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Is HAARP feeding SANDY? (The Conspiracy Side)

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posted on Oct, 29 2012 @ 11:58 PM
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reply to post by ErtaiNaGia
 


Yes, I should have clarified.... the walls of the eye are high pressure, while further out is low pressure.
Higher than the eye perhaps because the pressure drops the closer you get to the eye but not high pressure. It is still lower than the outlier areas.
ww2010.atmos.uiuc.edu...


Hence, water vapor (Thermal energy and mass) can alter the path of the Water Vapor Convection cell.

Premise understood?
No. If the storm encounters warmer waters (and incidentally, higher water vapor levels) it intensifies. If it encounters cooler waters it weakens. It does not change direction. The path of the storm is controlled by surrounding weather patterns.




posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 12:03 AM
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Originally posted by wujotvowujotvowujotvo
The 2000 paper was about a solar flare triggering Joule Heating in the ionosphere, that can be directly applied to HAARP.

Are you saying HAARP can't do Joule Heating?

That's new information because researchers found Joule Heating from HAARP.


Do you comprehend the meaning of "joule heating"?

I'm assuming you likely don't, from your use of it here.

There's just a tad more power in a flare than what you can apply with HAARP.



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 12:09 AM
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reply to post by Bedlam
 


Paper on which the finding is based :

iopscience.iop.org/1402-4896/2010/T142/014040

Physica Scripta Volume 2010 T142

J A Cohen et al 2010 Phys. Scr. 2010 014040 doi:10.1088/0031-8949/2010/T142/014040

Generation of ionospheric ducts by the HAARP HF heater

J A Cohen 1, R Pradipta 1, L M Burton 1, A Labno1, M C Lee 1,2, B J Watkins 3, C Fallen 3, S P Kuo 4, W J Burke 5, D Mabius 2 and B Z See 2

1 Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cambridge, MA 02139, USA
2 Boston University, Boston, MA 02215, USA
3 University of Alaska Fairbanks, Fairbanks, AK 99775, USA
4 New York University, Brooklyn, NY 11201, USA
5 Air Force Research Laboratory, Hanscom AFB, MA 01731, USA

We report an investigation of ionospheric ducts having the shape of large plasma sheets, generated by vertically transmitted HAARP HF heater waves in several experiments conducted in Gakona, Alaska. Theory predicts that O-mode heater wave-created ionospheric ducts form parallel-plate waveguides within the meridional plane, and those generated by the X-mode heater waves are orthogonal to the meridional plane. Our theoretical prediction is supported by measurements of ionosonde data (namely ionograms), range–time–intensity (RTI) plots of UHF and HF backscatter radars, as well as magnetometer data analyses. When these plasma sheets experienced E×B drifts, they were intercepted by the HAARP UHF radar and seen as slanted stripes in the RTI plots. This striking feature was also observed in our earlier experiments using the Arecibo UHF radar.


Joule Heating :

ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/articleDetails.jsp?arnumber=5992939


Excitation of large-scale plasma sheets and micropulsations by injected high power radio waves

This paper appears in:
Plasma Science (ICOPS), 2011 Abstracts IEEE International Conference on
Date of Conference: 26-30 June 2011
Author(s): Lee, M.C.
Boston Univ., Boston, MA, USA
Pradipta, R. ; Cohen, J.A. ; Morton, J. ; Watkins, B.J. ; Fallen, C. ; Kuo, S.P.
Page(s): 1
Product Type: Conference Publications

On page(s): 1
Conference Location : Chicago, IL
ISSN : 0730-9244
E-ISBN : 978-1-61284-328-5
Print ISBN: 978-1-61284-330-8
INSPEC Accession Number: 12182860
Digital Object Identifier : 10.1109/PLASMA.2011.5992939
Date of Current Version : 18 August 2011
Issue Date : 26-30 June 2011

Abstract

Summary form only given. We have conducted several experiments to investigate the simultaneous generation of large plasma sheets and micropulsations by injected high power radio waves via thermal filamentation instabilities [Cohen et al., Phys. Scrip., 2010]. These large plasma sheets generated by HF heater have different configurations, depending upon the polarizations (i.e., O- or X-mode) of the heater waves. It is expected that O-mode heater wave-created parallel-plate waveguides within the meridional plane, and those generated by the X-mode heater waves are orthogonal to the meridional plane. [Lee et al., Geophys. Res Lett., 1998]. One striking feature of thermal filamentation instabilities is the simultaneous excitation of sheet-like plasma density fluctuations (δn) and geomagnetic field fluctuations (δB). The physics can be simply understood as follows. The differential joule heating, resulting from the interactions of HF heater waves and excited high frequency sidebands, yields a thermal pressure force on electrons. Thermal pressure force (denoted by fT) leads to a fT × B0 drift motion of electrons and, consequently, induces a net current perpendicular to both the background magnetic field B0 and the wave vector k of the excited plasma density irregularities. Therefore, magnetic field fluctuations (δB) associated with micropulsations are excited along the background magnetic field (B0 designated as the z-axis) simultaneously with the density irregularities in both O- and X-mode heating processes. The excited magnetic field fluctuations (δB) have three components designated as dδBD, dδBH, and dδBZ. Based on above explanation of the simultaneous excitations of dδn and dδB, we can expect that dδBD and dδBZ (or dδBH and dδBZ) will be - - highly correlated in O-mode (or X-mode) heating experiments. Our theoretical predictions are confirmed by GPS satellite measurements, range-time-intensity (RTI) plots of UHF and HF backscatter radars, ionosonde data, as well as magnetometer data analyses. As these plasma sheets experienced E·B drifts, they were intercepted by the HAARP UHF radar and seen as slanted stripes in the RTI plots, as also seen in our earlier Arecibo experiments. Furthermore, based on the GPS satellite measurements, we infer that kilometer-scale plasma sheets can be generated by vertically injected O-mode heater waves.



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 12:16 AM
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Here's a question: Is this hurricane acting, 'normally'? Doesn't it seem to be taking an awful long time to die out? Hasn't it been a LONG journey for Sandy? Am i missing something here? This thing started, somewhere in Africa, right? What's driving it? Something...is making this thing, move the way it's moving, and i doubt it's warm water.



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 12:20 AM
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reply to post by wujotvowujotvowujotvo
 


A joule is a measurement. It can't be involved in heating anything. They are just taking words and stringing them together into technobabble.



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 12:21 AM
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reply to post by SpittinTruth
 


Sandy path





posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 12:23 AM
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reply to post by SpittinTruth
 


The storms don't start in Africa. The wave that becomes the storm starts there, but the storms themselves don't form until well into the Atlantic.

As for how long it's taking to dissipate, it depends on how organized they are. A highly organized storm at landfall, is going to last longer than one that starts to fall apart at sea. I've seen storms that come ashore, hammer the area they come ashore at, start to fall apart, then go back out to sea and reform into a hurricane.

Hell, there was even a storm once that missed Hawaii, hit Johnston Island, did a 180, and hit Hawaii on the way back through. There's no telling what they're going to do with any super accurate predictions.



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 12:34 AM
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reply to post by wujotvowujotvowujotvo
 


It was down in the same page you gave
I didn't see anything about a 22 year cycle with hurricanes in that article. No mention of geomagnetic activity. It doesn't seem to be giving any particular attention to the Mendoza paper. The other papers (15-37) posit other causes, including global warming due to CO2 levels.


Are you saying HAARP can't do Joule Heating?
I'm saying the paper had nothing to do with HAARP, at least there is no indication in the abstract that it does. It seems to be about figuring out how the solar wind induces gravity waves in the ionosphere. But in case you didn't notice, the paper I cited confirmed that HAARP produced gravity waves.


why would he write
You mean why would he ask? The question mark means he is asking, wondering. Maybe because he doesn't know.

edit on 10/30/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 01:16 AM
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reply to post by Bedlam
 


Pay attention class.


Not a strawman at all.


You are stating that I am stating that HAARP (the High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program out of gakona alaska) is being used in this capacity.

I quite clearly stated that this was being done by something closer to Nuclear vessel mounted phased antenna arrays, bounced off the atmosphere using the targeting information that was derived from HAARP, and their tests.


YOU are claiming that ionospheric heaters such as HAARP can heat the ocean in such a way as to cause significant changes in the level of water vapor. I invite you to do a tiny bit of maths.


You are claiming "Such as HAARP"

I am not.

HAARP lacks the power, and is too far away for the purposes.


I doubt you're up to it, though. It's so much more FUN to speculate wildly!


Oh?

Let's try this one out, shall we?



ok, so that's 108,000,000,000 lbs, right?

Ok, good....


The British thermal unit (symbol Btu or sometimes BTU) is a traditional unit of energy equal to about 1.055 KJoules. It is approximately the amount of energy needed to heat 1 pound (0.454 kg) of water, which is exactly one tenth of a UK gallon or about 0.1198 US gallons, from 39 °F to 40 °F (3.8 °C to 4.4 °C).

en.wikipedia.org...

Okay, so to heat the whole HURRICANE by one degree (CELSIUS), it would take 108,000,000,000 btu's

and one BTU is approximately 1,055 joules (Watt Seconds)

or, 113,940,000,000,000 joules (or watt seconds)

(113 terrajoules if you are counting) to increase the temperature of all of the water in a hurricane by one degree.

So.... your average naval nuclear reactor has about:

en.wikipedia.org...

about 100 Megawatts

That is roughly 100,000,000 joules per second.

Which for that one reactor, would take approximately 1,139,400 seconds (about 13 days)

Now... what if we had... 13 of these vessels?

Oh, that's right.... it would only take one day to increase the temperature of the entire hurricane by one degree.

And, over the course of 7 days (one week) that's a seven degree C increase in temperature.



So.... you were saying?



edit: if you like, instead of using the power output of the HAARP facility, try subbing in the entire generating capacity of the US, and go for, say, 10 cubic km of seawater over a year.


That's a ridiculous overestimate of the amount of water we would need to heat.....

And NOW, you know this.


second edit: you do realize that "The information of beam steering in the refractive regions of the ionosphere that were gleaned and categorized by the HAARP could be used to direct a concentration of several arrays of directed electromagnetic energy directly at the oceans surface in the "Path" that "They" want the hurricane to take." doesn't actually make sense, right? At least not in any technically valid way.


"The information of beam steering in the refractive regions of the ionosphere, that were gleaned and categorized by the HAARP; could be used to direct a concentration of several arrays of directed electromagnetic energy directly at the oceans surface in the "Path" that "They" want the hurricane to take."

There, I added the necessary punctuation... even a fool should be able to understand it now.... (Sheesh, grammer nazi's)


And any source that uses the term "the HAARP" should fill you with the same amount of trust as does someone who says "nukular".


"The HAARP."

As in... THE HIGH FREQUENCY ACTIVE AURORAL RESEARCH PROGRAM.

Are you feeling okay? Because you just went full-on [snip]



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 01:22 AM
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reply to post by Phage
 



Higher than the eye perhaps because the pressure drops the closer you get to the eye but not high pressure. It is still lower than the outlier areas.


That's all well and good, but your pressure map is STILL only a two dimensional representation, probably gathered from the coast guard storm chasers who fly modified c-130's ABOVE the hurricane to gather measurements.

Nice try though.


No. If the storm encounters warmer waters (and incidentally, higher water vapor levels) it intensifies. If it encounters cooler waters it weakens. It does not change direction. The path of the storm is controlled by surrounding weather patterns.


And what if it only encounters warmer waters on the north side, and not the south, east, or west sides?

Does the entire hurricane intensify?

Or is the intensification localized to the sections that actually encounter the water vapour?



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I'll get you yet, Khan.



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 01:30 AM
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Ya I heard Oct surprise on the Alex Jones show. You can learn a lot from that guy.



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 01:42 AM
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reply to post by ErtaiNaGia
 


Okay, so to heat the whole HURRICANE by one degree (CELSIUS), it would take 108,000,000,000 btu's
Why would you heat the hurricane when it is the ocean which provides the energy to maintain the hurricane?

To maintain the hurricane the water temperature has to be maintained. As you point out, it is the conversion of water into water vapor and back which maintains the hurricane. So we aren't warming water vapor we are converting water into water vapor. Remember, heat of vaporization? And the power supply is the heat contained in the ocean.


Total energy released through cloud/rain formation:

An average hurricane produces 1.5 cm/day (0.6 inches/day) of rain inside a circle of radius 665 km (360 n.mi) (Gray 1981). (More rain falls in the inner portion of hurricane around the eyewall, less in the outer rainbands.) Converting this to a volume of rain gives 2.1 x 1016 cm3/day. A cubic cm of rain weighs 1 gm. Using the latent heat of condensation, this amount of rain produced gives
5.2 x 10^19 Joules/day or
6.0 x 10^14 Watts.

This is equivalent to 200 times the world-wide electrical generating capacity - an incredible amount of energy produced!

www.aoml.noaa.gov...

Your numbers seem low. 6.0 x 10^14 Watts to keep the hurricane going. But lets say we only need to provide 1% of that power That's what? About 60,000 subs a day? Did I get the zero's right?



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 01:51 AM
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reply to post by ErtaiNaGia
 


That's all well and good, but your pressure map is STILL only a two dimensional representation, probably gathered from the coast guard storm chasers who fly modified c-130's ABOVE the hurricane to gather measurements.
Hurricane hunters fly through hurricanes and they don't use c-130's and they aren't the Coast Guard.

. Show me a profile of rising pressure in a hurricane.

The Hurricane Hunters are aircrews that fly into tropical cyclones in the North Atlantic Ocean and Northeastern Pacific Ocean to gather weather data.

en.wikipedia.org...



And what if it only encounters warmer waters on the north side, and not the south, east, or west sides?

Does the entire hurricane intensify?

Or is the intensification localized to the sections that actually encounter the water vapour?
Since it is the center of the low which drives the whole thing it doesn't really matter. When the low encounters warmer water it intensifies. When it encounters cooler water it weakens. It's not a trail of bread crumbs. It doesn't change direction. "Oh, that's cold. I'm not going there." If it were otherwise, it would never move into cooler waters.

The storm is steered by surrounding weather systems. Not water vapor, not warm water.
edit on 10/30/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 01:57 AM
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With china buying out Canada's oil now this sandy, I thought hmm.
Wonder if sandys gonna hit the refineries. Guess what., bingo! Ontario and surrounding area is where the main ones are located and directly in route.

What better way to screw china than "here's your oil,oops an act of god destroyed it" Hee Hee!

Look at 911 and the billions of gold "missing" below ground zero. Very suspicious!



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 01:57 AM
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reply to post by Phage
 



Why would you heat the hurricane when it is the ocean which provides the energy to maintain the hurricane?


Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand I am done talking to you.

You just sort of fell apart there, didn't ya Khan?



"Oh, But ErtaiNaGia... how can heating the water in a hurricane cause the hurricane (that gains its strength from warm moist air) to increase in strength?!"




Did I get the zero's right?


Joule is instantaneous power, watt is time averaged.

1 Joule = 1 watt over 1 second. (1 watt second)



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 02:01 AM
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reply to post by ErtaiNaGia
 


"Oh, But ErtaiNaGia... how can heating the water in a hurricane cause the hurricane (that gains its strength from warm moist air) to increase in strength?!"
I said warm water causes a hurricane to intensify. I said it doesn't alter it's path.



edit on 10/30/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 02:10 AM
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reply to post by Phage
 



Hurricane hunters fly through hurricanes and they don't use c-130's and they aren't the Coast Guard.




Coast Guard... check

C-130.... check

Through.... check

Okay, one out of three ain't bad.

The weather channel has some interesting weather related shows.. you should check it out...



Show me a profile of rising pressure in a hurricane.


A three dimensional model of hurricane pressures?

lol

en.wikipedia.org...

Deduction from first principle Phage... don't you do any original research?


Since it is the center of the low which drives the whole thing it doesn't really matter. When the low encounters warmer water it intensifies. When it encounters cooler water it weakens. It's not a trail of bread crumbs. It doesn't change direction. "Oh, that's cold. I'm not going there." If it were otherwise, it would never move into cooler waters.

The storm is steered by surrounding weather systems. Not water vapor, not warm water.


And what causes the low pressure?

What drives the entire heat engine Phage?

Do you not see the delicate interrelationship between the water vapour, and the pressure system?

The condensation of the water CAUSES a reduction in pressure due to the water taking up less space (water vapour takes up 1640 times the space of an equal weight of liquid water)

The low pressure system is maintained by the interrelationships of the spinning and spiralling pressure systems.

Altering the energy levels of the water vapour on only one side WILL alter the pressure differentials in the storm system as a whole.

NOT MUCH, I grant you... but it WILL.



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 02:13 AM
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reply to post by Phage
 



Phage
Why would you heat the hurricane when it is the ocean which provides the energy to maintain the hurricane?




"Oh, But ErtaiNaGia... how can heating the water in a hurricane cause the hurricane (that gains its strength from warm moist air) to increase in strength?!"


I said warm water causes a hurricane to intensify. I said it doesn't alter it's path.


Your move.



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 02:17 AM
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reply to post by ErtaiNaGia
 


Actually, zero out of three. The Hurricane Hunters belong to the US Air Force Reserve. They are the 53rd Weather Reconnaissance out of Keesler AFB, Mississippi. They are the only military weather reconnaissance unit.

www.hurricanehunters.com...



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 02:17 AM
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You ever seen this Phage?

It's an interesting idea... and relevant... if you can see the connection....





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