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Size of a Proton and Electron

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posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 01:28 PM
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reply to post by roguetechie
 


Sound like an entrepreneur. You base your stuff off money, I don't.

If I they can make it, so can I. For those that got them to work, they are afraid to talk due to the threats.

I'm a doer not a talker.

To note, if this device is so efficient and off-the-grid, then why isn't it on the market? You have the schematic, the materials and such, yet no one has built it? Now why is that?

You got to read this, it's really nice.
edit on 23-11-2012 by FreedomCommander because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 01:37 PM
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Do we know everything?

Nope, in my opinion, we have over a million years to learn all this stuff to perfection. When I mean all, I mean all, every bit and byte of information.

Better start now than later.

What was it like back then? about 2,000,000 years ago?
edit on 23-11-2012 by FreedomCommander because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 01:59 PM
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Originally posted by FreedomCommander
To note, if this device is so efficient and off-the-grid, then why isn't it on the market? You have the schematic, the materials and such, yet no one has built it? Now why is that?


Because it does not work...... obviously!



posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 02:01 PM
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reply to post by hellobruce
 


Still waiting on what makes you a master in that field.



posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 04:05 PM
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reply to post by FreedomCommander
 


Actually yes I do base my work off of money since here in the real world it takes money to get things done. As far as why this device hasn't reached the mass market yet, well first off the idea is only a few years old. Second it was thought up by an old retired gentleman from back east who doesn't have a lot of funds to pursue the project. Third off most of the people that SHOULD be interested in stuff like his device which is not only workable but pretty straight forward to build end up chasing chimera's such as the Davey Heater or the Rosemary Ainslie device or any number of other dead ends. Fourth at the heart of the device is a boiler of The inventor's own devising which would require quite a pretty penny to get through all the certifications and etc to make this system something that could be sold at Home Depot.

But make no mistake there are people out there pursuing this technology, and I believe very strongly that it's a viable option. I base this belief off of some very rudimentary proof of concept experiments I've run over the year since I first discovered this technology.

Your attempts to make yourself out to be some sort of unsung folk hero that takes action rather than spending lots of time with all that fiddly stuff like LEARNING, PLANNING, and GETTING GOOD DATA do nothing to help you prove your case!

Further your attempts to insinuate that I am somehow "all about the money" was quite laughable considering that all I did in my post was point out where the system I am working on could provide you with all your heating and electricity needs for somewhere in the neighborhood of 1/3 the cost of a comparable solar installation amortized over a 50 year period.

The reason this makes you look foolish is because ANY TIME you start work on a project you should first do your due diligence and make sure of a few things such as:

1. Is the Concept theoretically workable?

This part requires at the very least a working knowledge of the prior art in the field you are working in, as well
as a grounding in where your device differs in this prior art and what unique challenges this might pose to you

Now that's if you're working in a well established and fairly conventional area. If you are trying to do something
brand new or at the very least pretty unique you also need to do basic experimentation to prove that all of the
various phenomena you need to produce to make a working device are able to be produced reliably first
individually then as an integrated system.

The further out there your concept is the more basic experimentation you're going to have to do. Not only that
but the better you are going to have to be at not just collecting the data you need to assess whether you have
a workable concept but also at interpreting the data once you have it!

2. Now that we have established the concept can in fact be harnessed the way we had planned we must now determine if the resulting device will be economically feasible. AKA will it cost the same or less than what you are intending to replace?

To do this you must first have a pretty good idea of what your device is supposed to do, how much maintenance
it will realistically need, and what working conditions you envision it working in.

Once you have these rough estimates you can start pricing comparable components and systems to get a
general idea of what you'll pay to build your device.

Now that you have a guesstimate of what your device's capabilities, maintenance costs, and basic system
costs are you can now go about finding and researching what the capabilities and costs are of the systems it
will be competing with. Once you have this information you can sit down and realistically compare costs and
see if your system is going to be cost competitive over it's lifetime compared to the stuff it's meant to replace.
This step right here is why when the jet engine was invented the piston engine didn't just stop being made
entirely. Because only in certain fields were the jet engine's capabilities sufficiently superior to the piston
engine to justify their additional cost and complexity.

3. Now that you've established that your device is workable and economically viable you can start looking at what it's going to take to bring said system to life. This includes tools, shop space, outside machining, and time and labor.

There are lots of really cool really workable concepts that could in theory be cost competitive but never get
pursued because the people that want to build them just don't have the capabilities or the cash.


As you can see ... any project should move through several distinct stages before you just get out and start building! And I didn't even include the actual design and fabrication phases in this writeup.



posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 10:47 PM
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reply to post by roguetechie
 




Your attempts to make yourself out to be some sort of unsung folk hero that takes action rather than spending lots of time with all that fiddly stuff like LEARNING, PLANNING, and GETTING GOOD DATA do nothing to help you prove your case!


Hero? No. I need to learn, I need to plan, and I need information else I can't take action. I need those things to prove my case, else there is nothing. But I'm doing it to no one's exceptions, including yours.

Did I learn all this stuff on my own? No, I had help of those who pasted on.

Did I plan all of these drawing? No, They did it before I did.

Did I have the information they had? Before reading, no. After reading, yes.

This is where I'm different from people like you. I read it, I learn it, then I build it. Watch it, test it, modify it. No need to advertise it, or make money off of it. If I did, I would be no better than a thief. For example, the pyramid, built one, tested it, and it works.

If I have the material I use them, regardless if I have the money or not.

Sorry I keep on forgetting, not everyone has access to a machine shop, so forgive me for thinking that people like you are lazy and cowardly. It's the opposite, you are doing your best, focusing on one thing and only one thing, regardless of what other things there are, which acts like a double-edged sword. (Been there)

You might think that the stuff I have shown you are useless trinkets and such, but look around you! (Includes me) We live a throw away society, and I don't like it.

So please excuse me for trying NOT to make it a junk society anymore.
edit on 23-11-2012 by FreedomCommander because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2012 @ 12:19 AM
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reply to post by FreedomCommander
 


That's just it though to make it a nonjunk society we need to give people back their independence for real with meaningful workable and viable technologies that can be understood by the common man.

I've looked into the things you tout and even put my limited money where my mouth is and put experiments together to try and get results....

And when I finally got tired of trying to swim against the flow and "make my own way" by "not believing in the establishment and their need to suppress anything they can't control" and started actually doing my best to gain a concrete understanding of the phenomena I was attempting to work with things magically got better!

When I stopped trying to take the quick easy route and listening to those seductive voices that were promising me that I could take shortcuts and not learn to walk before I tried to run I actually started getting real and measurable results....

I'm not saying overunity is totally impossible I'm not saying there aren't dark horse technologies out there that could blow the doors off what we are using now because I believe they exist and that we'll eventually find them wholeheartedly.

But here's the deal, I'm going to level with you. If it was as simple as connecting off the shelf components in the right combinations we'd already have it. It's as simple as that if any of these technologies were going to pay off we'd see them paying off already.

With all of this said that leaves us in a position where we've got to reach for the fruit which we can realistically expect to grab... and once we have this low hanging fruit and we free up the resources that this will give us as well as the credibility which will help grease the wheels of future endeavors maybe THEN we can start looking at dark horses...

But the bottom line is right now most of us are so far up against it that we can barely breathe....
In that situation a sure thing that's not nearly as glamorous but is well within the bounds of conventional engineering and can be put together by any moderately skilled and sufficiently determined hobbyist is by far the better option.

Now I've shown you a technology that is demonstrated to be workable and on a sound technical basis. You have countered with lots of platitudes some wacky assertions and Youtube videos that are at best inconclusive and at worst downright intentionally misleading.

See the thing is for all of your bluster and bite about all the stuff you've built and you KNOW works ... .I'm not seeing any real meat to your claims... WHERE'S THE BEEF?

For you to blow off what I've shown you and state that it's equivalent to obviously nonworking and some downright deceptive technologies is extremely insulting and fool hardy on your part.



posted on Nov, 24 2012 @ 01:50 AM
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reply to post by roguetechie
 


We both are relying on other's works, are we not?

Are we both not at fault?

You go for the low hanging, I aim higher than that.

More work, more understanding.

The cure for all diseases, is sitting right next to me.

Unbelievably simple, and very easy to use. This is a high hanging fruit. This is what I aim for, to help.

I can thank Hulda Clark for her hard work.

Other things I aim for, all of Tesla's work, every single work that can help. All free of charge.

I use the raw materials and make it myself. If you really say



I've looked into the things you tout and even put my limited money where my mouth is and put experiments together to try and get results....

And when I finally got tired of trying to swim against the flow and "make my own way" by "not believing in the establishment and their need to suppress anything they can't control" and started actually doing my best to gain a concrete understanding of the phenomena I was attempting to work with things magically got better!


Then I question, which one did you do?

Then continuing on



When I stopped trying to take the quick easy route and listening to those seductive voices that were promising me that I could take shortcuts and not learn to walk before I tried to run I actually started getting real and measurable results....

I'm not saying over-unity is totally impossible I'm not saying there aren't dark horse technologies out there that could blow the doors off what we are using now because I believe they exist and that we'll eventually find them wholeheartedly.


Are you saying, you personally give up and passed the torch to someone else? There is a saying "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts absolutely." You give up, they win.

You might have your own reasons of doing so, so I will not delve any deeper.

If your device does work and you get your money, hip-hip-hooray on your part.

However, I question your entire purpose of doing so.

Look around you, your selling sand, I'm picking up the sand. There are others that sell the sand. The sand is energy/electricity. We swim in this sea, just grabbing a hold of it and using it is hard enough as it is.

Many people were killed for what they found. if doing what is right involves dying by your work, then so be it.
At least that is what other's did after they had their work legally stolen from them.
edit on 24-11-2012 by FreedomCommander because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2012 @ 02:20 AM
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First off you are making an awful lot of assumptions about me and my motivations, that are just plain wrong. Second you are completely failing to understand what my position actually is and why it has become that.

Your first misconception is that I'm out to get rich: If I wanted to get rich there is no way I'd be pursuing the development of the friction boiler concept. First off it's already in the public domain, and any improvements I make on the system will also be made public domain, because this project is less about making me money and more about making myself and those I care about free from being held hostage by our dependence on centralized power generation systems that guarantee certain vested interests a controlling hand in the direction society takes! TO be perfectly blunt He who keeps the lights on and the house warm has the ability to exert IMMENSE control over their own destiny or the destiny of others. On top of this there are portions of the Friction boiler system that would require millions in investment and 5 to 10 years of development to bring the system to a point where you could sell it as a turnkey solution at Home Depot. This to me makes it perfect though.

Your second misconception is that I've somehow given up on dreaming the big dreams:
That isn't what I said at all, you couldn't be further from the truth! What I said was I have set aside the naive hope that I can just blunder and stumble my way arsebackward into a major discovery that will change the world without working hard for it!

Your third Misconception is that you are somehow accomplishing more or doing it in a more noble way by believing willy nilly in whatever someone on the internet tells you:

Don't get me wrong I was once in exactly your position doing exactly what you're doing now... but then I grew up.
I came to realize that I was not going to get real results without putting in real work and real skullsweat into understanding as much as I could about the world around me before just getting out there and starting to build!

I'll give you an example of what I'm talking about taken directly from stuff you've championed in this thread. Let's for a minute say Cold Electricity is a real and valid phenomena... Ok you with me so far?

Now the first thing you'll find out when you start researching cold electricity on the internet is that even the guys who have been trying to crack the phenomena for DECADES still have no concrete ability to meter it in any way nor can they:
1: Show you real and tangible results PROVING scientifically that cold electricity is a different phenomena than hot electricity.
2. They cannot prove in any way that for a given expenditure of resources in fuel or battery power or magic fairy farts that "cold electricity" can do more or even an equivalent amount of work to what hot electricity can do!

On top of this even if we assume cold electricity is a real phenomena we can look back at history and do some extrapolations from the initial discovery of electricity to when it was first put to a practical use doing work to benefit humanity in a tangible way and get an idea of how much work and what level of investment would be needed to bring cold electricity out of it's infancy and into a useful thing we can do real work with.

So going by the example of electricity we can see that there was some rudimentary knowledge of electricity as far back as 600 bc and yet the first real electrical devices that did work to make life measurably better could arguably be pegged at 1820 when Michael Faraday Invented the electric motor! so we have a span of a little over 2 thousand years between the initial knowledge of the phenomena to the first practical devices!

Cold electricity, if it's even real, could be said to be at about the stage where we were when they were experimenting with electrostatic charge in alexandria!

I look around me and I don't know about you but the people in my life need relief NOW not in 2000 years hell not in 20 years.... NOW we need help NOW I can't stress this enough!

As I said before for all of your bluster and bite about the stuff you know and the things you've built and done, whenever anyone tries to pin you down and get you to show them YOUR WORK and what YOU'VE DONE you point them to OTHER PEOPLE'S youtube videos....



posted on Nov, 24 2012 @ 11:43 AM
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reply to post by roguetechie
 




So going by the example of electricity we can see that there was some rudimentary knowledge of electricity as far back as 600 bc and yet the first real electrical devices that did work to make life measurably better could arguably be pegged at 1820 when Michael Faraday Invented the electric motor! so we have a span of a little over 2 thousand years between the initial knowledge of the phenomena to the first practical devices!


Knowledge is lost then found again. History is inevitable to repeat itself, even in the areas of technology. Communications back then where in instant back then, if they wanted to communicate with someone, (in theory) just say the name and they are in front of you as a hologram.

Why don't we have that tech now?



I look around me and I don't know about you but the people in my life need relief NOW not in 2000 years hell not in 20 years.... NOW we need help NOW I can't stress this enough!


Okay, I understand your situation. Your in a desperation and your doing your best to get out of it, and your making sure that others are in it as well.



As I said before for all of your bluster and bite about the stuff you know and the things you've built and done, whenever anyone tries to pin you down and get you to show them YOUR WORK and what YOU'VE DONE you point them to OTHER PEOPLE'S youtube videos....


I like my anonymity here. I let others do the talking, I do the walking. Pictures on here are the only way of keeping my identity a secret.

I expose myself, and I'll have some agents knocking on my door for building a device that can help people free of charge.

Once again, I now understand your situation. We all need help, regardless of what we have done.
edit on 24-11-2012 by FreedomCommander because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2012 @ 01:59 PM
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So wait a second... you are trying to help people by building these wonderful "suppressed technologies" yet you can't show anyone your work or tell them how to build what you've supposedly already built?

I'm sorry but that entire assertion has so many flaws and logical holes in it I completely fail to understand how you can even believe the words coming out of your own mouth!

Saying that you've built amazing things but you can't let anyone else see them, use them, or benefit from the knowledge you gained in the process is the equivalent of not just telling your teacher that the dog ate your homework, but instead telling the teacher I CAN'T ACTUALLY SHOW YOU MY HOMEWORK BECAUSE IF I TRY MY DOG WILL EAT IT, BUT REST ASSURED IT'S THERE SITTING AT HOME DONE AND DONE WELL I MIGHT ADD!!!

Beyond that if the stuff you are working on is that secret squirrel that government agents would seize it if it saw the light of day:

A: there wouldn't be plans or even whispers of it's existence on the internet
B: they'd be watching for people like you who claim to already have this technology but not be willing to share it, and they'd come take it from you anyway!
C: Most likely any technology that fits category A and B would not be within the reach of the garage tinkerer.


I've done my best to show you the light and lead a horse to water so to speak. But I can't force you to drink. At the end of the day it's your choice whether or not to continue wasting your time tilting at windmills rather than getting down to business and putting together REAL stuff that can do REAL work and make REAL PEOPLE'S LIVES BETTER!

oh and for the record Cold electricity has essentially no basis in fact, splitting the positive is a joke, the resonant immersion heater has had people trying to replicate it for better than 20 years now with no success, and there's no such thing as Hard and soft electrons.



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 10:54 PM
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reply to post by roguetechie
 


Like I said, we are both at fault.

Me, for calling you stupid.

You, for calling me an naive person.

But here is a quote that both of us have to take into consideration.



"Never utter these words: I do not know this therefore it is false. One must study to know; know to understand; understand to judge" -- Apothegm of Narada


You keep this anger up, where will you be?

Soft particle physics is real and it's linked to a very old physics called ether physics. Tesla was the first to find cold electricity but he didn't know what to call it. Edwin Grey did an extensive research on it, then at the peak of his discovery, his work was taken away.

So who would be better, a Rothschild or a Tesla?






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