Burying the crescent moon / moon god nonsense once and for all.

Its a rather well known fact that Christian fundamentalists have made and continue to make utterly ridiculous claims about Islam being centered around the worship of some Arabian 'moon god'.

Their claim that Allah is a moon god is based on drawing imaginary connections between Islamic symbols and pre-Islamic relics. These ridiculous ideas have always been propagated by fraudsters and charlatans posing as experts on ancient history. These lies are then parroted by Christian internet archaeologists on forums and discussion boards everywhere. (Also, be sure to read the link to know where this moon god nonsense originated from)

The method fundamentalists use in their smear campaign against Islam is rather childlike. What they do is point out superficial similarities between the crescent moon seen on mosques/flags and the ones found on relics dug up in the middle east, and then conclude that both have their origins from the same source...therefore "Allah is a moon god".

What these fundamentalists conveniently leave out is the fact that the crescent moon has been used as a symbols by various cultures outside of the middle east which had nothing to do with Islam. Perhaps they do this on purpose or are simply ignorant of the crescent moon symbol having been used outside of the middle east. Either way, I'll give them the benefit of doubt.

Now lets have a look at some examples of the crescent moon used in cultures that were NOT Islamic.

I'll start with these JEWISH examples of crescent moon usage.

Crescent and six pointed Star from the seal of the Jewish Community of Regensburg, Germany, Middle ages.


Crescent seen on Jewish tombstone in a cemetery in Austria.


Crescent + star seen on some some medallion, apparently Jewish in origin. (Notice 6 pointed stars)


The crescent moon also appeared on Roman and Byzantine currency....









And a few others...
Macedonian
Coin of Juba II of Numidia

So what now, is this evidence that they all had links to the moon god, with whom the crescent+star is associated with?

Furthermore, the Crescent moon and star appears on several European coats of arms and flags...

Flag of Louny (Czech republic)

Coat of arms of Louny (Czech republic)

Coat of Arms of Croatia

Coat of Arms of Portsmouth

Coat of Arms of Olmstead

Coat of Arms of Tarnowski family (Polish nobility)

Coat of Arms of Bosnia (old)

Coat of Arms belonging to some Irish family

Coat of Arms of Illyria (Albania)

Emblem of Kotromanic dynasty (Kosovo)

Are they all moon god worshippers? Or did they develop these crescent moon designs independently with no connection whatsoever to the so called moon god?


Next, we also see that the crescent+star was used on shields of ancient Greeks


Depicted on a vase (Museum of Berlin)

(Re-enactment)

Evidence that they worshipped the moon god?

....we also see it on some Roman art



Evidence that they worshipped the moon god?

Now lets move eastwards....

The crescent moon is a symbol associated with Shiva

Chandra the Hindu moon god

Crescent moon on Sikh ceremonial emblem

Some Chinese moon goddess


So, do all these crescents have something to do with the crescent of the Arabian moon god?


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Apparently, all these fundamentalists seem to be incapable of comprehending the simple fact that different cultures can come up with and use the same symbol, especially when its based off the sun, moon and stars.... you know, those bright shiny things in the sky seen by every human who has ever lived on the planet.

The supposed "proofs" of the Arabian pre-Islamic moon god presented by Christian fundamentalists, are no different from the examples of the crescent moon and star shown in this thread. i.e somebody decided to make a symbol out of the moon. Just because various cultures symbolize the moon for whatever purpose, does not mean they are all connected. So there is no reason to connect Islam with cultures that have used the symbol of the crescent.

My only point is that the crescent moon on Islamic mosques and flags is nothing more than a logo, a symbol of identification, popularized through the centuries. This same crescent moon symbol has been used by several unrelated cultures outside of the middle east. If Christians see no connection between these crescents and the ones seen on the so called Arabian moon god, then there really is no good reason to connect Islam to the so called moon god, which is basically a fabrication of deceitful Christian fundamentalists.

No more ignorance.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

very good thread. it strengthens my believe, that allah, jehova and yahweh is one and the same deity.

The early Muslim community did not really have a symbol. During the time of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), Islamic armies and caravans flew simple solid-colored flags (generally black, green, or white) for identification purposes. In later generations, the Muslim leaders continued to use a simple black, white, or green flag with no markings, writing, or symbolism on it.

It wasn't until the Ottoman Empire that the crescent moon and star became affiliated with the Muslim world. When the Turks conquered Constantinople (Istanbul) in 1453, they adopted the city's existing flag and symbol. Legend holds that the founder of the Ottoman Empire, Osman, had a dream in which the crescent moon stretched from one end of the earth to the other. Taking this as a good omen, he chose to keep the crescent and make it the symbol of his dynasty. There is speculation that the five points on the star represent the five pillars of Islam, but this is pure conjecture. The five points were not standard on the Ottoman flags, and as you will see on the following page, it is still not standard on flags used in the Muslim world today.

Buried?

islam.about.com...

Do all of the pictures represent a crescent moon? What if some are representing eclipses of the Sun or something?

reply to post by DarknStormy

Do all of the pictures represent a crescent moon? What if some are representing eclipses of the Sun or something?

Good point.

Wish I had thought of that earlier while debating Christian fundamentalists who present pictures of the so called Arabian "moon god".

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


You got my city up there.. Portsmouth

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Also it is an emblem for the local football team and considering we are not doing
so well of late i highly doubt any moon gods are responsible...

Not to mention the crescent and the moon reside on every street name sign in the city too.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_and_crescent
To the OP hope this link helps you're cause. Peace..
reply to post by sk0rpi0n

RICHARD THE LIONHEART In 1192 the fiancee and the sister of the English King Richard I Lionheart were shipwrecked on Cyprus and were taken captive by Isaac. In retaliation Richard conquered the island while on his way to Tyre. Isaac was taken prisoner near Cape St. Andreas on the Karpass Peninsula, the northernmost tip of the island. According to tradition, Richard had promised Isaac not to put him into irons, so he kept him prisoner in chains of silver. At this time Richard adopted the star and crescent symbol, which Issac Comnenus had been using, as his own. Isaac was turned over to the Knights of St. John, who kept him imprisoned in Margat near Tripoli until he was released in c. 1194. PORTSMOUTH COAT OF ARMS In 1194 it was King Richard I, Richard the Lionheart, who granted the Town of Portsmouth its first charter. The star and crescent symbol is also present on the seal of William de Longchamp, Bishop of Ely, who as Lord Chancellor, was involved in the in the granting of Portsmouth's charter. It is believed that the Town of Portsmouth adapted the symbol to use as its coat of arms in tribute to King Richard, for his patronage in granting Town status. The Star and Crescent symbol is known to have been used by Mayors of Portsmouth from at least the seventeenth century and probably earlier from the middle ages. The motto 'Heaven's Light Our Guide' was incorporated into the coat of arms in 1929, it is the same motto that was also used by the Order of the Star of India and was used on Indian troopships which regularly travelled between Portsmouth and the East.

www.welcometoportsmouth.co.uk/star%20and%20cresent.html

reply to post by denver22




[sarcasm]
But... but.... I thought Portsmouths coat of arms was irrefutable evidence that the people of Portsmouth worship a pre-Islamic Arabian pagan moon god. There is no way folks on another continent could, on their own, just come up with a crescent moon and star as their symbol?
[/sarcasm]

Thanks for the info.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by denver22

 

[sarcasm]
But... but.... I thought Portsmouths coat of arms was irrefutable evidence that the people of Portsmouth worship a pre-Islamic Arabian pagan moon god. There is no way folks on another continent could, on their own, just come up with a crescent moon and star as their symbol?

[/sarcasm]

Thanks for the info.

LMAO Glad i could throw in my two pounds worth ...
Here op found this

A star (or stars) and crescent featuring in some combination form the basis of symbols widely found across the ancient world, with examples attested from the Eastern Mediterranean and Central Asia.[1] The early Muslim community did not have a symbol. During the time of Muhammad, Islamic armies and caravans flew simple solid-colored flags (generally black, green, or white) for identification purposes. In later generations, the Muslim leaders continued to use a simple black, white, or green flag with no markings, writing, or symbolism on it.[2] During the 19th century, it represented the Ottoman Empire, figuring on the Ottoman flag from 1793. The Ottoman flag of 1844 with a white "Ay-yıldız" (Turkish for star-crescent) on a red background continues to be in use as the flag of the Republic of Turkey. Other successor states of the Ottoman empire also used the symbol, including Libya (1951–1969 and after 2011), Tunisia (1956) and Algeria (1958). The same symbol was used in other national flags introduced during the 20th century, including the flags of Azerbaijan (1918), Pakistan (1947), Malaysia (1948), Mauritania (1959). During the 1950s to 1960s, the symbol was re-interpreted as symbolic of Islam or the Muslim community.[3] By the 1970s, this symbolism was embraced by movements of Arab nationalism or Islamism (even though it was not originally an Arab symbol), such as the proposed Arab Islamic Republic (1974) and the US Nation of Islam (1973).[4]

en.wikipedia.org...

But the crescent and the moon symbol actually pre date islam by several thousand years..:
Also to add the seal of decorations of the moabites of israel round about 1500bc..

Not of islam origins but rather adopted by them especially the ottaman empire..

The method fundamentalists use in their smear campaign against Islam is rather childlike.

Rather apropos dont you think since all of these "religions" are "childlike" in their requirement for belief in silly nonsense.
May as well be arguing whether Santa Claus's slay is red or maroon, or whether the Easter Bunnies coat is blue or pink.

These religions were created by men who had less real knowledge of how reality works than the average modern day fifth grader, you humans need to grow up or be forgot.

Originally posted by icepack
reply to post by sk0rpi0n

 

very good thread. it strengthens my believe, that allah, jehova and yahweh is one and the same deity.

They are not the same.

reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

They are not the same.

Why?
The Koran tells us that Allah did the same exact things as the God of the bible....

- Created the universe in 6 days
- Created Adam, punished him and Eve for eating the fruit
- Guided Noah and the ark
- Guided and inspired the Israelite prophets
- Bestowed special favors on the Israelites
- Sent Jesus to be born of a virgin

Correct if i'm wrong but doesn't Islam prohibit the use of idols? IMO a religious logo which represents the Moon is clearly an idol. The truth is, Islam is no different or any more perfect when it comes to pagan use in the faith. All religions have them. The question is do you embrace it as being ok when you know God doesn't like it.

reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

Correct if i'm wrong but doesn't Islam prohibit the use of idols? IMO a religious logo which represents the Moon is clearly an idol. The true is, Islam is no different or any more perfect when it comes to pagan use in the faith. All religions have them. The question is do embrace it as being ok when you know God doesn't like it.

The muslims live by a concept.... worship the Creator, not His creations. This clearly reveals who the muslims worship.


a religious logo which represents the Moon is clearly an idol
The crescent moon and star are NOT worshipped by muslims.
It is not a depiction of God as christian fundamentalists would have you believe.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

 

They are not the same.

Why?
The Koran tells us that Allah did the same exact things as the God of the bible....

- Created the universe in 6 days
- Created Adam, punished him and Eve for eating the fruit
- Guided Noah and the ark
- Guided and inspired the Israelite prophets
- Bestowed special favors on the Israelites
- Sent Jesus to be born of a virgin

I've read the whole Koran as well as the Hadiths and can tell you that they are not the same. While the Koran does retell some of the stories from the Bible for the most part it contradicts everything that the Bible says.

While the Koran admits that Jesus was born of a virgin and did miracles it rejects the fact Jesus actually died on the cross. According to the Koran it was Judas with the appearance of Jesus who actually died. No offence, but it sounds to me like the god of the Koran has purposely deceived the people into thinking that it was Jesus who died, and let the people live that lie for 622 years. In other words, according to the Koran God purposely allowed the world to be deceived into thinking that Jesus died on the cross, only to come back 600 years later and say "I was just kidding", it was actually Judas who died and Jesus is not the Son of God, but just another prophet. I find that a little far fetched and not in harmony with the God of the Bible.

For hundreds of years, the Ottoman Empire ruled over the Muslim world. After centuries of battle with Christian Europe, it is understandable how the symbols of this empire became linked in people's minds with the faith of Islam as a whole.

Based on this history, many Muslims reject using the crescent moon as a symbol of Islam. The faith of Islam has historically had no symbol, and many refuse to accept what is essentially an ancient pagan icon. It is certainly not in uniform use among Muslims.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

 

Correct if i'm wrong but doesn't Islam prohibit the use of idols? IMO a religious logo which represents the Moon is clearly an idol. The true is, Islam is no different or any more perfect when it comes to pagan use in the faith. All religions have them. The question is do embrace it as being ok when you know God doesn't like it.

The muslims live by a concept.... worship the Creator, not His creations. This clearly reveals who the muslims worship.


a religious logo which represents the Moon is clearly an idol
The crescent moon and star are NOT worshipped by muslims.
It is not a depiction of God as christian fundamentalists would have you believe.

Then they must be blind to their own concept, the Crescent Moon is part of God's Creation, so if the logo shows who they worship then we have a problem.

reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

Then they must be blind to their own concept, the Crescent Moon is part of God's Creation, so if the logo shows who they worship then we have a problem.

Read what I typed earlier.
I said earlier "the crescent moon and star are NOT worshipped by muslims."

The logo does NOT show who they worship.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

 

Then they must be blind to their own concept, the Crescent Moon is part of God's Creation, so if the logo shows who they worship then we have a problem.

Read what I typed earlier.
I said earlier "the crescent moon and star are NOT worshipped by muslims."

The logo does NOT show who they worship.

Then what is the purpose of it?