Who was Jesus Father, and who is Jesus??

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


That's because your eyes are not opened,

You see everything clearly,

Yet you're perfectly blind,

By your own volition,

You've turned from the Truth,

To embrace lies,

I pray the Merciful Allah will have mercy on you and shed His grace and expose you to His Real Word (The Holy Bible, not the Somewhat Holy Quran), and His Only Begotten Son, Jesus Christ, who was NOT just a "great prophet" or "Masterful Teacher", but was, is, and forever will be the Eternal Lord of All, including you.

Blessings, Peace and Wisdom,

Amen

reply to post by jmdewey60


I find it ironic somebody who has a background in a cult-like apostate church (Seventh Day Adventist), who's beliefs and theology is based on false prophet(s), calling True Israelites "cult followers",

Oh, the ironies of this life, they are endless,

Praise Yah

reply to post by godlover25

I pray the Merciful Allah will have mercy on you and shed His grace and expose you to His Real Word (The Holy Bible, not the Somewhat Holy Quran), and His Only Begotten Son, Jesus Christ, who was NOT just a "great prophet" or "Masterful Teacher", but was, is, and forever will be the Eternal Lord of All, including you.

1, Jesus NEVER said he was the eternal Lord.

2 You are right, Jesus was NOT just a "great prophet" or "Masterful Teacher". He was THE messiah, as Islam teaches.

Every muslim who knows his religion accepts Jesus as messiah. In fact, any muslim who denies Jesus as THE messiah is not a muslim.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Islams view of the Messiah is corrupted and contradictory,

I'm not going to delve into it here because other scholars already have and you're on computer on the internet, the information is there, the research is done, the Truth is available, seek and ye shall find,

Plus I don't want to insult your beliefs or cause bitterness to come between me and you,

We are all one Creature under the Mighty Hand of One Allah,

God bless you,

Amen

reply to post by godlover25

I find it ironic somebody who has a background in a cult-like apostate church (Seventh Day Adventist), who's beliefs and theology is based on false prophet(s), calling True Israelites "cult followers",

Oh, the ironies of this life, they are endless,

Praise Yah

"True Israelites" sounds like a cult to me.
I could give arguments why your cult is apostate and I am sure you could not give a reason why mine might be.
If you deny the spirit of prophecy, you are going directly against the New Testament where Paul says the most important gift for the church is there being prophets.
Your accusations of falseness I believe is putting yourself in danger of damnation by ridiculing the spirit and by implication, God Himself.

Jesus = Son of the Right Hand

one day people will eventualy find him
he has to be reincarnated into someone
but who ? obviously he doesnt have the same name anymore
every one had past lifes .. with different names

he is the Son of Man .. First Son of God in real flesh
people that wait for his return from the sky are wrong

after all we are all Son and Daughters of God !
some are younger and some are older

6 billions Son and Daughter
thats a lot of demi gods lol

reply to post by jmdewey60


The meaning of True Israelites went over your head because you don't have the Spirit,

I belong to no entity called "True Israelites",

I was speaking of Spiritual Israel,

God's Chosen People,

The True Jew's who have accepted there Father, and there Messiah, and sealed there eternal fate through faith in the Grace of the Gospel revealed to us through His 66 Book Love Letter,

I pray He reveals the Way, the Truth, and the Life unto you and your family,

and that He may lift the fog from your eyes,

Your brother in Christ,

Amen

reply to post by Ben81


You're half right and half missing the mark,

Your theology is off,

I say this out of love as a fellow Brother in Christ Jesus and as a fellow seeker of Truth, Knowledge, and Wisdom,

Pick up a Holy Bible and read the Proverbs and Psalms,

then move on to Matthew, Mark and Acts,

Let me know when (if) you've accomplished these tasks,

Blessings to you and your family,

In the Most Holy Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,

Amen

reply to post by godlover25


This thread is just PAINFUL to read... such nonsence...

I've heard people say Jesus had a different "father" from the "violent" God of the OT.

YHWH is not violent, because if He was, Jesus would be violent, because Jesus is God (YHWH).

Logic fail... Have you actually read the OT?

Not only is the OT God violent, he/she/it is merciless, wrathful, vengeful... and ulitimately a pathetic excuse for a so called "God"...

The Jews were always trying to stone Jesus because He was claiming to fulfill scriptures,

True... but...

He also claimed to be God,

That is a lie... and you know it.

He forgave Sins, and He supplemented OT Laws (Only God can do these things) so Jesus claimed to be God many many times!

Many many times?

So not only have you not read the OT, but it seems you haven't read the gospels either... He didn't claim to be God EVER... NOT one single time...

And he didn't supplement OT laws... He gave the original laws that were always in effect... the ones that can't be changed... Many of the OT laws were never laws to begin with.... They were mans laws, NOT Gods...

By Jesus saying I AM, and using the Covenant name of Yah, He is reassuring He is God

By using the term I AM... he is refering to the essence of God... Not saying I AM God in the flesh, like you christians believe...

After Jesus crucifixion and subsequent Resurrection, He says to His disciples, before His ascension:

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.

*sigh*

Lets see what else he said after his "resurrection".... Do you remember where he said he was headed?

John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Yahshua Messiah, Jesus the Christ of Nazareth, born of the Virgin Mary who was betrothed to Joseph a Son of David, is YHWH in the Flesh, Fully Human and Fully God, and the same yesterday, today, and forevermore

Another lie... Jesus is nothing like the OT God...

You know not what you speak my friend...

Honestly these Jesus is God threads should have their own Catagory on this forum... theres far too many of them... and not a single one has proven Jesus was God... simply because HE never said he was God.

That is the only undeniable fact....

Jesus was the SON OF GOD... like he actually said he was... Not God in the flesh like others claimed of him.

:bnghd:

reply to post by Akragon



I'm sorry Akragon,

I just can't endorse your denial of Truth and your false judgements on God,

Although I love you and He loves you though you slander His Good Name through an insufficient knowledge of Him, I forgive you and I'm sure if I'm willing to forgive you He will,

All will be revealed to you in due time,

God cannot be Righteous and Just if He doesn't exercise Authority and Judgement on the wicked,

But as for now, we see through the glass dimly,

But later, we will see face to face,

God bless,

Amen

reply to post by Akragon


If Jesus wasn't God then He was insane (Lord forgive me for even saying that) or He was a liar (Father forgive us), or he just simply didn't exist (which is impossible, there is a staggering amount of overwhelming evidence to prove the Gospels as reliable testimonies).

Christ was crucified for saying He was God, the Pharisees tried to stone him several times for committing acts only God can do (forgiving sins and supplementing the Law), and there's a million other reasons why He's God, but this has been beat more than a dead horse, so I'll let the Truth speak for Himself.....

My point is, take your pick and choose which it is.

Was Jesus insane for saying He was God? Was he lying? Did he simply just not exist?

There is no in between,

Jesus is not just a good teacher, He's not just another "son of God" like we are,

He is the Messiah, the anointed One of God, the Saviour of Mankind,

Take your pick,

Either you believe Jesus Christ is God,

Or you believe Jesus was a lunatic, liar, or simply a figure of human imagination that millions of people have died for proclaiming He was God and gone to the grave holding to that faith and belief.....

If you believe Jesus was just a prophet, why don't you believe in Allah and the Quran? Or why aren't you a Bahai? Or are you just a new age mixture of all different beliefs?

The problem with not having faith in the Rock, and not being grounded and built on the foundation of Christ, is that you will be swayed to and fro with all kinds of false doctrines and deceptions because you have no gold standard, so to speak, to compare things you hear with, so your constantly changing your beliefs, and possibly your morals....

I just care about you and want you to know the Truth and have the best now and in the next life,

And I don't like seeing my brothers in flesh being led astray with all kinds of cunning devices and false doctrines of men....

Blessings,

Amen

reply to post by godlover25

The True Jew's who have accepted there Father, and there Messiah, and sealed there eternal fate through faith in the Grace of the Gospel revealed to us through His 66 Book Love Letter,

You belong to the cult with no name, is that right?
A proper name is not a requirement of being a cult, in fact the most pernicious of cults does not use a name at all for itself.
Paul said there was no salvation in the Law, and he gave it up, though according to it he was blameless.
The New Testament describes the real Israel, meaning those who receive the blessings from God, better blessings than were in the old testament. Where Israel is used figuratively to refer to a spiritual kingdom not of this world.
Your cultishness shows through in your statement that you can secure your own salvation through your own efforts.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Define cult and define what you consider blessings,

I know your tricks dewey, I've been a reader of ATS for years and I've seen you here for a long time saying the same nonsense over and over.

It's a real sleigh trick you try to pull,

But myself and other True Israelites call you out on your phoniness,

and your typical reply is that we are "cultish"

Is that the best insult you can think of to hurl at the believers in the One who's Name you claim?

Nevertheless,

I forgive you and I love you,

In Jesus Mighty Name,

Amen

reply to post by godlover25

If Jesus wasn't God then He was insane

What kind of arguement is that?

Either he was God or he was crazy?

That is basically two false statements... neither of which have any biblical basis... At least not according to what he actually said, which is all that really matters either way

Pure religious Brainwashing... nothing more

Christ was crucified for saying He was God

SON of God... Which equates to the same thing in Judaism... Any reference to an association with God is considered blasphemy to a "pharisee"... and even to this day those of the Jewish faith won't even type the word God... You'll notice they use G-d...

Pharisees tried to stone him several times for committing acts only God can do

So the son of God would not be able to perform miracles?

Interesting....

and there's a million other reasons why He's God, but this has been beat more than a dead horse, so I'll let the Truth speak for Himself.....

The truth does speak for "himself"... He called himself the son of God...

He did not however say "i am God" in any way shape or form...

Was Jesus insane for saying He was God? Was he lying? Did he simply just not exist?

How do you get these conclusions when he clearly stated i am the son of God?

He Never said he was God... so how could he be insane or lying for saying something he didn't say?

Whoever Told you he was God was lying to you... IF you actually read his words, you can clearly see he was NOT God... and never claimed to be God.

Let me show you what you're doing here in the simplest terms possible...

2 + 2 =

A. 3

Or

B. 5

No other options.... Now you must pick which is correct...

Four is NOT an option because your church says so

Make sense?

Neither does your arguement...

There is no in between,

Jesus is not just a good teacher, He's not just another "son of God" like we are,

Now this is interesting... Christians believe there is only one "begotten son" of God...

What flavor of Christian are you anyways?

He is the Messiah, the anointed One of God, the Saviour of Mankind,

Take your pick,

All three sound good to me.... Its the "Jesus was God" thing i take issue with...

Either you believe Jesus Christ is God,

Or you believe Jesus was a lunatic, liar,

Logic fail.... again!

you're missing the one option that he actually gave, as opposed to what your church taught you...

He was the SON OF GOD... as he said

or simply a figure of human imagination that millions of people have died for proclaiming He was God and gone to the grave holding to that faith and belief.....

Its not my problem if people don't read what he said... Most prefer to listen people preach the bible as opposed to reading what he said for themselves.

Why do you think there are so many conflictions between "christian" denominations...

If you believe Jesus was just a prophet, why don't you believe in Allah and the Quran? Or why aren't you a Bahai? Or are you just a new age mixture of all different beliefs?

Im not anything... my beliefs are my own and they don't require a label...

The problem with not having faith in the Rock, and not being grounded and built on the foundation of Christ, is that you will be swayed to and fro with all kinds of false doctrines and deceptions because you have no gold standard, so to speak, to compare things you hear with, so your constantly changing your beliefs, and possibly your morals....

Pardon my bluntnsss... but what a load of Crap

You've clearly never read or participated in any of my threads.,.

I just care about you and want you to know the Truth and have the best now and in the next life,

And I don't like seeing my brothers in flesh being led astray with all kinds of cunning devices and false doctrines of men

I appreciate your concern... but if this is the case how in Gods name can you compare Jesus with the God of the OT?

Again i have to ask... Have you actually read the OT or the gospels?

Or did you just come here to parrot what your religion has taught you?

reply to post by Akragon

I'm glad you jumped in here. Being compared to Satan by the OP, and then being told (erroneously) how I feel about the creator rather put me off.

how in Gods name can you compare Jesus with the God of the OT?

Again i have to ask... Have you actually read the OT or the gospels?

That's the question that I'd like to see answered by the OP. "You who love the Torah, have you read the Torah?"

reply to post by pthena


I've even heard one person who will remain nameless... (you know who you are) state openly... Jesus was the torah made flesh...

Im sorry but i couldn't help but laugh out loud when i read that...

Funny you mentioned satan though my friend... I wonder how many Christians have ever read the satanic bible because the ninth declaration of that faith is as follows.

9.Satan is the best friend the Church has ever had, as he has kept it in business all these years

Ironic?

reply to post by Akragon

Jesus was the torah made flesh...

Right out of Philo (Jewish/Egyptian/Greekesque Philosopher) of the 1st Century. I quit reading Wright's book The Evolution of God once I got to Philo.

He (Philo) went to great lengths to sound logical in the Greek manner. Monotheism, Logos ie. Wisdom(Sophia) as hypostasis of the God. But then he showed his apologetic in support of Judaism by identifying the Logos with the Torah, which I suppose was his real purpose in writing.

So: Logos=Torah=Jesus is what exactly? Messianic Philo Judaism?

As for Satan: a satan(small s) is an opposer. I for one believe that some things really should be opposed.

reply to post by godlover25

Islams view of the Messiah is corrupted and contradictory,
I'm not going to delve into it here because other scholars already have and you're on computer on the internet, the information is there, the research is done, the Truth is available, seek and ye shall find,

People who know me here know that I used to have Christian beliefs, not different from what you believe.

And then thanks to the internet and the information it contains, I did my own research and come to my conclusions.

reply to post by Akragon

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by godlover25

 

John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Shhhh... not so loud.

It might disturb people who believe Jesus is the God himself.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

I had a thread a few years ago in which I quoted from Acts chapter 3:

19 “Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out, so that there may come times of refreshing from the presence of the Lord, 20 and that he may send Christ Jesus, who was ordained for you before, 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God spoke long ago by the mouth of his holy prophets.

I was a little surprised at the positive response I got from Muslims. I have since learned that this idea is consistent with Islam since there are at least two places in Qur'an that mention God taking Jesus Christ unto himself.

From that, I think the teaching of occulting of Jesus until the end times comes. Hidden. I don't think that authentic unbiased evidence exists that Jesus ever lived. If anyone knows of such evidence, I'd like to read about it.