contained an infinite set of 52 standard cards? ....and I drew an infinite amount of 7s and 2s (which is what it felt like at my poker game last night) We "know" the ace exists...right?

Infinite possibilities equals infinite paradoxes

Originally posted by inverslyproportional
It is a quite silly and short sighted belief to think that we discovered and harnassed the best form of communication in our technological infancy.

We now have discovered quantum entanglement, which we can now, with present technology manipulate, and use as a form of mores code to send signals instantly across any distance. In time, we will be able to manipulate this into a form of instant internet, where we could send and receive real time info across even intergalactic space to other galaxies, without the pathetic lightspeed barrier concerning us, like it does today.

40 minutes to send data to mars, 40 minutes to send a reply back......pathetic, and altogether an exercise in useless waste to any space faring race.

Any advanced race would be using entanglement to send signals at the minimum, as lightspeed would be the equivelent of sending carrier pigeons, or the pony express,

Unfortunately, this is not true. Quantum entanglement does not allow the transport of classical information.

In quantum information theory, a no-communication theorem is a result which gives conditions under which instantaneous transfer of information between two observers is impossible. These results can be applied to understand the so-called paradoxes in quantum mechanics such as the EPR paradox or violations of local realism obtained in tests of Bell's theorem. In these experiments, the no-communication theorem shows that failure of local realism does not lead to what could be referred to as "spooky communication at a distance" (in analogy with Einstein's labeling of quantum entanglement as "spooky action at a distance").

(from wikipedia)

reply to post by nv4711


The entanglement is indefinite across any distance until a measurement is made. As soon as a measurement is made the other entangled particle will automatically aqcuire the same state.

So if I want an up or down answer to a question, say for instance, do I follow protocal 1 or protocol 2. I take an entangled particle at my location and measure it spin. The coresponding particle at "home" would auto matically acquire a known measured spin as well. ( my question about what to do, as the protocall was already alid out for communication)

The home office would then, answer me by, either measuring the velocity or spin of another entangled particle we share. Depending on their response of measuring spin or velocity, I would be able to tell which protocal to follow next. This is real time "mores code" across any distance.

I did not mean, I could simply vibrate out a code of some sort, I meant we can send up or down binary signals by simply either measuring spin or velocity, causing the other entangled particle to automatically acquire the corresponding value.

It does work, it has been observed, and only requires, that a space ship set out with a certain amount of entangled particles, before needing to refill their stock at a future date, for further communications. It isn't sending any information but the spin or velocity, but with a presrranged code for which one happens it is a signal.

Just like smoke signals don't send any information but puffs of smoke, unless a single puff means X and 2 puffs means Y by preestablished protocals.

reply to post by nv4711


Thanks. I would be interested in that.

I believe that we have been noticed by at least one civilization, but they do not want to reply. I believe there is a "universal code" for civilizations to keep their mouth shut. They don't want to attract "unwelcome" visitors.

www.youtube.com... according to this video we have picked up some sort of alien signal and some people say we shouldn't reply

There are better questions to ask:

1) Why are they not physically here? Radio-wise, duh of course they won't be using radio. That's the interstellar equivalent of intercontintentally sending messages in bottles over the ocean. Even if they had no better technologies, it'd still be useless to them and they probably just wouldn't communicate at all with each other over large distances. Or very little.

But we know that even with current technology, we'd populate the entire galaxy in a few hundred million years tops just going from star to star using slow multi-generation spaceships. So, if they exist all then they have to be already here; we'd already be there. That means.. something is stopping them from making contact. Or they don't exist.

2) Why do the ones that people 'see' appear biological? We're going to have a technological singularity this century hopefully and computers will exceed human intelligence trillion-folds and more. Obviously, humanity will morph into or just be taken over by computer intelligences. When we go to other stars, it won't be as biological creatures. It will be as computers. An ET star-traveling civilization will no question have gone through this transformation already. ETs coming here will be computers.

Just using easy extrapolations off of technologies we already have proves current ET theories ridiculous and absurd.

Just because we do not see or hear something coming to earth does not mean it is not coming to earth. Other beings might have other forms of communication that we just do not understand yet.

ET will likely be using techno that we cant see/hear however!!!

WE have been screaming our heads off as loudly as we possibly can for decades, not just with broadcast radio, but with nuclear detonations, some of which we exploded in space!!
In the local area of our galaxy (which includes millions of stars/planets) the earth is like a crazed flashing beacon and ET WILL be watching for signs of life..

THEY know we are here!

reply to post by earthalien50


Here is a solution to any paradigm shift, work with aliens and there technology and you will get rich! from the benefits to economy to ecological( cleaner energy), philosophy you name it, i think as long as people focus on the positive it wouldnt turn society upside down. prosuming of course there friendly working with the government i would assume they could overcome this.

also about the whole being sheilded bit, i heard from one of John Lears videos the van hallen radiation belt keeps humans at bay so to speak, maybe it also sheilds from the outside as well.. honestly the whole thought makes me disgusted

Originally posted by nv4711

What do you want SETI to do? Throw up their hands and not do anything at all, because all we got is Radio Telescopes?

Why not?

Why do always feel the need to know everything at all times?

So we get communications from alien civilizations? What then? What are we going to constructively do with that information? My bet is nothing. Nothing at all. If we can't even get our own shiite together on this planet, how can you realistically think we'll do any good whatsoever in communicating and dealing with alien races we know nothing about?

I believe that alien races exist, but to believe that we would be able to deal with them on any level at all is delusional at best.