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Who was Jesus Father, and who is Jesus??

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posted on Oct, 27 2012 @ 09:30 AM
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This is going to be a somewhat quick topic, but I'll do the best I can.

I am going to come right out and tell everyone, Jesus Father that He prayed to, was YHWH Elohim, the God of the Old Testament, Jesus Father was the God of our Fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob, the God of Joseph and the God of Job (The Patriarchs).

Jesus Father is the Creator of the Heaven (the Universe, the sky/firmament) and the Earth. To the Patriarchs he was known as God Almighty (In Hebrew, El Shaddai),

I've heard people say Jesus had a different "father" from the "violent" God of the OT.

YHWH is not violent, because if He was, Jesus would be violent, because Jesus is God (YHWH).

Exodus 3:13 Then Moses said to God, “Indeed, when I come to the children of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they say to me, ‘What is His name?’ what shall I say to them?”

14 And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’” 15 Moreover God said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel: ‘The Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My name forever, and this is My memorial to all generations.’

Here we have Jesus praying to His father:

John 17 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, 2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should[a] give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. 4 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.



In Luke chapter 4, after Jesus being tempted by the devil in the wilderness after 40 days of fasting (similar to how Moses fasted 40 days), we have Jesus reading the scroll of Isaiah and saying the Spirit of the "LORD" is upon me!. Who is the LORD? The LORD is YHWH, the God of the Old Testament, the Old Covenant, the God of Moshe and the Israelites, the God of Heaven and Earth, and the God of All Flesh!

Luke 4:16 So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read. 17 And He was handed the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when He had opened the book, He found the place where it was written:

18 “The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me,
Because He has anointed Me
To preach the gospel to the poor;
He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,[j]
To proclaim liberty to the captives
And recovery of sight to the blind,
To set at liberty those who are oppressed;
19 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord.”[k]

20 Then He closed the book, and gave it back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all who were in the synagogue were fixed on Him. 21 And He began to say to them, “Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.” 22 So all bore witness to Him, and marveled at the gracious words which proceeded out of His mouth. And they said, “Is this not Joseph’s son?”

23 He said to them, “You will surely say this proverb to Me, ‘Physician, heal yourself! Whatever we have heard done in Capernaum,[l] do also here in Your country.’” 24 Then He said, “Assuredly, I say to you, no prophet is accepted in his own country. 25 But I tell you truly, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elijah, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, and there was a great famine throughout all the land; 26 but to none of them was Elijah sent except to Zarephath,[m] in the region of Sidon, to a woman who was a widow. 27 And many lepers were in Israel in the time of Elisha the prophet, and none of them was cleansed except Naaman the Syrian.”

28 So all those in the synagogue, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath, 29 and rose up and thrust Him out of the city; and they led Him to the brow of the hill on which their city was built, that they might throw Him down over the cliff. 30 Then passing through the midst of them, He went His way.


The Jews were always trying to stone Jesus because He was claiming to fulfill scriptures, He also claimed to be God, He forgave Sins, and He supplemented OT Laws (Only God can do these things) so Jesus claimed to be God many many times!

John 8:57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”

58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

By Jesus saying I AM, and using the Covenant name of Yah, He is reassuring He is God, that's why the Jews wanted to stone Him!!!

After Jesus crucifixion and subsequent Resurrection, He says to His disciples, before His ascension:

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.

Finally, from the first Epistle of John in chapter 5:

6 This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.

9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater; for this is the witness of God which He has testified of His Son.


I can go on and give hundreds more Scriptural proofs and billions of people can testify to this!

The fact of this whole matter is:

YaHWeH Elohim (The LORD GOD of the Old Covenant, God of Adam, God of Noah, God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and all Patriarchs, the God of Moses and the Israelites) is the Creator and Maker of the Universe and the Earth, and the God of all Flesh,

Yahshua Messiah, Jesus the Christ of Nazareth, born of the Virgin Mary who was betrothed to Joseph a Son of David, is YHWH in the Flesh, Fully Human and Fully God, and the same yesterday, today, and forevermore,

And there Mighty Holy Spirit, there Ruach Ha Kodesh still speaks to all flesh to this day, and will forever even unto the New Heaven and New Earth, and unto eternity,

Hebrews 13:7 Remember those who rule over you, who have spoken the word of God to you, whose faith follow, considering the outcome of their conduct. 8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. 9 Do not be carried about[c] with various and strange doctrines. For it is good that the heart be established by grace, not with foods which have not profited those who have been occupied with them.

Repent ye, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand,

May you all be blessed, in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, Amen

edit on 27-10-2012 by godlover25 because: grammar




posted on Oct, 27 2012 @ 09:36 AM
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Bravo! Well said. S&F. Jesus is the only begotten son of GOD. He is the way the truth and the light and no man may come unto the father save through Jesus.



posted on Oct, 27 2012 @ 09:37 AM
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This should explain all:

www.fourwinds10.net...

97% of people (including on this site) has labeled this a HOAX.

DO NOT BE FOOLED. THEY CALL THEM SELVES SEEKERS OF TRUTH BUT ARE SO EASILY MISLEAD.



posted on Oct, 27 2012 @ 09:45 AM
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reply to post by Sinny
 


Consider the short, foolish, unthoughtful reply of this one "Sinny" compared with the Mighty, Powerful, FULL OF GRACE and TRUTH, Words of the Infallible, Unstoppable, Eternal King of Kings, God Almighty!

Psalm 14:14 The fool has said in his heart,
“There is no God.”
They are corrupt,
They have done abominable works,
There is none who does good.

2 The Lord looks down from heaven upon the children of men,
To see if there are any who understand, who seek God.
3 They have all turned aside,
They have together become corrupt;
There is none who does good,
No, not one.

4 Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge,
Who eat up my people as they eat bread,
And do not call on the Lord?
5 There they are in great fear,
For God is with the generation of the righteous.
6 You shame the counsel of the poor,
But the Lord is his refuge.

7 Oh, that the salvation of Israel would come out of Zion!
When the Lord brings back the captivity of His people,
Let Jacob rejoice and Israel be glad.



posted on Oct, 27 2012 @ 09:46 AM
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YaHWeH Elohim (The LORD GOD of the Old Covenant, God of Adam, God of Noah, God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and all Patriarchs, the God of Moses and the Israelites) is the Creator and Maker of the Universe and the Earth, and the God of all Flesh,

Yahshua Messiah, Jesus the Christ of Nazareth, born of the Virgin Mary who was betrothed to Joseph a Son of David, is YHWH in the Flesh, Fully Human and Fully God, and the same yesterday, today, and forevermore,


What do you think it means for Jesus Christ to be fully man and fully God?

And referring to your comment about Sinny's "thoughtless and 'foolish'" comment, remember what Jesus Christ said about those who call others fools... Although I do not like to emphasize the hell fire and brimstone, Father loves Sinny as much as He loves you. "Forgive us our trespasses as you forgive those who trespass against us."

For a smart guy, I really advise you to take a step back sometimes.
edit on 27-10-2012 by DelayedChristmas because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 27 2012 @ 09:47 AM
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reply to post by godlover25
 




Consider the short, foolish, unthoughtful reply of this one "Sinny" compared with the Mighty, Powerful, FULL OF GRACE and TRUTH, Words of the Infallible, Unstoppable, Eternal King of Kings, God Almighty!


Bloody hell - Talk about being on yer high horse! lmao

I'd also take this opportunity to point out your own short comings in the facts that:

1) How could my post be unthoughtful when I had to think in order to type?
2) How can I be foolish - Psalm 14:14 The fool has said in his heart,
“There is no God.” - When I have stated no such thing.

Let he without sin cast the first stone - mehhh - Here's me turning the other cheek - May your "God" have mercy on your soul!

Practice what you preach, and you shall reap what you sow.

Lulz.
edit on 27-10-2012 by Sinny because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 27 2012 @ 09:52 AM
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reply to post by godlover25
 


Yeah but the historical jesus was a man of indifference. Sure he loved his followers and people who lived pious or morally chaste lives, but if you were not of his kindred you would be shunned.

Matthew 15:22
And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.

26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.
28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

He was willing to let the 'dog' die, because they are not 'his children'. But as soon as she accepts her denomination amongst his flock, as a 'dog', then she shows faith, and he heals her daughter.

What a tosser. lol

no wonder his mate dobbed him in for the reward



posted on Oct, 27 2012 @ 09:54 AM
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reply to post by DelayedChristmas
 


He was born in the womb of a woman (His flesh, His Being - Spirit/Soul, are from times of old, from everlasting) but when He incarnated He took on mortal flesh. Though He was born without the original stain of sin, so He would become the perfect, unblemished Passover Lamb of God for all of humanity.

While He walked earth, He grew tried, got hungry, and had human characteristics and weaknesses. He obviously wasn't omnipresent in His physical body, and obviously not Omniscient in His physical body, but He took on those traits after His resurrection, from conception to death He was basically a highly-enlightened, but human soul/spirit/body. After He died, He roamed Hades and preached to imprisoned Spirits there, and after He Rose, he opened the doors to Paradise.

This is my current exegesis and there are other Theologians who have things pegged quite a bit better than myself,

My time is running short and I must depart in the next few minutes,

But I would suggest reading writings of C.S. Lewis, Dr. Hugh Ross, Ravi Zacharias, William Lane Craig,

also websites such as www.biologos.org and www.reasons.org and also http...://jandyongenesis.blogspot.com/


There are also many great theories and explanations for reconciling Genesis to current scientific model,

There are some absolutely brilliant OEC (Old Earth Creationist) theories, specifically, the one I like most, day-age theory. There's also gap-theory, creative evolution and theistic evolution.

Also, Young Earth Creation / Intelligent Design, have put together some very compelling arguments as well,

Regardless of which interpretation is correct, the bottom line is Genesis is the Truth, and the Holy Bible is the raw, unadulterated truth, and Christ Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life,

God bless us all,

Amen



posted on Oct, 27 2012 @ 09:55 AM
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Originally posted by winofiend
reply to post by godlover25
 


Yeah but the historical jesus was a man of indifference. Sure he loved his followers and people who lived pious or morally chaste lives, but if you were not of his kindred you would be shunned.

Matthew 15:22
And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.

26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.
28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

He was willing to let the 'dog' die, because they are not 'his children'. But as soon as she accepts her denomination amongst his flock, as a 'dog', then she shows faith, and he heals her daughter.

What a tosser. lol

no wonder his mate dobbed him in for the reward


21 And Jesus went away from there and withdrew to the district of Tyre and Sidon. 22 And behold, a Canaanite woman from that region came out and was crying, “Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David; my daughter is severely oppressed by a demon.” 23 But he did not answer her a word. And his disciples came and begged him, saying, “Send her away, for she is crying out after us.” 24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” 25 But she came and knelt before him, saying, “Lord, help me.” 26 And he answered, “It is not right to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs.” 27 She said, “Yes, Lord, yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table.” 28 Then Jesus answered her, “O woman, great is your faith! Be it done for you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed instantly.

They are speaking in metaphors and figurative language.



posted on Oct, 27 2012 @ 09:58 AM
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Jesus's father was Enki



posted on Oct, 27 2012 @ 09:58 AM
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reply to post by winofiend
 


I like how you take scripture out of context, with little to no understanding of it, and try to use it against the Almighty....

Just like Satan.

Let's see the verse in context, and its true meaning:

Matthew 15:21 Then Jesus went out from there and departed to the region of Tyre and Sidon. 22 And behold, a woman of Canaan came from that region and cried out to Him, saying, “Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David! My daughter is severely demon-possessed.”

Then His disciples were acting like "tossers", not the Almighty Himself:

Matthew 15:23 But He answered her not a word.

And His disciples came and urged Him, saying, “Send her away, for she cries out after us.”

24 But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”


and lets see how this story ends?

Matthew 15:25 Then she came and worshiped Him, saying, “Lord, help me!”

26 But He answered and said, “It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the little dogs.”

27 And she said, “Yes, Lord, yet even the little dogs eat the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.”

28 Then Jesus answered and said to her, “O woman, great is your faith! Let it be to you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed from that very hour.


So Jesus ended up healing her, NOT just saying a "mean" thing to her and throwing her aside,

like you would probably do, seeing as how you have no belief in anyone or anything but yourself,

Nice try,

Who's next?

I only have 2 minutes left, then I must depart.

God bless,

Amen



posted on Oct, 27 2012 @ 09:58 AM
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Originally posted by godlover25
reply to post by DelayedChristmas
 


He was born in the womb of a woman (His flesh, His Being - Spirit/Soul, are from times of old, from everlasting) but when He incarnated He took on mortal flesh. Though He was born without the original stain of sin, so He would become the perfect, unblemished Passover Lamb of God for all of humanity.

While He walked earth, He grew tried, got hungry, and had human characteristics and weaknesses. He obviously wasn't omnipresent in His physical body, and obviously not Omniscient in His physical body, but He took on those traits after His resurrection, from conception to death He was basically a highly-enlightened, but human soul/spirit/body. After He died, He roamed Hades and preached to imprisoned Spirits there, and after He Rose, he opened the doors to Paradise.

This is my current exegesis and there are other Theologians who have things pegged quite a bit better than myself,

My time is running short and I must depart in the next few minutes,

But I would suggest reading writings of C.S. Lewis, Dr. Hugh Ross, Ravi Zacharias, William Lane Craig,

also websites such as www.biologos.org and www.reasons.org and also http...://jandyongenesis.blogspot.com/


There are also many great theories and explanations for reconciling Genesis to current scientific model,

There are some absolutely brilliant OEC (Old Earth Creationist) theories, specifically, the one I like most, day-age theory. There's also gap-theory, creative evolution and theistic evolution.

Also, Young Earth Creation / Intelligent Design, have put together some very compelling arguments as well,

Regardless of which interpretation is correct, the bottom line is Genesis is the Truth, and the Holy Bible is the raw, unadulterated truth, and Christ Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life,

God bless us all,

Amen


Do not parrot what you have been taught. I am asking you personally and to critically analyze what you have been taught, what do YOU think it means that Jesus is fully man and fully God.

But since you are leaving I will say this:
my take on how Jesus can be fully man and fully God: mankind is given a spirit of man. Jesus Christ's spirit is one of Father's spirits, thus he is the begotten Son of God. He is fully human because he was given a flesh vessel.
edit on 27-10-2012 by DelayedChristmas because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 27 2012 @ 10:01 AM
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reply to post by DelayedChristmas
 


He knows your emotions and your struggles and your temptations since He is fully man,

He knows everything about you and everything there is to know about everyone,

He is going to judge you, no matter what you believe or not,

I must go now,

In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, GOd bless



posted on Oct, 27 2012 @ 10:02 AM
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reply to post by godlover25
 


"He is going to judge you"

That ladies and gents is the biggest lie of all


ETA: Who gave god a penis anyway?


Flaws, flaws everywhere - in your knickers in your hair

edit on 27-10-2012 by Sinny because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 27 2012 @ 10:14 AM
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its all from before

the FATHER = Osiris
the SON = Horus
the HOLY SPIRIT = (Ra) the Sun.....from ancient egypt
edit on 27-10-2012 by thePharaoh because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 27 2012 @ 11:33 AM
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reply to post by godlover25
 

I've heard people say Jesus had a different "father" from the "violent" God of the OT.

YHWH is not violent, because if He was, Jesus would be violent, because Jesus is God (YHWH).
This looks like some sort of anti-logic to me.
I think normal logic would say that since the God Jesus represented commanded people to be good to others even if they do not belong to your narrowly defined ethnic group, it could not be the same deity type person described in the old testament.



posted on Oct, 27 2012 @ 11:38 AM
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I recommend Jesus: The Evidence by Ian Wilson, if you are actually interested in learning about the historical person. He also wrote The Shroud: The 2000-Year-Old Mystery Solved which I think is one of the best books ever written on that subject.



posted on Oct, 27 2012 @ 12:10 PM
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reply to post by godlover25
 


Your mental capacity is equal to that of a gnat. You Jesus freaks prove this on a daily bases with your infantile ignorance of reality and the NATURAL world around you. You people are the bane of human existence.
edit on 27-10-2012 by TheLonewolf because: of



posted on Oct, 27 2012 @ 12:19 PM
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reply to post by DelayedChristmas
 

my take on how Jesus can be fully man and fully God:

Greatest I am recommended the book, 'Jesus Wars' to you 10 days ago on the "in the hands of the Romans" thread.
I was wondering if you have read it yet.
I just downloaded the Kindle version of it last night and haven't gotten to far into it yet.
It seems like it should be a good introduction into the general topic of the question of Jesus' nature.
I've studied quite a bit into it over the last few years just reading what I could find available on-line. It is pretty much a hit and miss sort of thing and not that easy to find when you are actually trying to.
edit on 27-10-2012 by jmdewey60 because: add Bible quote: "For the creation eagerly waits for the revelation of the sons of God." Romans 8:19



posted on Oct, 27 2012 @ 12:33 PM
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reply to post by godlover25
 

. . . Jesus is God (YHWH).

Because Jesus is the I Am, I think it is a mistake to make the jump to assuming that makes him the same person labeled as "YHWH" on the old testament.
YHWH seems to be a sort of nominalization of the verb 'to be', and then used as if it was a name.
Jesus was taking it back to the original meaning and using it as a self designation to indicate his role as being the manifestation of the character of God on earth.
There isn't anything to indicate in the New Testament that Jesus was somehow the same person as was described in the stories as YHWH. It does say that in the Sinai wilderness story, Jesus was the rock. I don't think the OT calls the rock in the story, YHWH.



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