The Russian Helicopter That Outperforms The AH64

The Kamov KA-50 attack Helicopter.



This helicopter is among the most advance, heavily armed, and most thoroughly armored rotary wing aircraft in the world. It is highly maneuverable and boasts a highly efficient coaxial main rotor system. It requires no tail rotor to counter act single direction torque that you would find in all US rotary wing aircraft. This is highly advantageous because the tail rotor system tends to use a lot of power and if you lose tail rotor in an AH 64, you die.

This design improves the aerobatics of the aircraft. It can roll, loop, and perform a maneuver called "the funnel" in which it maintains line of sight of it's target while circling it.

It is faster than the AH 64 which has two T700 GE 701D engines producing 1600 shaft horse power.

The KA-50 has 2 twin turboshaft engines producing 2200 SHP per engine. More than enough power to run it's highly advanced avionics suite, comms system, and coaxial rotor system.

By all accounts the US is highly outclassed by this formidable war machine.

and it looks like it will have the radar profile of a barn...

With US over the horizon missile capabilities and stealth helicopters I don't know if Id say "out classed"

Like any weapon system, it is how it is used in concert with everything else. It may be susceptible to ATA or GTA missiles like anything which fly's but there is more to the story.

How and when it gets deployed is a big part of the picture. The helicopter itself does appear formidable and advanced. That in itself changes its potential. The question is how it will be used? The insurgents in Chechnya, Iraq, and A-gan have amply demonstrated there is no need to go head to head to be effective.

My guess is it will be a very reasonably priced piece of equipment down the road to many players. Then the whole idea of how it gets deployed is no longer the sellers business.

Originally posted by projectvxn
This is highly advantageous because the tail rotor system tends to use a lot of power and if you lose tail rotor in an AH 64, you die.

Not necessarily, Helicopter pilots have a neat trick called auto-rotation. It allows you to land without power…though it can be a rough landing.

The KA-50 was the Russians answer to the RAH-66 Comanche, which never saw production as development costs and the change of mission, and the advancement of UAVs, pretty much killed it.

It was a sweet bird, too bad it was never brought on-line.

reply to post by TDawgRex


Auto rotation is not a cure for the loss of the tail rotor. The tail rotors job is to counteract torque by the main rotor. without it the helicopter spins out of control. auto rotations can only be performed within a certain Nr tolerance. The airspeed has to be there, and if the tail rotor is shot off or the very weak driveshaft is severed then the whole concept of an autorotation is worthless.

Secondly even if you pulled off an autorotation you are still going to hit the ground and it is going to make your day bad...I've been in one or two autorotations just in training..I would not want to hit the ground.

Indeed the Comanche was a doomed program from the beginning. we had a carcass of one at Ft. Eustis.

"Insurgents love to hate it"

Haha what a sales pitch.

Very interesting piece of military equipment.

Originally posted by benrl
and it looks like it will have the radar profile of a barn...

With US over the horizon missile capabilities and stealth helicopters I don't know if Id say "out classed"

What stealth helicopters are you talking about?

The blackhawk UH60M, Apache AH64 block 3, or the new CH47F are not stealth. They all have very nice avionics suites but the are not stealth.

Where did you dig this up from? The Ka-50 and Ka-52 have been around for ages.

The twin rotors are unique but the AH-64D Apache is far superior. I've flown both aircraft in highly detailed simulators.
The AH-64D has superior radar, sensors and weapons. The gun on the Ka-50 Ka-52 is fixed not on a rotating turret like the Apache. If I had to pick I would pick the Apache every day of the week.

The other Russian attack helicopter the Mi-28 Havoc is better than the Ka-50 I think. There is nothing that great about the Ka-50. A barrel roll is not very useful in combat and the Apache can do that too.

Attack helicopters are good but other aircraft like the A-10A and F-16C can use cluster munitions on enemy armour and have greater capabilities, speed and range.

Just my personal opinion the apache is far more beautiful helicopter I think the twin rotor system on the Russians heli looks horrible. Also I dunno if its true, but I've seen it in films where a sniper with a 50 cal takes a shot at the rotor and disables the heli. If this is to be true the rotor of the Russians heli looks very vulnerable. I have no speciality in heli technology but if I had a choice I'll stick with the apache

Edited because of my terminal inability to read.

reply to post by Rebroadcast


Edited because of Redbroadcast's terminal condition.

I hear Russia has some really awesome air-air missiles. Can this copter carry those?

There's one thing the apache has going for it. It is a two seater. Flying and performing radar/comm/weapons operations at the same time is a huge task. Having it spread for 2 instead of 1 person is advantageous.

Originally posted by JimTSpock
reply to post by Rebroadcast

 

Edited because of Redbroadcast's terminal condition.

edit on 27-10-2012 by JimTSpock because: (no reason given)

It's a terrible condition

Its a nice aircraft in terms of airframe performance but the avionics package is an antique compared to the AH-64 block 3.

Thats the reason it hasn't made any foreign sales.

Its the same reason the Mi-28 Havok loses out, most recently to india.

reply to post by JimTSpock


The KA 50-2 have since been heavily upgraded and it is still making its' rounds at rotary wing symposiums. If this system is fully employed it would give the US a run for its money.

In my opinion a fully modernized version of the KA would chew up an Apache in short order. The Apache doesnt have the armor to take a hit. The block 3s would certainly stand a chance, but I'm seeing the potential of this airframe.

reply to post by PsykoOps


True but, The Apaches have been aggressively real world combat tested repeatedly over decades. The Ka-50?

Not so much....

Well I don't know how much combat that has seen. That is the final test for any design. Ruskies are in some conflicts thought.
Wiki says it's been in combat against at least Chechen insurgents. Apache on the other hand has been all over the place. I think I'll go and find myself firebirds movie now->

The Kamov KA-50 does have it's advantages. Namely the use of a coaxial main rotor and lack of a tail rotor.

The coaxial rotor spins two separate sets of blades in opposite directions making the helicopter more stable in the air. It also increases the aircraft's lift.

The KA-50 also costs $16 million per unit whereas the AH-64 Apache costs $20 million.

Let's look at power and operational range.

The KA-50 has:
Max Speed: 196 mph
Cruising Speed: 168 mph
Combat Range: 339 miles
Ferry Range: 720 miles
Service Ceiling; 18,000 ft
Rate of Climb: 10 m/s
Max takeoff weight: 23,810 lbs

The AH-64 has:
Max Speed: 182 mph
Cruising Speed: 165 mph
Combat Range: 295 miles
Ferry Range: 1,180 miles
Service Ceiling: 21,000 ft
Rate of Climb: 12.7 m/s
Max takeoff weight: 23,000 lbs

Overall, the two aircraft perform fairly equally. Now lets see the armament:

KA-50:
(1) 30mm cannon w/ 460 rounds
(4) hardpoints

The hardpoints can use gun pods, anti-tank missiles, anti-air missiles, laser guided missiles, unguided rockets, unguided bombs or fuel tanks.

AH-64:
(1) 30mm cannon w/ 1,200 rounds
(4) hardpoints

The hardpoints can also use gun pods, anti-tank missiles, anti-air missiles, laser guided missiles, unguided rockets, unguided bombs or fuel tanks.

Overall, I'd say the AH-64 and the KA-50 are pretty fairly matched in all aspects of operation and performance.

Both choppers perfect for target practice on civilians, which is mostly what they're used for now a days....







Now the only enemy left is Julian Assange and the Bradley Manning. No remember everything is backwards. They're not hero's they're the murdering trators that need to be found and killed! In this brave new Alice in Wonderland world everything is backwards my friend! yes backwards is forwards, and forwards is backwards! That's the new system! So shoot civilians and lock up patriots! hurray horarahh!


oh but wait.... don't watch that...... watch this instead. This is what really happens in a helicopter battle! And we need those choppers to fight those commy ruskies, those evil Iranians and Iraqy's, and afgans!!!