Is HAARP feeding SANDY? (The Conspiracy Side)

Originally posted by mbkennel

Originally posted by pheonix358
Phage, your answers annoy me. You insist your answers are always right, sometimes they're not.

You know science well, but only accepted science. I understand with absolute clarity what some of the posters in this thread are getting at. If it was me, I would help them phrase their words better. You just shoot them down pointing out your superiority.

His knowledge of science is superior.

A poster points out that electricity and magnetism are the same thing. I agree with you ..... but!

So answer my questions, and yes, it does have a bearing on the possible uses of HAARP.

What force provides the energy for magnetism, gravity and electricity.

A force doesn't, on its own, provide energy for anything. Energy is a property of arrangements of matters and fields. It is a quantitative property which constrains the possible outcomes from the laws of physics.

"electricity" is a somewhat unclear concept to the layman. There are two separate components:

part A: charged particles of matter
part B: electric and magnetic fields which exist everywhere in space and time.

The motion of charged particles of matter in A create the electric and magnetic fields. Electric and magnetic fields themselves exert forces on charged particles.

"electricity" in common human usage is the motion of charged particles (current), usually contained in a metallic wire. The generating apparatus induces electric fields which point through the wire which cause acceleration of certain electrons in the wire, causing current.

In a physical electromagnetic system consisting of fields and particles, the total energy is the sum of both the kinetic energies of the moving particles, interaction of the particles's spin with the fields, plus the energy in the free-space fields.

What allows electrons to spin in perpetual motion.

Lack of any physical interactions which change it to zero.

edit on 27-10-2012 by mbkennel because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-10-2012 by mbkennel because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-10-2012 by mbkennel because: (no reason given)

And there are 2 types of currents....Alternating Current (AC) and Direct Current (DC)

reply to post by Phage


In your reply to my post your first sentence states exactly what I have written. You then wander off like you have something to prove.

You obviously have some knowledge in certain area but sometimes you just go off in a direction that seems to be all about proving you can prove someone else is wrong.

Out of respect I will be leaving this thread shortly so I won't be replying to you again - just being polite in case you feel the need to respond to this comment and possibly twist my words.

Much Peace...

Originally posted by SpittinTruth

Stop trying to TWIST everything i said, to benefit your willful IGNORANCE. The air IS A CONDUCTOR, whether it be for electricity or sound or frequencies. If it were such a "poor conductor".....we wouldn't have WIRELESS. Are you telling me, that the wireless signals, bounced from station to station is more powerful than lightening?

So, wireless radio signals don't go through space since there is no air there?

The point which you miss is that conductor of current (moving charges, like in lightning) is different from being able to support electromagnetic radiation. They are physically distinct properties and so have distinct effects and occur in different situations.

Vacuum of space can support electromagnetic waves without any matter. Matter can either be transparent to the fields or impede their propagation .

A "conductor of electricity" as in lightning or wires requires mobile free electrons which are able to move quickly in response to electric fields. Here, matter can assist the transmission of moving current as oppose to impede it.

In air as opposed to copper wire, there are very few mobile electrons. Lightning actually requires such powerful electric fields that it can rip off very tightly bound electrons from the air molecules which then collide with other air molecules releasing more electrons. In a good conductor such as copper, there are a substantial number of electrons which are very weakly or not at all bound to the positively charged nuclei and they are able to move rapidly in response to weak electric fields (measured by 'voltage' in practical terms).

Originally posted by SwissMarked
Want to know the easiest way to tell you're on to something...

Phange shows up... THE END...

I started the thread...and he jumped on it QUICKLY! That SURPRISED me, considering this is only my 2nd thread, in 6 years. And also, i'd like to respectfully ask, why some of my comments are being removed, if i'm the one who started this topic??? 1 Comment i understand why....but not sure about the other 2 that have been removed.

Is it so hard? Is it so hard to admit that we just don't bloody know?

A really good answer in science is

WE DO NOT KNOW

We don't know why electrons wizz around protons in spite of ripping molecules apart and rearranging them to form other bonds. We don't know how gravity works, we have no idea. Our understanding of electricity is nowhere as complete as some of you seem to believe.

Can matter be changed by application of a frequency delivered in a medium? Yes it can.

Is HAARP this goody gumdrops type of installation working to better mankind and bake apple pies? No, it is not.

I am sick to death of science that is:

Still in the 18th century
Bought and paid for by Multinationals. (Tobacco is safe! Sure it is)
Controlled by Governments for the manufacture of bigger and bigger weapons!

By the way, half an answer is not better than none. You skipped the hard questions

P

reply to post by Phage


You can technically be right 100% of the time. You're research can be full-proof, you're math can be correct on every point, and you're knowledge of anything based on evidence (text-books, papers) can be right only to an extent.

HAARP does schedule open houses, thats already known. This is where things can go wrong : HAARP has hidden technology underground, hidden rooms, hidden devices, top-notch scientists you've never heard of or will ever be able to see, and also is capable of weather manipulation. These are all hypotheticals by the way. The problem lies in you only knowing what you are allowed to know. You can't go and get 20 other people and start digging a tunnel toward the HAARP facility, and you can't be 100% sure that all the papers published through HAARP are the truth.

From you're stand-point, you're right. From another, wrong.

Say I published a paper on how I take a shower everyday.
You look at the papers, and you know this now.
Who says I will take a shower everyday though? The research shows I will, of course.
What if one day I don't want to? It would be impossible for you to know
unless you stayed by my side 24/7.

Its a really bad argument depending on what you're debating about, but this is the "Conspiracy Side". You haven't seen every room in HAARP, you haven't seen whats under HAARP, if there is anything. You haven't levitated above HAARP or built along side the scientists that built the facility to see what it is actually capable of. You're knowledge is based off what you're ALLOWED to know.

Don't get me wrong, you're right, and anyone who doesn't see that is pretty loco. But as far as the conspiracy side goes, you're wrong on all counts. You're text-book knowledge won't cut it if you're not God...Which I don't believe in.

Originally posted by pheonix358
Is it so hard? Is it so hard to admit that we just don't bloody know?

A really good answer in science is

WE DO NOT KNOW

We don't know why electrons wizz around protons in spit of ripping molecules apart and rearranging them to form other bonds. We don't know how gravity works, we have no idea. Our understanding of electricity is nowhere as complete as some of you seem to believe.

Can matter be changed by application of a frequency delivered in a medium? Yes it can.

Is HAARP this goody gumdrops type of installation working to better mankind and bake apple pies? No, it is not.

I am sick to death of science that is:

Still in the 18th century
Bought and paid for by Multinationals. (Tobacco is safe! Sure it is)
Controlled by Governments for the manufacture of bigger and bigger weapons!

By the way, half an answer is not better than none. You skipped the hard questions

P

You're right!!! WE don't know. But "they" sure as heck do...and "they" ain't afraid to use what "they know", against us! That's my case in point.

reply to post by SpittinTruth


I disagree! They don't know, that is the problem! Phage has no real idea of what happens up at HAARP. But he is quite willing to come here and tell others that HAARP is only for this or that.

I would much prefer answers that start with "When I was there for a tour ..." or "The literature that I have studies shows that ...."

Instead peoples ideas and concepts are put down, time and time again. He still hasn't answered my questions.

OMG! I must not be worthy! ROFL

P:

Originally posted by Vandettas
reply to post by Phage

 

You can technically be right 100% of the time. You're research can be full-proof, you're math can be correct on every point, and you're knowledge of anything based on evidence (text-books, papers) can be right only to an extent.

HAARP does schedule open houses, thats already known. This is where things can go wrong : HAARP has hidden technology underground, hidden rooms, hidden devices, top-notch scientists you've never heard of or will ever be able to see, and also is capable of weather manipulation. These are all hypotheticals by the way. The problem lies in you only knowing what you are allowed to know. You can't go and get 20 other people and start digging a tunnel toward the HAARP facility, and you can't be 100% sure that all the papers published through HAARP are the truth.

From you're stand-point, you're right. From another, wrong.

Say I published a paper on how I take a shower everyday.
You look at the papers, and you know this now.
Who says I will take a shower everyday though? The research shows I will, of course.
What if one day I don't want to? It would be impossible for you to know
unless you stayed by my side 24/7.

Its a really bad argument depending on what you're debating about, but this is the "Conspiracy Side". You haven't seen every room in HAARP, you haven't seen whats under HAARP, if there is anything. You haven't levitated above HAARP or built along side the scientists that built the facility to see what it is actually capable of. You're knowledge is based off what you're ALLOWED to know.

Don't get me wrong, you're right, and anyone who doesn't see that is pretty loco. But as far as the conspiracy side goes, you're wrong on all counts. You're text-book knowledge won't cut it if you're not God...Which I don't believe in.

GREAT PERSPECTIVE....until the: you don't believe in God, part. But, you do believe in Science and Science books...that pretty much favors a God, scientifically? People believe in a Science book written by man, but have a hard time with the BIBLE??? hahahahahha

Originally posted by pheonix358
reply to post by SpittinTruth

 

I disagree! They don't know, that is the problem! Phage has no real idea of what happens up at HAARP. But he is quite willing to come here and tell others that HAARP is only for this or that.

I would much prefer answers that start with "When I was there for a tour ..." or "The literature that I have studies shows that ...."

Instead peoples ideas and concepts are put down, time and time again. He still hasn't answered my questions.

OMG! I must not be worthy! ROFL

P:

Well, i was referring to "they", as in: our Government and top scientists. They KNOW more than they've led us to believe. Now, they may not "know it" 100% but they're working towards it.

Phage, MBKennel -

why try?

Ignorance is infinitely deep.

Just make up crap as you go.

They'll believe that sooner than fact.

Toodles

Frankenstorm was the name meteorologists used to describe Sandy in the first news story I read. Frankenstein, of course, was the construct of a madman. Hurricane mitigation is something that HAARP is being fine-tuned to perform. (In the off hours...when its' death ray weapon of total destruction capabilities are taking a break.)

Weapons of Total Destruction by Dan Eden

Viewzone also asked the inventor, Dr. Bernard Eastlund, about his technology.

If successful, it might be possible to prevent the formation of destructive tornadoes. This could be a very positive outgrowth of my original work. Further extrapolations of the technology may also be useful in hurricane mitigation.

The concept is called the Thunderstorm Solar Power Satellite. I presented a paper entitled, "Systems Considerations of Weather Modification Experiments Using High Power electromagnetic Radiation" at the "Workshop on Space Exploration and Resources Exploitation-Explospace 20-22 October, 1998, Cagliari, Sardinia, Italy.

It's possible that this is just another experiment on the public in order to perfect a weather modification weapon. Recipe: ingredients - 1 tropical storm and 1 unsuspecting population center; directions - first you agitate, then you mitigate. (Good luck.)

Originally posted by SwissMarked
Want to know the easiest way to tell you're on to something...

Phange shows up... THE END...

Now THAT's a conspiracy theory.

Hmm...

I like it.

One thing.
Phage is like a calculator. Punch in an equation and he'll kick out an answer.
You don't have a long division contest with a calculator.

I am curious.
Phage,
Have you read Judy Wood's book "Where did the towers go?"

When referring to the sharp turn to the west, I heard a TWC meteorologist say "We honestly have never seen this before with a system that originates in the tropics."

Originally posted by tinhattribunal
i was going to post and ask what harp status was and what the map means but i went and looked it up myself
...

HaarpStatus.com is a real-time sensor network from over 28 sensors placed in rural areas across the United States. The sensors can detect the HAARP frequency on the ionosphere. Monitors plasma and ions in the atmosphere trying to predict extreme weather anomalies, and solar radiation effects

Strongest readings in the history of this project have peaked. A never before seen white-shade indicates that a value higher than 10 on the 1-10 scale has been indicated. It has no color assigned!

I too went to HaarpStatus.com and frankly it looks pretty bogus to me. There is no explanation of how their 'sensors' work or even exactly what they monitor. There is no in-depth discussion on how the raw data is converted into the maps nor any way to see the raw data. Science geeks talk endlessly about their work.

Also there is no 'about us' telling us why they are doing this, how they set it up or what they hope to accomplish.

Nope, I'm not buying this site.

Doesn't mean the premise of the post is incorrect, just a reminder to check sources.

Do people like you even believe in natural weather anymore? Do you think atmospheric conditions are incapable of forming destructive storms that behave chaotically and do unexpected things? Have storms only been destructive and devastating since they turned the switch on at HAARP?

Given natural atmospheric chaos, is there anything about this storm that it is only possible to explain as human intervention?
Chaos does random things. When those random things are interacting with our non-random and highly structured world, strange coincidences will happen.
Kind of like interference patterns.

What would it take to happen with this storm that will NOT make you think that 'They controlled the weather'?
If the storm isnt as powerful as it might have been, is this just going to be evidence it was deflated somehow by HAARP?

And if you believe you must be onto something just because someone corrects your misunderstanding of physics, does that mean if Phage tells you can't walk off a 500 metre cliff and survive, 'you must be onto something'?
I dont think that is a very rational way of conducting your life, but the Darwin Awards will award your thinking with many accolades.

reply to post by SpittinTruth


And just what does THAT have to do with this thread??

Originally posted by TitanBCE
When referring to the sharp turn to the west, I heard a TWC meteorologist say "We honestly have never seen this before with a system that originates in the tropics."

And a star! Has anyone seen the jet stream REVERSE in path
historically? It is commonly east bound unless I'm mistaken... it
can take southern dips, and even a southwest 'goop loop' per se.
But the basic path is east. So what's the deal? Would you like
some extra barium salt on those aluminum chips? Lemme wave
them for you, they're much tastier WARMED UP.
A nor'easter was supposed to be indigenous to the upper New
England regions in years past-- but don't tell me and my Gary
Fisher 29'er that the head wind I'm regularly pedaling into is
'normal' for the Chicago suburbs in the last five years. Then we hear
of a documented 'inland hurricane'-- a cyclonic low packing real
water and winds over twenty minutes in excess of 120 MPH?!
"It might as well be Maine" mumbling as the left knee blows out.
Please don't start with Katrina being stirred up like a Gulf-of-
Mexico sized cauldron of potato soup with ion beams... but
water and other things tend to fill the areas with lesser pressure,
given. HAARP echoes at places that aren't supposed to have
facilities there? And a few hours later, "Honey I Soaked the Kids".
Question: does the interface (ALL the tech) produce artificial lows?
I just have a problem believing a storm of this magnitude can
be a result of directly orchestrated human technology, in however
many areas.
For the rest of us on this side of the veil, just a quickie..has the
government ever NOT taken credit for doing something noble?
There's another side to that door. It's why we're here. And if what
the government is doing in secret isn't quite so noble, it sure is
advertised in enough policy papers before the fact.
What a great alibi: "We can't use weather as a weapon, the UN
made it illegal." So what happened to impossible lately?

Note to self.

If I were making a haarp thread, such as this one, I would have a little more substance to back up the one claim by one "dude".

I am just saying, been there done that.

Keep up the good work, but the proof is not there.

The bookworms will eat this type of"evidence" for breakfast and ask for more.

I gave not given up though, I mainly keep it all to myself until someone somewhere screws up and leaves a little cookie on the table. I prefer nobake oatmeal. Others can eat crow then.

There is no way on this Earth that the HAARP array can directly turn a storm cell of this magnitude. I would doubt that all the power stations in the Continental US would put out enough energy to do that. Nor do the Haarp Antenna have the ability to focus huge amounts of energy. But:

Let us look at an analogy. Take the US Battle Carrier George W Bush. I could not directly turn the Carrier say by pushing it. It is silly to even contemplate doing so. However, at the back end of the George W Bush is a rudder. Inside The GWB is a wheel. If I turn the wheel, the ship turns.

If (and it is a big if) you can make small changes to a weather pattern near a super storm you may be able to influence that huge storm.

Another analogy, I can't push a freight train off the tracks, but with a small saw I can cut the track. The end result is that the freight train is off the track, but I caused it rather than did it.

Storms act in chaos, but when a storm does something that no other storm in history has ever done, then I may look at other possibilities.

P